I read the first 9 pages and glanced thru the rest. Let me just tell you that if you like this sort of stuff then you will love Ziauddin Sardar's work.
Nobody here is claiming that Islam is worthless or that IC failed to deliver anything of use. What I am claiming though is that cultures and societies that base their values and philosophy on dogmas
are effectively shooting themselves in the foot. The problem with Islam (Christianity, Judaism, ...) is that it is based on immutable dogma. And that defies freedom of thought that is essential for Enlightenment.
Read this passage carefully again: CLR James, like most anti-imperialists over the past two centuries, recognised that all progressive politics were rooted in the "Western tradition", and in particular in the ideas of reason, progress, humanism and universalism that emerged out of the Enlightenment. The scientific method, democratic politics, and the concept of universal values - these are palpably better concepts than those that existed previously, or those that exist now in other political or cultural traditions. Not because Europeans are a superior people, but because out of the Renaissance, the Enlightenment and the scientific revolution flowed superior ideas.
Many of the ideas we call "Western" are in fact universal, laying the basis for greater human flourishing. The catch is not to reject "Western" ideas but to reclaim the best of them for all of humanity.
People are potentially equal but cultures are not, because if they were the very idea of social and moral progress would be meaningless. It would be far better if everyone had the chance to live in the type of society or culture that best promoted human advancement.
But of course it is false.
This is exactly the point I am trying to make. The Japanese changed and went against their dogma because that was the rational thing to do.
You also mentioned China as an example. The main ingredient that China is missing is freedom.
Same can be said for Amish society. Do you think that Amish parents in general encourage critical thinking among their children? Or do they do their best to implement the "Amish" meme into their children?
Let me ask you a blunt question? Would you like to live like an Amish? I wouldn't. Because the society I live in allows me to develop my potentials way better then Amish society ever could.
People are potentially equal but cultures are not, because if they were the very idea of social and moral progress would be meaningless. It would be far better if everyone had the chance to live in the type of society or culture that best promoted human advancement.
But that isn't going to happen is it. Why? Because people love their dogmas. And that is the main difference. I try not to have any. That is why I never had any problems defining my identity. My identity is fluid rather then static. I try and take the best from different cultures. Because I have freedom to do so. I don't have to play a role that "my society" is trying to impose on me because that is simply not required.
And this in a way is the core issue. Most Muslims think that change is going to strip them of their identity. And that to me this is mind-boggling narrow-mindedness.
Nobody here is claiming that Islam is worthless or that IC failed to deliver anything of use. *ahem*
*AHEM*
"This is exactly the point I am trying to make. The Japanese changed and went against their dogma because that was the rational thing to do. "
The kind of dogma you hint to, does not exist. It would have to suppress every form of change . Physical one too. As for Japan, you know that it's a country famous for its alliance between modern technology and traditional culture.
"Same can be said for Amish society. Do you think that Amish parents in general encourage critical thinking among their children? Or do they do their best to implement the "Amish" meme into their children?
Let me ask you a blunt question? Would you like to live like an Amish? I wouldn't. Because the society I live in allows me to develop my potentials way better then Amish society ever could."
I'm studying CompSci. I have tabs like Hacker News, Slashdot and proggit open. You know my response. But your opinion nor my opinion does not matter. Sustainability is an highly sought quality nowadays. The amish society is sustainable. Modern society is not. Does that make the amish society superior? So let me restate my point : Culture cannot be totally ordered.
"My identity is fluid rather then static" Is this statement itself Fluid? eh ! But enough mind game, my point is that wathever your conception of life you still need a dogma, or system value, even if it is reduced to "no dogma" paradoxically. "I try and take the best from different culture" hehe that's funny because, if you take value A somewhere you could end up with a new system value that cannot would have not accepted value A in the first place... you know what I'm hinting there
.
As for:
" I don't have to play a role that "my society" is trying to impose on me because that is simply not required" Well you are a British citizen. You have a role in this society, defined by Laws and Rights, wich,
except. even will lawyer find some part obscure or
counter-intuitive*. Does that mean you are a slave completely defined by it?
As for the CLR james quote, I partially agree with him but I'm not in the mood to make a detailed response
PS:
Note to myself, that I estimate worth of being made public:
1)Been a lurker for too long. Trying to organize my thought to make those post show me that my current knowledge is quite hazy. It lacks a certain kind of clarity and unity. Too confuse , too instinctive. I must be fact based and not opininon-based.
2)I must stop to respond to quote like I'm commenting code, really. That's inelegant. That must be a consequence of 1).
*
counter-intuitivity is something I feel is an important idea. why not developping it now? see 1).
Topic: Islam's arrested development.