Omar, I am starting to feel uncomfortable here as it requires me to come very close to the blame game in replying to some of you and I don't wish to do so, firstly because I am not someone who does that (on a personal level) but to illustrate ideas and to win a point it is easy to lapse into it online.
I also don't go through every thread on this forum. I'm only interested in that first hurdle, because all theistic religions rest on that assumption. (God) I'm certainly not here to score points, because that in itself is futile. Ahmed Deedat and Zakir Naik do that and I know it doesn't help. I prefer healthy discussions from which both parties benefit.
To be honest I don't think it is a good forum but will give it a stab.
The participants make the forum good. Yes it has it's short comings, but the people here have been kind and welcoming to a fellow apostate, unlike the abysmal reception I get on the islamic forums. I only wish there were more muslims who would come to this forum to have an intelligent discussion, rather than make ad-homs and hurl insults.
If I really feel my ego is taking over I will quit.
Don't worry, I'm familiar with such things obstructing the eye of the rooh my friend.
Anyway it does seem firstly you are well read and that you are sincere in your seeking.
Thank You. I try my best. I wish I could read more. There are never enough books to read.
The only obvious point to criticise in you last message is that you sought answers in logic and debate. Is that possibly your weakness.
I know what you are trying to get at here. There is nothing wrong with logic or reason. If we were to abandon it, then we might as well accept any old mumbo-jumbo, such as tarrot cards, crystal balls and other flim-flam. I'm not into debating, it's not my style. But there is nothing wrong with pointing out logical fallacies in someones argument. I don't think that is a weakness, it should help the person you are speaking to and show them the inconsistency in the argument. Logic and reason has served us well in other fields till now, so why can't it help us here? Besides I have friends who are members of HT and use rational discussion to arrive at their beliefs, without any other aid.
sophistry shows us that any argument if presented well enough can overcome another and truth falls by the wayside.
Certainly, much of theology and theodicy is built on top of such sophistry and dare I say, so is much of mystical discussion.
Islam is wholistic and personal spiritual development comes about through actions not words
Baha'ism/Jainism/Buddhism is wholistic and personal spiritual development comes about through actions not words
Do you see how this sentence sounds once you step outside your worldview for 30 seconds. It tells us nothing about the truth of the claim though. It just tells us about your willingness to believe or faith.
One can become a better person and humanist without the spiritual assumptions and many have done so. On the flipside many through faith have committed some sheer acts of horror. But lets not go there, because that discussion needs a whole new thread.
Topic: hello, do you encourage muslims to chat with you