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Theme Changer

 Topic: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'

 (Read 6516 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     OP - November 26, 2009, 10:53 PM

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1229760/Its-Barbie-burka-World-famous-doll-gets-makeover-hammer-50th-anniversary.html

    Quote
    It's Barbie in a burkha: World-famous doll gets a makeover to go under the hammer for 50th anniversary

    One of the world's most famous children's toys, Barbie, has been given a makeover - wearing a burkha.

    Wearing the traditional Islamic dress, the iconic doll is going undercover for a charity auction in connection with Sotheby's for Save The Children.

    More than 500 Barbies went on show yesterday at the Salone dei Cinquecento, in Florence, Italy.

    Makers Mattel are backing the exhibition which is the work of Italian designer Eliana Lorena.





    Quote
    The company director of Laird Assessors from The Wirral, Cheshire, said: 'Bring it on Burkha Barbie, I think this is a great idea.

    'I think this is really important for girls, wherever they are from they should have the opportunity to play with a Barbie that they feel represents them.

    'I know Barbie was something seen as bad before as an image for girls, but in actual fact the message with Barbie for women is you can be whatever you want to be.

    'I have a Barbie in a wheelchair that was only out for six weeks.'

    The mum-of-two's own Barbie collection is set to be displayed at London's Victoria and Albert Museum in 2012.

    Barbie was first launched in March 1959 by American businesswoman Ruth Handler. The doll was joined by her long-term boyfriend Ken in 1961.

    Rosie Shannon, from Save the Children, said all the proceeds from the auction will go to the charity.

    She said: 'We are delighted Sotheby's and the designer chose to auction the burka Barbie dolls for our charity.'

    The money will go towards the Rewrite the Future campaign which helps millions of children around the world effected by conflict.


    I am a pagan worshiper of love: the creed of Muslims I do not need

    - Amir Khusro
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #1 - November 26, 2009, 11:00 PM

    Wow, just wow.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #2 - November 26, 2009, 11:01 PM


    /I think this is really important for girls, wherever they are from they should have the opportunity to play with a Barbie that they feel represents them./

    Ahhh... capitalism and identity politics make good fuck buddies, don't they?

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #3 - November 27, 2009, 02:29 AM

    Another story you expected to see from The Onion, but was sadly true.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #4 - November 27, 2009, 06:24 AM

    Yeah but the headline is a bit sensational.  It's all Mattel and not the artist or the charity, who are the ones who  made it and are auctioning it at an event that Mattel is supporting (probably by donating the dolls).  You know, it sounds more like 'creeping shariah' that way.   

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #5 - November 27, 2009, 07:24 AM

    Stones sold separately.  Cheesy

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #6 - November 27, 2009, 07:43 AM

    Is there a matching Ken Doll with his eyes averted/planted permanently on his own feet?  whistling2

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #7 - November 27, 2009, 09:57 AM

    You know, I can see an advantage in this. I mean Barbie dolls are seriously freaky looking things. A burqa is an improvement. bunny

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #8 - November 27, 2009, 10:32 AM

    Is there a matching Ken Doll with his eyes averted/planted permanently on his own feet?  whistling2


    He could do witha beard but he's on the right


    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #9 - November 27, 2009, 03:59 PM

    Is there a matching Ken Doll with his eyes averted/planted permanently on his own feet?  whistling2


     Cheesy

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #10 - November 27, 2009, 09:51 PM

    Yeah but the headline is a bit sensational.  It's all Mattel and not the artist or the charity, who are the ones who  made it and are auctioning it at an event that Mattel is supporting (probably by donating the dolls).  You know, it sounds more like 'creeping shariah' that way.   


    Sorry about that. Personally I feel Mattel should have raised at least some sort of objection to their product being used like this. Their approval legitimizes the burka as an acceptable form of self-expression, and ignores the fact that in many societies women are forced into these oppressive body bags against their will.

    The burka is all about suppressing individualism and I fail to see how a young girl's identity could be represented by one.

    I am a pagan worshiper of love: the creed of Muslims I do not need

    - Amir Khusro
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #11 - November 27, 2009, 10:07 PM

    The Barbie doll is itself a symbol of repression of women. It represents the anorexic, boob-implanted, ribs-removed, hairless, mindless personality-less and totally unrealistic image of femininity that girls internalize from media and social pressures all around them. By placing that symbol within a burka, they've only doubled what's already a disgusting form of female brainwashing. Now this has become about legitimizing BOTH women's unrealistic expectations of their own bodies and about religious purity that tries to remove all sexuality from females or at least aims to cage female sexuality.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #12 - November 27, 2009, 11:16 PM

    The Barbie doll is itself a symbol of repression of women. It represents the anorexic, boob-implanted, ribs-removed, hairless, mindless personality-less and totally unrealistic image of femininity that girls internalize from media and social pressures all around them. By placing that symbol within a burka, they've only doubled what's already a disgusting form of female brainwashing. Now this has become about legitimizing BOTH women's unrealistic expectations of their own bodies and about religious purity that tries to remove all sexuality from females or at least aims to cage female sexuality.


    Is it?  Can't say that it caused any of my female relatives to go anorexic or feel unsure about themselves for one.  They played with barbies as kids, among other things..  They seem quite confident of themselves when I talk to them..

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #13 - November 27, 2009, 11:49 PM

    Is it?  Can't say that it caused any of my female relatives to go anorexic or feel unsure about themselves for one.  They played with barbies as kids, among other things..  They seem quite confident of themselves when I talk to them..


    Like I said, it's representative but it's not the only thing that programs unrealistic images of femininity into the minds of girls, and of boys. All over the media, and through most cultures, most images of femininity are not representative of the reality of girls' lives and women's lives and bodies. Perhaps you should ask your female relatives what they learned from the larger culture about their own bodies, how much of their own bodies are considered just not good enough to be acceptable, how they are supposed to look, what they are supposed to have and not have out of what is natural in their bodies. This doesn't mean that women aren't confident, or atleast appear to be, they are human and have dignity and even though many do internalize confining ideas of femininity, they could and do continue to operate in the world.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #14 - November 28, 2009, 12:04 AM

    Like I said, it's representative but it's not the only thing that programs unrealistic images of femininity into the minds of girls, and of boys. All over the media, and through most cultures, most images of femininity are not representative of the reality of girls' lives and women's lives and bodies. Perhaps you should ask your female relatives what they learned from the larger culture about their own bodies, how much of their own bodies are considered just not good enough to be acceptable, how they are supposed to look, what they are supposed to have and not have out of what is natural in their bodies. This doesn't mean that women aren't confident, or atleast appear to be, they are human and have dignity and even though many do internalize confining ideas of femininity, they could and do continue to operate in the world.


    Well they are all keen on maintaining a nice figure and looking good, but that's not because they feel that they are not good enough.  It has to do with pride, they enjoy doing it actually as much as they enjoy dressing smartly, because it makes them feel good, they are not really doing it for anyone...  if that's what you are referring to.  Other then that they didn't have just the 'larger culture' to teach them things...  

    And I don't think it has devalued femininity is my eyes either.  I for one wouldn't really stick around with a soulless artificial person for long.

    I used to play with an action man as a kid, he was large and had a well built figure.  Should I start complaining as well because it does not reflect the reality of all blokes?  I for one do not have bulging biceps.  I wouldn't mind having them but I don't feel ashamed either just because I don't have them..




    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #15 - November 28, 2009, 12:13 AM

    Well they are all keen on maintaining a nice figure and looking good, but that's not because they feel that they are not good enough.  It has to do with pride, they enjoy doing it actually as much as they enjoy dressing smartly, because it makes them feel good, they are not really doing it for anyone...  if that's what you are referring to.  Other then that they didn't have just the 'larger culture' to teach them things... 

    I used to play with an action man as a kid, he was large and had a well built figure.  Should I start complaining as well because it does not reflect the reality of all blokes?  I for one do not have bulging biceps.  I wouldn't mind having them but I don't feel ashamed either just because I don't have them..


    Oh no, a woman dares to challenge the status quo! She must stop *complaining*!  Roll Eyes

    I'm not talking about taking care of one's health. Eating healthy and natural things, moving and doing cardio, having stamina, being strong physically, all good things to do for one's self.

    But if you think women (and men to a lesser extent) are not pressured to look (and act) in certain ways to be "acceptable", to be a certain weight, to have hair in some places but not in others, to have boobs of a certain size and not smaller, to have legs of a certain size, to wear uncomfortable clothes, heels, makeup, to pluck, shave, to never look "old", to hide their "imperfections", then you are deluding yourself.

    Yes lots of boys play with action figures as children. Lots of girls do too. When boys play with dolls and when girls play with tanks, it's looked down upon. As well, girls' toys are in large part geared towards "looking good" and playing the housewife. It's a fact, look up the toys in any toy store and you'll see. Boys' toys are usually limited to military toys (to breed soldiers). That doesn't mean every boy likes military toys and every girl likes being subject to the virgin/whore complex. Do some research / self-education on this and don't just always go by your personal experience. If you want to have an educated discussion, that is.

    By the way, do you ever wonder how much time you spend defending the status quo and why?

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #16 - November 28, 2009, 12:28 AM

    Oh no, a woman dares to challenge the status quo! She must stop *complaining*!  Roll Eyes



    Or perhaps its more a case of  one making an issue out of a non issue.. and I simply asked you how arrived to that conclusion when other people didn't arrive to that...



    But if you think women (and men to a lesser extent) are not pressured to look (and act) in certain ways to be "acceptable", to be a certain weight, to have hair in some places but not in others, to have boobs of a certain size and not smaller, to have legs of a certain size, to wear uncomfortable clothes, heels, makeup, to pluck, shave, to never look "old", to hide their "imperfections", then you are deluding yourself.


    Never said that those pressures were not there... did I?  The thing is that not all woman feel intimidated by them.  Quite a lot of girls that I know don't.   Yes I agree that consumerism is starting to have some nasty effects but this is just a toy. A toy is always going to be made in an idealistic way..  



    Yes lots of boys play with action figures as children. Lots of girls do too. When boys play with dolls and when girls play with tanks, it's looked down upon. As well, girls' toys are in large part geared towards "looking good" and playing the housewife. It's a fact, look up the toys in any toy store and you'll see. Boys' toys are usually limited to military toys (to breed soldiers). That doesn't mean every boy likes military toys and every girl likes being subject to the virgin/whore complex. Do some research / self-education on this and don't just always go by your personal experience. If you want to have an educated discussion, that is.



    Oh yes to breed soldiers. that must be the reason  Roll Eyes  I wonder how we all didn't end up joining the army here...  Not every boy likes military toys and not every girl likes being subject to the virgin/whore complex.  But the truth is that the majority of kids like those toys, otherwise they wouldn't be buying them.  And I do believe that it is not all due to advertising and subliminal messaging.   Dolls and toy guns have always been traditional toys

    By the way, do you ever wonder how much time you spend defending the status quo and why?


    Because its not necessarily as bad as you portray it to be.  Just because you were at one extreme end you do not have to swing to the other end

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #17 - November 28, 2009, 12:37 AM

    Or perhaps its more a case of making an issue out of a non issue.. and I simply asked you how arrived to that conclusion when other people didn't arrive to that...


    You do not get to tell other people what is and is not an issue that bothers them in their life. Especially those people who have been marginalized in any way. You can try and you will be challenged for your assumptions that just because things have been pretty okay for you, that means other people don't have the right to question those things.

    Never said that those pressures were not there... did I?  The thing is that not all woman feel intimidated by them.  Quite a lot of girls that I know don't.   Yes I agree that consumerism is starting to have some nasty effects but this is just a toy. A toy is always going to be made in an idealistic way.. 


    Who said girls are intimidated by them? Consumerism is a larger problem. What I've pointed out in my earlier post is the specific ways that consumption of toys and popular imagery affects our psychological makeup and how we see the world and ourselves.

    Oh yes to breed soldiers. that must be the reason  Roll Eyes  I wonder how we all didn't end up joining the army here... 


    So? Does every girl who liked barbies as a kid grow up to be a beauty queen? What is your point. I'm talking psychology and you're talking just your own personal experience.

    But the truth is that kids like those toys, otherwise they wouldn't be buying them. 


    Yes, that's the mantra among advertisers. So what? Just because there are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, nobody should criticize Islam because well other people must like it or they wouldn't be buying into it?

    And I do believe that it is not all due to advertising and subliminal messaging.   


    I never said it's all advertising. Why don't you read over my posts again and try and understand what I'm saying before commenting on what you think I'm saying.

    Dolls and toy guns have always been traditional toys


    No they have not. And not in the ways we are used to seeing them now, marketed along gender lines. Like I said, do your research first.

    Because its not necessarily as bad as you portray it to be.  Just because you were in one extreme you do not swing to the other end


    Maybe it's not so bad for you, doesn't mean it's all hunky dory for others. It is narcissistic to think that just because I wasn't beaten by my partner, that people who are should just shut up about it. Similarly, you tend to defend the status quo when it's your status quo, but you have no problem challenging what is the status quo of other people. If you can't look honestly and critically at your own stand, then your credibility when it comes to those you like to criticize is shot.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #18 - November 28, 2009, 01:26 AM

    You do not get to tell other people what is and is not an issue that bothers them in their life. Especially those people who have been marginalized in any way. You can try and you will be challenged for your assumptions that just because things have been pretty okay for you, that means other people don't have the right to question those things.


    Likewise you should not appoint yourself as spokesperson for all persons of your gender either.  Perhaps people have been marginalised for those reasons and perhaps there is more to the story as well....  who are we to say?  Question as much as you want, but kindly do not try to speak for everybody.

    Who said girls are intimidated by them? Consumerism is a larger problem. What I've pointed out in my earlier post is the specific ways that consumption of toys and popular imagery affects our psychological makeup and how we see the world and ourselves.


     toys and other stuff are always going to be made in such a way that they visual the perceptions of what beauty is for that particular society.  For some, thin bodies could be considered as beautiful, for others a large body was associated with beauty and health.  And very often the artists tend to exaggerate when making those images and emphasise on certain things.   It is only natural.   The marginalization essentially is not really because of the toys themselves, it will still take place even if the toys are changed. .

    So? Does every girl who liked barbies as a kid grow up to be a beauty queen? What is your point. I'm talking psychology and you're talking just your own personal experience.


    My point was that your comment about 'breeding soldiers' was rather stupid....  They were sold to us because we liked them and not other toys.  Simple as that.  It is quite normal for boys to like those kinds of toys, that is why they are traditional.


    Yes, that's the mantra among advertisers. So what? Just because there are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, nobody should criticize Islam because well other people must like it or they wouldn't be buying into it?


    No said that you cannot criticise.  Unlike in Islam you have the right to buy other toys more adapted to your tastes and what you perceive to be morally correct.

    No they have not. And not in the ways we are used to seeing them now, marketed along gender lines. Like I said, do your research first.


    Haven't they?  I even recall visiting an old toy museum and noticing that toys for boys and girls were also different centuries ago...

    Maybe it's not so bad for you, doesn't mean it's all hunky dory for others.


    And vice versa... no one said that you cannot complain about it.  I simply defended the status quo I know because it wasn't bad for me,  remember I come from a different society and therefore I have different perspectives from you.  I am not being a narcissist by challenging you back either.  I may also have faced similar problems and yet I could have found a different solution.  Still when I challange the status quo, I always speak for myself and not for others because I don't know how other perceive it.  If they have the same opinions then they are free to join me and the strength will be known by our numbers.


    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #19 - November 28, 2009, 01:39 AM

    Likewise you should not appoint yourself as spokesperson for all persons of your gender either.  Perhaps people have been marginalised for those reasons and perhaps there is more to the story as well....  who are we to say?  Question as much as you want, but kindly do not try to speak for everybody.


    Who am I to say? I am a woman, an educated woman who has studied the history and manifestations of oppression in many forms, including oppression of women by men and women, as well as the history of the Catholic Church and the ways it has oppressed and has been oppressed. That's what education does: makes you see larger perspectives outside of the narrow one you may have from your own experience. And so, I have not claimed to be the "spokesperson" for all persons of my gender, but you on the other hand have claimed that your personal experience applies to everyone, including those who are not even of your own gender, and that anyone with a different personal experience or a different perspective on human behaviour ought to just shut up because that's not *your* personal experience. Do you not see how many Muslims do the same thing? Why would you want to use the same vacuous tactics as those you claim to criticize? Why defend oppressive ideologies and tactics which you have to try and minimize to even show that they are just benign?

    Haven't certain images and perceptions of aesthetic beauty always been idealised by people?  You only need to look at the statues of the ancient Greeks to see that is nothing and will continue long after we are gone.


    Again, have you done any research or are you simply speculating/imagining/deducing?
    Here's some info about how body images are affected by culture and media and how they've changed over time:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/6481962/Body-Image
    http://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/uploads/file/The%20Impact%20of%20Media%20Images%20on%20Body%20Image%20and%20Behaviours%206%20Nov%281%29.pdf
    http://ap.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/30/3/257
    http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/5238.html

    My point was that your comment about 'breeding soldiers' was rather stupid....


    You are again equating larger issues with your own personal experience and that is quite stupid. There's a giant, complex world outside of your own personal lived experience, and the way to find out about it is to educate yourself.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/08/eveningnews/main672455.shtml
    http://www.suffolk.edu/39107.html
    http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/news/2004/06/63911
    http://www.truthout.org/article/us-military-recruits-children

    No said that you cannot criticise.  Unlike in Islam you have the right to buy other toys more adapted to your tastes and what you perceive to be morally correct.


    That's not what Muslims will tell you. They too believe they choose to be moral. They also think nobody should criticise their status quo - especially those of them who perceive that the status quo benefits them. Why are they wrong and you are right?

    Haven't they?  I even recall visiting an old toy museum and noticing that toys for boys and girls were also different centuries ago...


    Toys have always been around but they have changed quite a lot. Mostly, military toys have been around since the beginning of European Colonialism, is it so hard to understand why?

    Some info here:
    http://www3.hants.gov.uk/museum/childhood-collections/toys.htm
    http://www.kented.org.uk/NGFL/subjects/history/qca/toys.htm
    http://www.woodentoys-shop.com/toy-history-toys-games.php3


    And vice versa... no one said that you cannot complain about it.  I simply defended the status quo I know because it wasn't bad for me,  


    Those who have been privileged do not get to tell those have been marginalized in any way what they can or can not "complain" about. To you it's complaining, to others it's challenging the status quo. Why do you go around complaining about Islam? It works for many other people, doesn't it?

    remember I come from a different society and therefore I have different perspectives from you.  


    Same goes for everyone. We are all unique with unique perspectives. Does that mean you should not talk about Islam or Muslims? If you get to criticize Islam, why don't others get to criticize Catholicism or sexism?

    I am not being a narcissist by challenging you back either.  I may also have faced similar problems and yet I could have found a different solution.  


    So, it would be okay to tell someone who got beat up by their partner to not talk about the prevalence of domestic violence? Simply because *I* could have "found a different solution"?

    Still when I change the status quo, I always speak for myself and not for others because I don't know how other perceive it.  If they have the same opinions then they are free to join me and the strength will be known by our numbers.


    That's a privilege you have because you have not been oppressed the way that many others are. Please go and read some works by Frantz Fannon or Paulo Friere, what you are essentially saying could be applied to saying that the organizations like the CEMB should not exist because Maryam Namazie doesn't speak for anyone else. You apply double standards, perpetuating the oppression of those who are not in the same privileged positions as you, and you will be challenged on them.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #20 - November 28, 2009, 02:50 AM

    Who am I to say? I am a woman, an educated woman who has studied the history and manifestations of oppression in many forms, including oppression of women by men and women, as well as the history of the Catholic Church and the ways it has oppressed and has been oppressed. That's what education does: makes you see larger perspectives outside of the narrow one you may have from your own experience


    Did you?... You have your own background and experiences and other people who may also be as educated as you are may have theirs.....   Bear in mind that history is generally written by people and based on their perceptions and feelings as well.  Which is why I chose a more science based education...  I never tried to downplay your experiences either..


    And so, I have not claimed to be the "spokesperson" for all persons of my gender, but you on the other hand have claimed that your personal experience applies to everyone


    As far as I know I only asked you how you have reached a certain conclusion when other people do not seem to see it that way and they happen to be educated women like you as well.  

    Do you not see how many Muslims do the same thing? Why would you want to use the same vacuous tactics as those you claim to criticize? Why defend oppressive ideologies and tactics which you have to try and minimize to even show that they are just benign?


    How am I using vacuous tactics?  I simply you asked why it is specifically repression of women and how it has demeaned femininity in the eyes of boys,  terms which involves other people apart from yourself.  I did not condemn or threaten you.  I simply stated my opinions.  

    Again, have you done any research or are you simply speculating/imagining/deducing?
    Here's some info about how body images are affected by culture and media and how they've changed over time:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/6481962/Body-Image
    http://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/uploads/file/The%20Impact%20of%20Media%20Images%20on%20Body%20Image%20and%20Behaviours%206%20Nov%281%29.pdf
    http://ap.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/30/3/257
    http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/5238.html

    You are again equating larger issues with your own personal experience and that is quite stupid. There's a giant, complex world outside of your own personal lived experience, and the way to find out about it is to educate yourself.


    Of course they've changed over time... and they will keep changing as well.  I told you that in my previous post.  This is absolutely nothing new.  Even the ancient Greeks did this stuff.  When the society's perceptions of beauty change so will the barbie.  The barbie is just a product.  And even then then you would not have removed marginalisation and insecurity.  It will just take place against a different kind of people.  




    Oh you've discovered that now?  I bet even the Romans did it.  The truth is that most boys generally are attracted by action toys, be it soldier figures or fast cars.  Still they are merely a promotion and nothing more.  It is rather obvious that the army will try to use this.  It's been happening throughout human history.  And it will continue happening long after you and me are dust.  Other organisations also do that, not just the army. Kids will still play at soldiers whether they have army toys or not.  My dad used to pretend that a plastic pipe was anti aircraft gun as a child.

    That's not what Muslims will tell you. They too believe they choose to be moral. They also think nobody should criticise their status quo - especially those of them who perceive that the status quo benefits them. Why are they wrong and you are right?


    I never said that they are wrong..  If they think it benefits them, then let them be.   They want to run around in burqas and  have religious law in their society, then good for them.  As long as they don't affect me then I'm quite ok with it....  I challenge them when they try to get me to live like them and believe what they believe otherwise they don't bother me.


    Toys have always been around but they have changed quite a lot. Mostly, military toys have been around since the beginning of European Colonialism, is it so hard to understand why?


    Roman children also played with wooden swords.  It didn't just happen during colonial times.  Yes I know why. The toys simply reflected situations and events in societies of those days.  It wasn't just military toys that they had.  Not everyone became a soldier or suffered of marginalization because of them either.  What's wrong with military toys?  

    Those who have been privileged do not get to tell those have been marginalized in any way what they can or can not "complain" about. To you it's complaining, to others it's challenging the status quo. Why do you go around complaining about Islam? It works for many other people, doesn't it?


    In fact I don't go around complaining about Islam...  

    Same goes for everyone. We are all unique with unique perspectives. Does that mean you should not talk about Islam or Muslims? If you get to criticize Islam, why don't others get to criticize Catholicism or sexism?


    No told you not to criticise...  I don't have problems with other people criticising the church or sexism either...  I have no love for either of them especially the latter ( as you seem to have conveniently forgotten by the way).   I do hope that you are not implying anything and giving me labels just because I do not share your identity and have dared contradict you.

    So, it would be okay to tell someone who got beat up by their partner to not talk about the prevalence of domestic violence? Simply because *I* could have "found a different solution"?


    Not at all

    That's a privilege you have because you have not been oppressed the way that many others are. Please go and read some works by Frantz Fannon or Paulo Friere, what you are essentially saying could be applied to saying that the organizations like the CEMB should not exist because Maryam Namazie doesn't speak for anyone else. You apply double standards, perpetuating the oppression of those who are not in the same privileged positions as you, and you will be challenged on them.


    Not at all I am simply saying that you shouldn't portray your opinion as the general situation.  By all means create lobby and support groups if you feel that something is wrong, ensure that you are able to live your life the way you want to live it and that other who also share your views have the liberty to do the same, but don't state your views as if they apply to everybody that was my point.  

    I was not as privileged as you seem to think that I am either by the way.   I also had my own hurdles.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #21 - November 28, 2009, 03:13 AM

    To be quite honest, most girls don't even feel Barbie further pressures us to look a certain way. She was just a doll that I played with and threw away once puberty hit and went on to big girl stuff. If anything, most girls who aspire to be like Barbie is because she has the hot guy, big ass house, tons of clothes, cars etc. Not because she has giant breast, shiny blonde hair and sparkling blue eyes.

    I seriously don't find slapping a burka or a hijab on Barbie would make her anymore popular play toy - since most young girls today don't play with Barbie (this is just my observation).
  • Re: Mattel unveils the 'Burka Barbie'
     Reply #22 - November 28, 2009, 03:58 AM

    I remember when I was a little kid I used go to my sis' barbies when she wasn't around and unclothe them. And then just stare at her nipple-less breasts and tell myself "one day, one day, I will have a girl who can rotate her torso 360 degrees, inshallah".

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

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