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 Topic: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad

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  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #690 - November 25, 2009, 03:29 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 02:13 AM
    Allat : ow yeah i see, i thought she was talking about 24:31 (sorry for my mistake), "beat (lightly)" really is allowed. If i were a guy and my wife's proven cheat on me, yeah i would slap her (not by beating the crap out of her) , and if my husband cheat on me i have right to threat him with divorce (while he must still support my life until i get a new lover :p).


    So a man is justified in hitting a woman if he thinks she's cheated on him, but a woman can only "threaten" him with a divorce if she thinks the same (or in both cases, if proven)?  Nice view on women and men there. 
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #691 - November 25, 2009, 03:32 AM
    Quote from: allat on November 25, 2009, 03:07 AM
    Why?

    So in families where the woman makes more money or the same amount as her husband, the same rules apply to both then? She can have 4 husbands? She can take male slaves like he's allowed to take female slaves?

    If so, prove where Islam says that.

    If not, prove how that is not a sexist double standard.


    Of course it's not allowed, yes, it could be sexist double standard, but dont you think it makes sense to share 1 man for 4 women ? cos... if im not mistaken, to born a female baby you need connection between 2 same chromosom (XX), while to born a male baby you need 2 different ones (XY). When i was in high school, i learnt about how to work on the formula (but i forget how), and the ratio result is the birth of female babies have more chance than male.

    So yeah, it could be a sexist double standard and there could be a bigger reason for that.

    Quote
    That's nice to know that you don't have a problem with your daughter (if/when you have one) being beneath a man. Being less worthy than a man in every way.

    Also, you support domestic violence like it's some small thing. Just shows your ignorance. It's a big problem and Islam allows it. Women like you support it. That's why the state of widespread domestic violence and "honour" killings among Muslims. Some other cultures have those too, but nowhere near the extent as in Islam.


    As far as i know, domestic law defines violance as in actions like beating that cause bleed/bruises/broken bones but not "slapping lightly/pinching/etc". Of course i could be wrong cos the law's different in each country.
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #692 - November 25, 2009, 03:34 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 02:22 AM
    There's no prohibition said in Quran that women cant slap a cheating husband (there's only right for us to ask him divorce while he must still support our living) , so you want to slap your man cos he's cheating on you, why not ? You can even ask him a divorce at once and still get money from him. 4:34 is only restriction for man, that he (husband) can slap us lightly only as last resort if we've gone too far.


    Is that what you think a just, loving marriage is? I guess if you follow the Quran you must think so, but it's so unhealthy, so sad.  He can slap us lightly if we've gone too far... it's a woman's fault.  He just did what he had to do.  Yuck.
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #693 - November 25, 2009, 03:39 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 03:32 AM
    Of course it's not allowed, yes, it could be sexist double standard,


    It is a sexist double standard.

    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 03:32 AM
    but dont you think it makes sense to share 1 man for 4 women ?


    Sure. And so does 1 woman to have 4 lovers/husbands. And it makes sense for both men and women to have 1 or multiple lovers/partners of the same sex as them.

    But it's only the heterosexual male that's actually given such rights in Islam and nobody else.

    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 03:32 AM
    cos... if im not mistaken, to born a female baby you need connection between 2 same chromosom (XX), while to born a male baby you need 2 different ones (XY). When i was in high school, i learnt about how to work on the formula (but i forget how), and the ratio result is the birth of female babies have more chance than male.


    Okaayyyyy... What does any of that have to do with males having multiple partners but females not?

    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 03:32 AM
    So yeah, it could be a sexist double standard and there could be a bigger reason for that.


    And what reason is that, you think?

    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 03:32 AM
    As far as i know, domestic law defines violance as in actions like beating that cause bleed/bruises/broken bones but not "slapping lightly/pinching/etc". Of course i could be wrong cos the law's different in each country.


    We're not talking about countries' domestic violence laws. We're talking about Islam's. Islam explicitly allows males to be violent towards their female partners. Sexism at its most obvious. Women like you allow it to go on even though it's meant to keep you like slaves to the men who have made and control that religion. You may like being a slave to your husband, other women don't and Islam has no room for a woman who doesn't want to be a slave.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #694 - November 25, 2009, 03:40 AM
    Again, could you please indicate where it says lightly? You keep ignoring my posts. And its not abuse if it causes pain but no physical indication of beating? There`s a wide degree of things you could do to someone before you left a mark.  

    Also, where is the connection between polygamy and chromosomes? That makes no sense. It`s not OK to have to share your husband with three other women just because the quran says so.
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #695 - November 25, 2009, 03:41 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 02:58 AM
    well.. in the family, man must be "the boss"


    Why?  These attitudes give institutional approval to psychopathic, narcissistic, and abusive men to degrade, denigrate, abuse, rape, and mentally and financially batter their wives, while ensuring that the wife has little or no recourse or defense from her own society and its institutions.  'I'm the boss, allah said so!'  I've seen it so many times in the Muslim community.  

    Quote
    And if he's really gone too far i could just slap him (but id think twice cos he's allowed to slap me back..


    Is that how adults handle people who anger them, who go too far? Just hit 'em?  When someone pisses you off, irritates you - just hit them.  

    Quote
    It's not like when there's a problem husband/wife are slapping each other, when there's a problem the first thing must be done is by talking about it first. It sounds make sense for me on how things should work, so i have no problem with it.


    I'm sorry, I really am, that you think this is okay.  I really, really hope that you don't marry one of the types of men mentioned above, because I've seen how some of these guys run their wives down in the name of Islam, and how little support they get from their own families, their shaykhs, etc.  
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #696 - November 25, 2009, 03:48 AM
    Manat : not all marriage walk smoothly, somebody can cheat on his/her partner, that could just happen, and if talking cant give a resolution, then i can slap or either divorce him. Its just reality. So dont cheat on each other :p

    Angel : Im reading 4:34 right now and it says "beat them lightly". In Yusuf Ali translation it says so either, "As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly)". Which translation do you read ?
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #697 - November 25, 2009, 03:57 AM
    Quote from: allat on November 25, 2009, 03:39 AM

    Okaayyyyy... What does any of that have to do with males having multiple partners but females not?

    And what reason is that, you think?


    I think it has to do with women-men population ratio in the future (less men, more women), and to prevent homosexualism.

    Quote
    We're not talking about countries' domestic violence laws. We're talking about Islam's. Islam explicitly allows males to be violent towards their female partners. Sexism at its most obvious. Women like you allow it to go on even though it's meant to keep you like slaves to the men who have made and control that religion. You may like being a slave to your husband, other women don't and Islam has no room for a woman who doesn't want to be a slave.


    I can divorce my husband is he's way too far, and i still be supported; i can work & more successful than my husband; i can refuse to sleep with my husband on my menstruation days; i still can go out with my friends, What's your definition of "slave" really ? That me, as a Muslim woman, doesnt have right in my family as a wife ?
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #698 - November 25, 2009, 03:59 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 03:57 AM
    I think it has to do with women-men population ratio in the future (less men, more women), and to prevent homosexualism.


    Ahhh here we go.

    What's wrong with "homosexualism", gatty?

    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 03:57 AM
    What's your definition of "slave" really ? That me, as a Muslim woman, doesnt have right in my family as a wife ?


    Read over my posts here again, maybe you'll understand. I don't want to repeat things I've already written.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #699 - November 25, 2009, 04:02 AM
    Allah : o-o, thats our differences. Im not pro homosexualism, i still think human should stay in their fitrah, men as men, women as women.. and therefore any "glitch" in universe should be fixed (a "man" with more female hormones should be changed as "woman", and otherwise).
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #700 - November 25, 2009, 04:03 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 03:48 AM
    Manat : not all marriage walk smoothly, somebody can cheat on his/her partner, that could just happen, and if talking cant give a resolution, then i can slap or either divorce him. Its just reality. So dont cheat on each other :p

    Angel : Im reading 4:34 right now and it says "beat them lightly". In Yusuf Ali translation it says so either, "As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly)". Which translation do you read ?


    Do you honestly think slapping your partner would work. Cuz odds are they`ll just keep cheating if they want to. Slapping never leads to anything good.

    In the ARABIC where does it say lightly. THings in brackets are put in by the translator. Most translators do not put in (lightly). The ones who do, do it to soften the verse to make it less unappealing or because they`re ashamed. In the Arabic it doesnt say beath them lightly, which means Allah is giving men the right to beat wives as hard as they want. All this miswak or (lightly) bullshit comes from men not Allah. I read the translation that doesnt try to fool me with pointless apologetics.
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #701 - November 25, 2009, 04:05 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 04:02 AM
    Allah : o-o, thats our differences. Im not pro homosexualism, i still think human should stay in their fitrah, men as men, women as women.. and therefore any "glitch" in universe should be fixed (a "man" with more female hormones should be changed as "woman", and otherwise).


    So, all homosexuals should get sex changes, is that what you're saying? Will you pay for them? What about before sex change operations were available, what were they to do? What if they don't want to get such a major, invasive surgery? What if they like being the gender they are in, but are simply not attracted to people of the opposite gender? Then what?
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #702 - November 25, 2009, 04:10 AM
    Gatty doesn't seem to understand that homosexuals are born that way. It is not a life choice. She is implying that hetereosexual women will start becoming lesbians if they can't find a man because there are not enough of them and if no one shares their husband.

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #703 - November 25, 2009, 04:12 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 03:57 AM
    I think it has to do with women-men population ratio in the future (less men, more women), and to prevent homosexualism.

    I can divorce my husband is he's way too far, and i still be supported; i can work & more successful than my husband; i can refuse to sleep with my husband on my menstruation days; i still can go out with my friends, What's your definition of "slave" really ? That me, as a Muslim woman, doesnt have right in my family as a wife ?


    You dont have the right to say no to sex during menstruation. He is not allowed to sleep with you then. So you cant say its your right to say no when hes clearly prohibited. Muslimahs dont have the right to say no to sex. Al Baqarah 223 ensures that. And about divorce- he can divorce you whenever he wants. The quran doesnt allow a woman to divorce her husband. A woman has to go through sharia court (useless POS) to divorce her hubby and must prove cruelty or neglect or something. Also, its at the judge`s discretion to give you money or not so you may not be supported.

    Also, do you really need a book or religion to tell you that you can work go out with friends(even though it says that nowhere)? I would hope as a wife, a Muslimah gets more than that.

    Yeah, theres no male to female ratio problem. That right there is some Zakir Naik bullshit.
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #704 - November 25, 2009, 04:14 AM
    Quote
    So, all homosexuals should get sex changes, is that what you're saying? Will you pay for them? What about before sex change operations were available, what were they to do? What if they don't want to get such a major, invasive surgery? What if they like being the gender they are in, but are simply not attracted to people of the opposite gender? Then what?


    No, but if im a billionaire then why not ? Im not sure that "simply not attracted" is merely biological "glitch" but could be a social construction created by the environment.. in that case, surgery's not the answer but mindset change... I think the government should pay for their surgery for those people with "glitches".
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #705 - November 25, 2009, 04:16 AM
    Quote from: gatty on November 25, 2009, 04:14 AM
    No, but if im a billionaire then why not ? Im not sure that "simply not attracted" is merely biological "glitch" but could be a social construction created by the environment.. in that case, surgery's not the answer but mindset change... I think the government should pay for their surgery for those people with "glitches".


    Can you change your "mindset" and become attracted to women? Is that something you can turn on and off? What makes you think a homosexual's "mindset" can be changed?
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #706 - November 25, 2009, 04:16 AM
    Inshallah Gatty will become an atheist one day.  Tongue
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #707 - November 25, 2009, 04:18 AM
    Do you know how offended homosexual people would be if you actually suggested to them that they have glitches that need fixing?
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #708 - November 25, 2009, 04:18 AM
    "therefore any "glitch" in universe should be fixed"

    How can a believer in God suggest  that his work should be fixed?

    If Allah knows best then we should leave his work alone. I'm talking about his indisputable creations like people of all kinds.
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #709 - November 25, 2009, 04:19 AM
    Quote from: Kafirist on November 25, 2009, 04:16 AM
    Inshallah Gatty will become an atheist one day.  Tongue


    Honestly, why bother? I dont really think there`s a point to this thread anymore.
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #710 - November 25, 2009, 04:20 AM
    Quote from: Angel54 on November 25, 2009, 04:19 AM
    Honestly, why bother? I dont really think there`s a point to this thread anymore.


    As soon as gatty tells us how she turned off her inner homosexual, so that she can enlighten everyone else on how it can be done, yeah.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #711 - November 25, 2009, 04:26 AM
    Homosexuality cant exist without Allah, so why would God make people gay and then want them to fix themselves, which they couldn`t do anyway. If he finds it so damn repulsive and evil, then dont make people gay.
    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #712 - November 25, 2009, 04:37 AM
    Quote from: Angel54 on November 25, 2009, 04:12 AM
    You dont have the right to say no to sex during menstruation. He is not allowed to sleep with you then. So you cant say its your right to say no when hes clearly prohibited. Muslimahs dont have the right to say no to sex. Al Baqarah 223 ensures that. And about divorce- he can divorce you whenever he wants. The quran doesnt allow a woman to divorce her husband. A woman has to go through sharia court (useless POS) to divorce her hubby and must prove cruelty or neglect or something. Also, its at the judge`s discretion to give you money or not so you may not be supported.


    I dont think 223 forbid women to say no when we're tired or ill. And isnt woman divorcing a man is mentioned in Al Baqarah 229 ?


    Quote
    Also, do you really need a book or religion to tell you that you can work go out with friends(even though it says that nowhere)? I would hope as a wife, a Muslimah gets more than that.

    well if something isnt prohibited then why cant we ?

    Quote
    Yeah, theres no male to female ratio problem. That right there is some Zakir Naik bullshit.

    I dont say there is now, i believe there COULD BE that problem exist because the fact is based on chromosome formula the chance of female babies' being born is larger than male babies.
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #713 - November 25, 2009, 04:39 AM
    Quote from: allat on November 25, 2009, 04:16 AM
    Can you change your "mindset" and become attracted to women? Is that something you can turn on and off? What makes you think a homosexual's "mindset" can be changed?


    I think i can if i mingle with the "right" community for it, and i think ill be able to construct my mindset from attracted to male to be attracted to female, afterall it's not biological factor.
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #714 - November 25, 2009, 04:44 AM
    Quote from: Submissive Bob on November 25, 2009, 04:18 AM
    "therefore any "glitch" in universe should be fixed"

    How can a believer in God suggest  that his work should be fixed?

    If Allah knows best then we should leave his work alone. I'm talking about his indisputable creations like people of all kinds.


    All i know we just have to get back to fitrah, in every "glitch" there must be a reason for it. IF the creator wants to just solely break his contract (which i think it would be unjust), then it could make a gay chromosome (other than X or Y) so any baby who's born gay should live its future by staying to its fitrah as gay.
    http://www.quran-islam.org
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #715 - November 25, 2009, 04:51 AM
    gatty, you need to go and read and learn about sex, sexuality, sexual orientation, homosexuality from a real, scientific perspective. Until then, you're going to keep embarassing yourself with the ignorance you're displaying.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #716 - November 25, 2009, 05:14 AM
    "IF the creator wants to just solely break his contract "

    Contract? There's a contract? Did you read the fine print?

    I am Allah. I will create gays if I damn well feel like it.
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #717 - November 25, 2009, 06:23 AM
    Quote
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson


    Lol, Mike Tyson is so crazy
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #718 - November 25, 2009, 06:27 AM
    Remember that movie The Last Dragon?
    That movie was awesome. Sho'Nuff!



    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad
     Reply #719 - November 25, 2009, 06:45 AM
    Quote from: Submissive Bob on November 25, 2009, 05:14 AM
    "IF the creator wants to just solely break his contract "

    Contract? There's a contract? Did you read the fine print?

    I am Allah. I will create gays if I damn well feel like it.


    The contract as in meaning "whats naturally exist As Is", like.. men as men, women as women, gravitation, etc and i believe some located in some verse in Quran (subjectively of course in my opinion verses which make sense to my custom).  -I want to talk about jin but i guess none of you believe me anyway-

    Sure, i think the creator can make gays if he want to after our era's done (new world after the judgement day).
    http://www.quran-islam.org
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