Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Lights on the way
by akay
Today at 06:36 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
Yesterday at 05:41 PM

Dutch elections
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 10:11 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 08:46 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
November 13, 2024, 05:18 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
November 07, 2024, 09:56 AM

Do humans have needed kno...
November 04, 2024, 03:51 AM

The origins of Judaism
by zeca
November 02, 2024, 12:56 PM

New Britain
October 30, 2024, 08:34 PM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
October 22, 2024, 09:05 PM

Tariq Ramadan Accused of ...
September 11, 2024, 01:37 PM

France Muslims were in d...
September 05, 2024, 03:21 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: The Incredible Human Journey

 (Read 8519 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Incredible Human Journey
     OP - December 07, 2009, 09:50 PM

    What an absolutely fantastic show. Very much recommended. And I've only seen 2 episodes out of 5 total.

    Now to the crux of my post. How in the world did I deny this for so long? I grew up in Europe, the out of Africa theory was never new to  me. The ancestors. Theory of Evolution. None of it was new. But I never paid attention to it. It's bizarre. I consider my self to be pretty intelligent, certainly average or above average intelligence. Enough at least to make it through life and university. But anytime this subject would arise I would ignore it. All the cave paintings across the worlds, all the artifacts, the obviousness of the evolution of technology, hunter/gatherers , farmers, cities etc. I ignored it because I had to. It did not comply with Adam and Eve. Its that simple.

    Yet nobody has proved Adam & Eve to be real. It's all in a book from the desert that depicts a geocentric universe, amongst other things. This is what we have to prove with Adam and Eve:

    That Adam was created after all creatures.
    That Eve was created from his Rib.
    They were cast out of heaven and somehow ended up on Earth.
    They had two sons, somehow these two sons had wives. One of them killed the other.

    And out of this family we have the billions of people today and the billions before.

    They don't say where these people came from. Or when.

    And there is no proof.

    And this is a creationism story in Islam

    When facing a mountain of facts disproving this creationism story what choice does one have but to shut down? I mean just opening up to the realization of how we actually came about has today shaken the foundations of my faith. I think the edifice is crumbling. My objection with my religion before was out of historical, moral, rational and scientific mindset, but I was only dealing with the Quran and Hadiths. I hadn't even considered this. And now I am moving on to Theory of Evolution (finally, I can intellectually stimulate myself and grow without feeling guilty)

    Is this not crazy? I am fucking mad, this is why we're in the fucking swamps of human endeavors. We are focused on jinns and shaitans and god knows what, entering a room with you right foot and the rest of the world is moving on. We are still here talking about the Ark of the Covenant, Noah's Ark and Adam and Eve. While the Kuffars have traveled to the moon, found our genetic ancestry, and provided us with online porn. Verily I am indebted to you O Pagans and People of the Book.
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #1 - December 07, 2009, 09:55 PM

    Welcome to the real world, fellow rational thinker... 

    Dawkins is right when he says that the world is far more interesting when the blinkers and veils of religion are taken off.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #2 - December 07, 2009, 10:00 PM

    While the Kuffars have traveled to the moon, found our genetic ancestry, and provided us with online porn.


    I seriously love you.

     Cheesy

    But it is shocking when you realize the full extent of your own ignorance. Evolution was like my apple in the garden of eden. The true knowledge of human origins is the most powerful and beautiful rebuttal of Islamic bullshit you will ever find. History and the natural world is so much bigger than anything some petty desert dipshits could have ever imagined.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #3 - December 07, 2009, 10:11 PM

    BlackDog- what made you watch it?  Its absolutely brilliant, one of the best documentaries I saw in 2009. If anyone has not already seen it its here

    here's the book from the series

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Incredible-Human-Journey-Alice-Roberts/dp/0747598398/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252838361&sr=8-1

    Here is a youtube link to part of it - the series demonstrates how we evolved from apes and moved around the globe to the Americas, Europe etc and the series is broken down by continent..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geKb7OEYUvk

    I like her too - she pretty much sums up my type of woman, if you have seen the series you will know why


    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #4 - December 07, 2009, 10:16 PM

    btw dont stop watching, the next 3 episodes are just as good and absorbing..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #5 - December 07, 2009, 10:25 PM

    @ras111
    Agreed. And I can finally read Dawkins, which I incidentally am doing. Currently reading "Greatest Show on Earth". Very nice read so far.

    @Kafirist
    hahaha Cheesy
    Agreed. The historical and natural world is beautiful and amazing.


    @Islame
    Actually, it was you Cheesy I read a post where you recommended it and I had to watch it.

    And I agree, she is beautiful. Fantastic green eyes.
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #6 - December 07, 2009, 10:33 PM

    @Islame
    Actually, it was you Cheesy I read a post where you recommended it and I had to watch it.

    And I agree, she is beautiful. Fantastic green eyes.

    If you like that then you might have the same taste as me.  Take a look at my youtube channel in my sig, and have a look at the youtube videos favourited.

    These are some of the best..

    http://www.youtube.com/user/ExMuslimUK#p/f/46/wupToqz1e2g

    www.youtube.com/user/ExMuslimUK#p/f/59/XaL7CkQaQpU

    http://www.youtube.com/user/ExMuslimUK#p/f/53/kAIpRRZvnJg

    http://www.youtube.com/user/ExMuslimUK#p/f/52/DvRPbsXBVBo


    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #7 - December 07, 2009, 10:39 PM

    Good points BlackDog. If one takes the islamic account of Adam and Eve and the creation story to be literally true, doesn't evolution technically disporve Islam?

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #8 - December 07, 2009, 10:43 PM

    Why?  Couldnt Adam & Eve could have been the first human apes?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #9 - December 07, 2009, 10:49 PM

    The first human apes probably numbered at least a few hundred. At least. Evolution doesn't just pop up in one specific couple. lol

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #10 - December 07, 2009, 10:51 PM

    Welcome to the world of science  Wink
    This was kinda exactly my impression once I actually understood our evolution.
    I suggest you watch Cosmos by Carl Sagan if you haven't yet. It is mainly about cosmology but covers a multitude of subjects including evolution. It's a truly wonderful series, I strongly recommend it. I specially liked his narration.
    It's also quite cheap. For 18 GBP you get 13 1-hour episodes of one of the greatest scientific series.
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cosmos-DVD/dp/B0027UY8CW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1260225989&sr=1-1

    And before someone says it, no I don't work for a marketing company, just recommending something  Cheesy

    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #11 - December 07, 2009, 11:10 PM

    Why?  Couldnt Adam & Eve could have been the first human apes?

    Well, kinda. But there is a verse which say
    [95:4] "We created man in the best design."
    Surely having a different design now means that our ancestors had the better one and that our design sucks now.

    Not to mention that natural selection doesn't happen overnight, which means there isn't a 'first' actually.

    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #12 - December 07, 2009, 11:17 PM

    its just that its not a clear cut 'open & shut' case - thats why its not one of the first arguments I would use..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #13 - December 07, 2009, 11:40 PM

    Well Islam says that Adam was a 90 foot giant and so were his offspring. You cannot reconcile that with evolution.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #14 - December 07, 2009, 11:44 PM

    why not?  heard of genetic mutation?  you could argue its not physically possible, but these are religionists remember.  They believe the world animal & human population fit on noah's arc, so its again its not one of the first arguments i would use..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #15 - December 07, 2009, 11:45 PM

    Even that reference isn't needed. There were no 2 individuals who were the first humans, period.

    So the Adam and Eve story is bullshit. The only recourse for a scientifically minded Muslim is to simply accept the story as metaphorical about the beginning of human self-awareness and the rise of moral questions in the first humans. Thats how I explained it to myself back in my liberal muslim days.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #16 - December 07, 2009, 11:52 PM

    Even that reference isn't needed. There were no 2 individuals who were the first humans, period.

     Huh? ok - let me play devils advocate.   

    How do you know?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #17 - December 07, 2009, 11:53 PM

    Even that reference isn't needed. There were no 2 individuals who were the first humans, period.

    So the Adam and Eve story is bullshit. The only recourse for a scientifically minded Muslim is to simply accept the story as metaphorical about the beginning of human self-awareness and the rise of moral questions in the first humans. Thats how I explained it to myself back in my liberal muslim days.


    +1

    Most Jews and Christians do this as well. If the Adam and Eve story was perfectly compatible with modern science, not many people would come up with the bullshit excuse that its metaphorical.

    Islame, why can't you just accept that the Adam and Eve story is BS?

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #18 - December 08, 2009, 12:02 AM

    Islame, why can't you just accept that the Adam and Eve story is BS?

    I don't think he is saying it could be true. He just says it is not the best argument to use when debating a Muslim.

    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #19 - December 08, 2009, 12:05 AM

    I don't think he is saying it could be true. He just says it is not the best argument to use when debating a Muslim.

    Ohhh I see I see. Thanks for the clarification. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer  thnkyu

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #20 - December 08, 2009, 12:12 AM

    Lol at cool canadian - you thought I bought into the Adam & Eve story  mysmilie_977  I am so embarrassed. 

    Logic & science based arguments are not the best ones to use with people who believe in an invisible creator.  Ones targeted at unravelling whatever is sellotaping them to their faith are what I think works best.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #21 - December 08, 2009, 12:47 AM

    How do you know?


    Umm science? Evolution? Demographics? Population dynamics?

    A species that consists of 2 mates is considered basically extinct since it's not a large enough population base to propagate a species - especially considering the inbred retard babies that would result from all the sibling fucking. So the original ancestor of humans must have been a large enough population cluster to become the size we are now. I'm not an evolutionary expert, more an enthusiast, so a more knowledgable person can explain why there is no way the homo sapien population could have been 2 people at any time.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #22 - December 08, 2009, 12:50 AM

    I thought humans could all be traced back to one woman? Scientists have dubbed her as 'Mitochondrial Eve'
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #23 - December 08, 2009, 12:53 AM

    Really? Am I that scientifically ignorant?

    Is this what you're talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve ??

    I guess I could be wrong then, but I was under the impression evolution occurs to a cluster not individuals. But this is the great thing about not having faith. I can admit I'm wrong if new facts come up. Maybe a bit of humbling of the pride, but no hellfire!

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #24 - December 08, 2009, 12:57 AM

    They can, but that doesn't mean she was the only woman around then, but is just the most recent common female ancestor of humans. Our most recent common female ancestor lived between 82000 and 134000 years ago, and our most recent common male ancestor lived between 60,000 and 90,000!

    It doesn't mean that the population arose from just 2 individuals, how could it when they lived at completely different times?! It just means that is the most recent common ancestor.

    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #25 - December 08, 2009, 12:57 AM

    I don't know how new species start so if anyone could shed some light on the issue that would be nice.

    And yes kafirist, that is what I'm on about.
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #26 - December 08, 2009, 01:19 AM

    I'm checking it out now:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mRa9ICp9oY

    Good shit. Will probably download.. erm.. buy it. Inshallah


    EDIT: Yeah she's smokin in that smart sorta way.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #27 - December 08, 2009, 02:55 AM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvLWpJcsEOs


    This video will refute all of you kuffar! lol, jk. Well here is a sheikhs opinion on evolution. grin12

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #28 - December 08, 2009, 03:55 AM

    Wow Yusuf Estes is a complete imbecile!

    I'm on the Asia episode btw. Talking about the Chinese might be a separate branch altogether.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: The Incredible Human Journey
     Reply #29 - December 08, 2009, 03:58 AM

    I absolutely love this lady, she's so respectful and nice when she questions the old chinese anthropologist about his theories.  Afro

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »