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 Topic: Ex-KimDonesia

 (Read 43925 times)
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  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #60 - November 20, 2009, 12:58 AM
    I thought it was ok.
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #61 - November 20, 2009, 02:40 AM
    Quote from: Omaar Khayaam on November 19, 2009, 11:49 PM
    Isn't there a similar site called islamawarenes.org or islamicawareness.org? Something along those lines anyway. The site attempts to refute the claims made by orientalists. The site is supposed to be a golden oldie for the muslims.


    Islamic Awareness is divided into three parts.  Information for Muslims or others about Islamic sources, challenging orientalist claims, and challenging Christians.  Unlike Answering-Christianity, the people behind IA were fairly well educated, older, and didn't engage in attacks against people / individuals.

    [eta : I thought this site was on hiatus, but they're not ]
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #62 - November 21, 2009, 07:05 AM
    Quote from: ras111 on November 18, 2009, 04:40 PM
    What I thought all along, the people who parade the most are the most insecure...


    Yes I would agree with you...unless they really have something knowledgeable to say about a particular subject. Then I can understand a person speaking out in a really public way.
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #63 - November 21, 2009, 07:07 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on November 18, 2009, 05:46 PM
    (in any case, none of these girls are proadly boasting it, in fact if you watch the videos carefully they struggle to even utter anything about being an ex-muslim.)


    Actually I don't think that was true of Kimdonesia.
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #64 - November 21, 2009, 07:11 AM
    I'm inclined to agree. She seemed fairly confident. Erin (TVG) was obviously having a harder time of it.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #65 - November 21, 2009, 07:14 AM
    Quote from: RIBS on November 19, 2009, 08:15 PM
    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    Welcome to the forum Kim. I am sorry I never heard of you before, but you sound like a nice girl. I am glad you are happy with the conclusion you reached. Whatever that is, it is fine as long as you are happy. yes


    If you heard of her before...what would you have done?
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #66 - November 21, 2009, 07:18 AM
    @ Osmanthus - yes Erin did seem to have more feeling. Hopefully that is indicative of her having more feeling (since I see this a good thing for a human being) and not simply being a better dramatist. But it would appear that she is really wanting to take the time to think more about her decision - hence she has not actually renounced her religion ''yet''.
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #67 - November 21, 2009, 07:24 AM
    Well I had the impression that she had definitely renounced Islam itself, just not the whole concept of theism. Obviously I have no real objection to Kim renouncing Islam either.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #68 - November 23, 2009, 02:41 AM
    To the Muslims here.......Despite Kim leaving Islam...to the people leaving bad messages on youtube about her and such..... NO ONE should insult her, calling her names or saying explicit things to her...it's haram to do so and you're not doing a good job of promoting Islam. Yea, I'm Muslim and disappointed in her..... but I can deal with it and so can you.
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #69 - November 23, 2009, 09:53 AM
    Hello Jasmines, why is it haram to insult her according to islam? Even the Koran insults unbelievers.




      [ 95: 4 ] Certainly We created man in the best make.
      [ 95: 5 ] Then We render him the lowest of the low.
      [ 95: 6 ] Except those who believe and do good, so they shall have a reward never to be cut off.


    And this one:

    Koran 9:73
    Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate.

    Koran 98:1-8
    The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.

    And that one:
    Koran 70:39
    We have created the unbelievers out of base matters.

    So you see Jasmines, those who seem to know the koran better then the Two of us, are dealing rigorously with Kim, since she is the lowest of the low, created from base matters and is clearly the vilest of all creatures.
    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #70 - November 23, 2009, 12:24 PM
    Baal,

    You do not know the Koran better, actually I do not know which of us does but:

    Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate.

    1)You don't take a few words of the quran and justify yourself....read again...... it's saying to you "Prophet,.....". It's telling the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. It DID NOT say "Oh you who believe make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites......." Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was a perfect being. It's not telling you or any other believer to make war. We are imperfect human beings, therefore we are not in the position to say bad things to her.

    2)Quranic Arabic is VERY different spoken Arabic....one word has too many meanings. Many people are not aware of that. If you went to Syria and studied the differences you'd understand better. This is also one of the reasons why we are expected to memorize the quran in Arabic, learn the Arabic language, and only read in arabic in salah and not in some other language interpretation. When you attempt translate Arabic to English or to another language you IMMEDIATELY lose  a lot of the language.

    I've studied under several influential scholars ....and the first thing I was taught was that we don't just take words/lines of the Koran, we take the whole chapter and understand.
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #71 - November 23, 2009, 12:33 PM
    Quote from: jasmines on November 23, 2009, 12:24 PM
    I've studied under several influential scholars ....and the first thing I was taught was that we don't just take words/lines of the Koran, we take the whole chapter and understand.

    Where do i go specifically to get the correct version of the meaning of the Quran & Islam?  Which version should I follow? 
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #72 - November 23, 2009, 12:59 PM
    There is only one version of the Quran (I'm assuming you may still have one it since you were formerly Muslim) and one right way of Islam...if you're really curious, I can PM you the names of the scholars..their works are available over the net and speeches/talks on YouTube..
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #73 - November 23, 2009, 01:00 PM


      [ 95: 4 ] Certainly We created man in the best make.
     
    You know Baal, this one of the many verses that I like use to show my pro-circumcision Muslim friends who pester me to mutilate my boys. If Allah created us in the best form, then why are we modifying Allah's creation? Was there a design error? They go speechless after that.  grin12
    ...
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #74 - November 23, 2009, 01:02 PM
    Quote from: jasmines on November 23, 2009, 12:24 PM

     Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was a perfect being.


    Define what a perfect being is...

    Quote from: jasmines on November 23, 2009, 12:24 PM
    2)Quranic Arabic is VERY different spoken Arabic....one word has too many meanings. Many people are not aware of that. If you went to Syria and studied the differences you'd understand better.



    If it has too many meaning then who are you to say which is the appropriate one.  This clearly leaves a lot of ambiguity and allows anyone to make it mean what ever he wants. 
    Quote from: jasmines on November 23, 2009, 12:24 PM
    This is also one of the reasons why we are expected to memorize the quran in Arabic, learn the Arabic language, and only read in arabic in salah and not in some other language interpretation. When you attempt translate Arabic to English or to another language you IMMEDIATELY lose  a lot of the language.

     

    Rather stupid of Allah to choose such an obscure, vague language to spread his message then

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #75 - November 23, 2009, 01:05 PM
    Quote from: RIBS on November 23, 2009, 01:00 PM
    (Clicky for piccy!)

      [ 95: 4 ] Certainly We created man in the best make.
     
    You know Baal, this one of the many verses that I like use to show my pro-circumcision Muslim friends who pester me to mutilate my boys. If Allah created us in the best form, then why are we modifying Allah's creation? Was there a design error? They go speechless after that.  grin12


    thats is so clever how can anyone argue against that. 
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #76 - November 23, 2009, 01:06 PM
    Quote from: RIBS on November 23, 2009, 01:00 PM
    (Clicky for piccy!)

      [ 95: 4 ] Certainly We created man in the best make.
     
    You know Baal, this one of the many verses that I like use to show my pro-circumcision Muslim friends who pester me to mutilate my boys. If Allah created us in the best form, then why are we modifying Allah's creation? Was there a design error? They go speechless after that.  grin12


    Hardly explains the various defects in the human body, such as the way our spinal cord is not adequate to resist the pressure exerted on it, hence the reason why the vast majority of people end up with back problems.  It also does not say why Allah created genetic diseases such as Huntington's and Cystic Fibrosis...
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #77 - November 23, 2009, 01:24 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on November 23, 2009, 01:06 PM
    Hardly explains the various defects in the human body, such as the way our spinal cord is not adequate to resist the pressure exerted on it, hence the reason why the vast majority of people end up with back problems.  It also does not say why Allah created genetic diseases such as Huntington's and Cystic Fibrosis...


    But Ras, remember I was not speaking with Agnostics or Atheists. They are hardcore Muslims that say circumcision is a must. Then I say, Allah said the contrary. You must have misunderstood the prophet Mohamed. I ask them who circumcised the prophet, and they say no one because he was born circumcised and I say: SEE? We all created circumcised and no need for our intervention.

    Of course if I say: shove your religion into a dark place.... preferably your backside hole, there is no God or at least not a god who is interested if my pee pee is cut or not, then I would be stoned to death and you would hear about me on CNN!
    ...
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #78 - November 23, 2009, 01:26 PM
    Quote from: jasmines on November 23, 2009, 12:59 PM
    There is only one version of the Quran (I'm assuming you may still have one it since you were formerly Muslim) and one right way of Islam...if you're really curious, I can PM you the names of the scholars..their works are available over the net and speeches/talks on YouTube..

    Ive read the quran, it contradicts itself, says bad things and make me depressed following it?  What should I do now?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #79 - November 23, 2009, 01:29 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on November 23, 2009, 01:26 PM
    Ive read the quran, it contradicts itself, says bad things and make me depressed following it?  What should I do now?


    Use the MadLib thread Osmanthus set up for us as an anti-depression fun game!  Afro
    ...
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #80 - November 23, 2009, 01:33 PM
    No, Osmanthus sends us false tidings.  I shall not involve myself with this false idol.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #81 - November 23, 2009, 01:34 PM
    Keep in mind....reading the quran and understanding it are two completely different things.....Anyone can read it...but only few actually take the time to fully study + understand the meaning...just like anyone can write a song but only few can understand how to write a good song that becomes a # 1 hit.
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #82 - November 23, 2009, 01:40 PM
    and you have? yet you sill believe?  did you ever have doubts?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #83 - November 23, 2009, 01:41 PM
    Quote from: RIBS on November 23, 2009, 01:24 PM
    But Ras, remember I was not speaking with Agnostics or Atheists. They are hardcore Muslims that say circumcision is a must. Then I say, Allah said the contrary. You must have misunderstood the prophet Mohamed. I ask them who circumcised the prophet, and they say no one because he was born circumcised and I say: SEE? We all created circumcised and no need for our intervention.

    Of course if I say: shove your religion into a dark place.... preferably your backside hole, there is no God or at least not a god who is interested if my pee pee is cut or not, then I would be stoned to death and you would hear about me on CNN!



    I know ħabibi... I was not trying to counter your arguements at all.   I was simply adding my contribution
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #84 - November 23, 2009, 01:42 PM
    Quote from: jasmines on November 23, 2009, 01:34 PM
    Keep in mind....reading the quran and understanding it are two completely different things.....Anyone can read it...but only few actually take the time to fully study + understand the meaning...


    Muslims agree that it is difficult to understand the Qur'an fully and you need scholars to interpret it and understand it and the laymen have to learn it from the scholars. Myself, and I am sure many non muslims will say that the Qur'an is an ambiguously written book of poetry, which is why scholars take time and effort to interpret it.

    The allmighty has sent a prophet and a revelation to Earth for all of humanity to follow forever until Qiyamah. If they don't follow the revelation and the ways of the prophet, they will burn in hell in the most horrible pain forever and ever and ever. If that was the case, surely God would make it unambiguous and easy for everyone to follow, to give us a fair chance.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #85 - November 23, 2009, 01:43 PM
     
    Quote from: ras111 on November 23, 2009, 01:41 PM

    I know ħabibi... I was not trying to counter your arguements at all.   I was simply adding my contribution



     Afro Afro Afro

    ...
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #86 - November 23, 2009, 01:47 PM
    Quote from: aliadiere on November 23, 2009, 01:42 PM
    If that was the case, surely God would make it unambiguous and easy for everyone to follow, to give us a fair chance.

    You ask to much from him.  He only managed to create the entire universe, every law, every being, every solar system is controlled by him yet he cant write a simple book of instructions that the people he designed are able to understand  Huh?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #87 - November 23, 2009, 01:50 PM
    I am still learning everyday... without good scholars to help me learn and understand, I myself would have left the religion......I don't doubt Islam at all because to me, faith is about believing even if something isn't clear (I came from a christian background)...I'll take the time and effort to research so that makes sense to me....I also study other religions and compare to try to stay open minded.....


    BTW, Ras111, I'll explain afterwards....i'm off to classes now and I don't want to be late.
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #88 - November 23, 2009, 01:52 PM
     
    Quote from: IsLame on November 23, 2009, 01:47 PM
    You ask to much from him.  He only managed to create the entire universe, every law, every being, every solar system is controlled by him yet he cant write a simple book of instructions that the people he designed are able to understand  Huh?


     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    or maybe in sign language? You know what? A universal prophet should be mute and deaf, so that he uses sign language for all to know!
    ...
  • Re: Ex-KimDonesia
     Reply #89 - November 23, 2009, 01:54 PM
    I think Latin would have been a good language to reveal a revelation in 610. It was standardised and unambiguous.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
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