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Theme Changer

 Topic: Was Mohamed rich?

 (Read 8615 times)
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  • Was Mohamed rich?
     OP - December 09, 2009, 08:29 AM

    I have always been told he gave all of his money to the poor. And lived as a poor man?

    Any proof of this?

    Counter-arguments?

    Please discuss Smiley

    From what I have heard, he usually lived in the mosque. Which is strange, usually in the hadiths you read about him staying at one of his wives' houses.

    Plus he received 20% of the booty, that was his cut. But the question is what can he can he have possibly spent it on? Bribery? War-material? Please provide with proof for or against.
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #1 - December 09, 2009, 08:44 AM

    Muhammad died with very little posessions according to the Islamic sources.
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #2 - December 09, 2009, 12:56 PM

    I don't think Muhammad was necessarily interested in Money.

    He was interested in becoming more God like. In fact he becomes God.

    When Muhammad started off he proclaimed that he was mere mortal and only speaks what God commands and that he is a Gods servant.

    Then when he gains power. He starts to share power with God.

    When he says "When God and Muhammad have deciced on a matter then believers must obey".

    Then God becomes Muhammads servant

    "Believers don't enter muhammad house without his permission"

    And then finally he becomes God.

    "Obeying Muhammad is same as Obeying God".

    So muhammad wasn't after money. He was after Power...a special sort of power...power to be God...









    Challenge All Ideologies but don't Hate People.
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #3 - December 09, 2009, 01:00 PM

    where is that quote from:

    "Obeying Muhammad is same as Obeying God".
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #4 - December 09, 2009, 01:08 PM

    I have always been told he gave all of his money to the poor. And lived as a poor man?

    Any proof of this?

    Counter-arguments?

    Please discuss Smiley

    From what I have heard, he usually lived in the mosque. Which is strange, usually in the hadiths you read about him staying at one of his wives' houses.

    Plus he received 20% of the booty, that was his cut. But the question is what can he can he have possibly spent it on? Bribery? War-material? Please provide with proof for or against.



    Muhammad didn't give all his money to the poor, he also happily bribed chiefs of tribes with money to get them to accept Islam.

    Sahih Bukhari 4:55:558
    Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet said, "I have been made victorious with As-Saba (i.e. an easterly wind) and the people of 'Ad were destroyed by Ad-Dabur (i.e. a westerly wind)." Narrated Abu Said: Ali sent a piece of gold to the Prophet who distributed it among four persons: Al-Aqra' bin Habis Al-Hanzali from the tribe of Mujashi, 'Uyaina bin Badr Al-Fazari, Zaid At-Ta'i who belonged to (the tribe of) Bani Nahban, and 'Alqama bin Ulatha Al-'Amir who belonged to (the tribe of) Bani Kilab. So the Quraish and the Ansar became angry and said, "He (i.e. the Prophet, ) gives the chief of Najd and does not give us." The Prophet said, "I give them) so as to attract their hearts (to Islam)." Then a man with sunken eyes, prominent checks, a raised forehead, a thick beard and a shaven head, came (in front of the Prophet ) and said, "Be afraid of Allah, O Muhammad!" The Prophet ' said "Who would obey Allah if I disobeyed Him? (Is it fair that) Allah has trusted all the people of the earth to me while, you do not trust me?" Somebody who, I think was Khalid bin Al-Walid, requested the Prophet to let him chop that man's head off, but he prevented him. When the man left, the Prophet said, "Among the off-spring of this man will be some who will recite the Qur'an but the Qur'an will not reach beyond their throats (i.e. they will recite like parrots and will not understand it nor act on it), and they will renegade from the religion as an arrow goes through the game's body. They will kill the Muslims but will not disturb the idolaters. If I should live up to their time' I will kill them as the people of 'Ad were killed (i.e. I will kill all of them)."

    Sahih Bukhari 4:53:374
    Narrated Anas: The Prophet said, "I give to Quraish people in order to let them adhere to Islam, for they are near to their life of Ignorance (i.e. they have newly embraced Islam and it is still not strong in their hearts."

    Ibn Ishaq:594
    The Apostle gave gifts to those whose hearts were to be won over, notably the chiefs of the army, to win them and through them the people.

    Tabari IX:36, IbnIshaq:596
    "Prophet, this group of Ansar have a grudge against you for what you did with the booty and how you divided it among you own people.' "Ansar, what is this talk I hear from you? What is the grudge you harbor against me? Do you think ill of me? Did I not come to you when you were erring and needy, and then made rich by Allah?

    Tabari IX 37, See Also Sirat 596
    Prophet Said "Do you hold a grudge against me and are you mentally disturbed because of the worldly things by which I conciliate a people and win them over so that they will embrace Islam and become Muslims?"

    Sahih Bukhari 4:53:390
    When wealth came into the possession of Mohammed he would "Spread it in the Mosque."
    Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle once said to me, "If the revenue of Bahrain came, I would give you this much and this much." When Allah's Apostle had died, the revenue of Bahrain came, and Abu Bakr announced, " Let whoever was promised something by Allah's Apostle come to me." So, I went to Abu Bakr and said, "Allah's Apostle said to me, 'If the revenue of Bahrain came, I would give you this much and this. much." On that Abu Bakr said to me, "Scoop (money) with both your hands." I scooped money with both my hands and Abu Bakr asked me to count it. I counted it and it was five-hundred (gold pieces). The total amount he gave me was one thousand and five hundred (gold pieces.)

    Narrated Anas: Money from Bahrain was brought to the Prophet . He said, "Spread it in the Mosque." It was the biggest amount that had ever been brought to Allah's Apostle . In the meantime Al-'Abbas came to him and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Give me, for I gave the ransom of myself and Aqil." The Prophet said (to him), "Take." He scooped money with both hands and poured it in his garment and tried to lift it, but he could not and appealed to the Prophet, "Will you order someone to help me in lifting it?" The Prophet said, "No." Then Al-'Abbas said, "Then will you yourself help me carry it?" The Prophet said, "No." Then Al 'Abbas threw away some of the money, but even then he was not able to lift it, and so he gain requested the Prophet "Will you order someone to help me carry it?" The Prophet said, "No." Then Al-'Abbas said, "Then will you yourself yelp me carry it?" The Prophet said, 'No." So, Al-'Abbas threw away some more money and lifted it on his shoulder and went away. The Prophet kept on looking at him with astonishment at his greediness till he went out of our sight. Allah's Apostle did not get up from there till not a single Dirham remained from that money.

    I think even in all nations which guarantee freedom of religion today, its a criminal offence to convert people through force, fraud or inducement.

    Muhammad used force(re Meccan idolators whose idols he smashed) & he used inducements here.  Wink

    So he did give money, but not to the poor, but to the greedy to convert them!  Tongue

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #5 - December 09, 2009, 01:14 PM

    Thanks Rashna Smiley
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #6 - December 09, 2009, 02:43 PM

    I don't think Muhammad was necessarily interested in Money.

    He was interested in becoming more God like. In fact he becomes God.

    When Muhammad started off he proclaimed that he was mere mortal and only speaks what God commands and that he is a Gods servant.

    Then when he gains power. He starts to share power with God.

    When he says "When God and Muhammad have deciced on a matter then believers must obey".

    Then God becomes Muhammads servant

    "Believers don't enter muhammad house without his permission"

    And then finally he becomes God.

    "Obeying Muhammad is same as Obeying God".

    So muhammad wasn't after money. He was after Power...a special sort of power...power to be God...



    Nice analysis Rubayat  Afro

    ...
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #7 - December 09, 2009, 03:20 PM

    I think it's safe to say Muhammad really wasn't the materialistic sort of guy. There's no indication hes fattening himself. His evil lies elsehwhere.

    Charitable activities are one of the stronger points of both the prophet and Islam.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #8 - December 09, 2009, 03:59 PM

    I think it's safe to say Muhammad really wasn't the materialistic sort of guy.


    I think there's strong indication to show that Muhammad was indeed a pretty materialistic guy in the early part of his life, if one looks at his marriage pattern then & later.

    Muhammad was raised very poor, he worked hard for rich Khadija for some years, until he managed to catch her eye & she proposed marriage to him. She was a twice widowed 40 y/o, he a never married 25 year old.

    Muhammad immediately starting marrying multiple women simultaneously after her death, but he was monogamous with for the next 25 years, all through his prime.

    He also abandoned all work after he wed her, leading a life of luxury on the basis of her wealth, lazing  Chilling in caves, imagining himself to be a Prophet etc.

    He  didn't dare take a second wife while wed to her, which leads many to suggest that Khadija & he had some sort of pre nuptial contract stipulating that he'd be kicked out if he married\messed around with another.

    When after her death, he married Sauda & Aisha simultaneously, Sauda would have to relinquish her nights to Aisha to please Muhammad.


    A wife may even relinquish her right of spending the night with her husband and give it to her co-wife. It is narrated that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) issued a revocable divorce to Sawda bint Zam?a (Allah be pleased with her). She requested the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) to take her back, and that she will allocate her turn (of spending the night) to A?isha (Allah be pleased with her), in order that she may be included among the wives of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) on the day of Judgment, thus the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) fulfilled her wish and took her back. (See: Mishkat al-Masabih, 2/966, no. 3237)

    Narrated Aisha:
    Whenever Allah's Apostle wanted to go on a journey, he would draw lots as to which of his wives would accompany him. He would take her whose name came out. He used to fix for each of them a day and a night. But Sauda bint Zam?a gave up her (turn) day and night to ?Aisha, the wife of the Prophet in order to seek the pleasure of Allah's Apostle (by that action). (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 47, Number 766)

    ?A?isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Never did I find any woman more loving to me than Sauda bint Zam'a.  As she became old, she had made over her day (which she had to spend) with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to ?A?isha. She said: I have made over my day with you to ?A?isha. So Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) allotted two days to ?A?isha, her own day (when it was her turn) and that of Sauda. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3451)

    Muhammad clearly wasn't into the companionship of old Sauda, who was of the same age as him, she was also wiowed like him, he preferred to spend his nights with little Ayesha even in old age, but he spent his prime monogamously with rich, old Khadija.

    Also, Muhammad "married" beautiful teens like Safiyyah right after butchering her husband & father, even slept with his wife Hafza's Coptic maid Maria which enraged his harem.

    He was materialistic for himself in the first part of his life, later he had bigger ambitions, to become the last man God supposedly sent to humans, have a harem of exotic beauties & a li'l girl & so on.

    His first ambition-to be a boy toy to sugar mommy Khadija was harmless enough, his second ambition was not quite so harmless.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #9 - December 09, 2009, 04:05 PM

    He also abandoned all work after he wed her, leading a life of luxury on the basis of her wealth, lazing  Chilling in caves, imagining himself to be a Prophet etc.


     Cheesy lol that smiley is great.

    I understand he was a jerk towards women, but it still doesn't mean he's materialistic.

    And I'm not saying he was some unworldly monk. But do you have evidence he was sucking Khadija's wealth? Sitting around and imagining himself to be prophet is still not a sign of material greed, of laziness and privelage maybe. But from the little we know of his early life it's clear he was a working as a merchant for Khadija's caravan business. Which makes sense, since that explains how he got his earlier reputation of "al amin" (ie honest, trustworthy).

    I see no real solid evidence in his life of him being obsessed with material wealth and luxury. A vast majority of the hadiths attest to him leaving a rather frugal lifestyle. Aside from the fucking and killing of course.


    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #10 - December 09, 2009, 04:15 PM

    from the little we know of his early life it's clear he was a working as a merchant for Khadija's caravan business.

    What do you mean 'caravan' business -I assume this does not mean of the 4-wheeled variety?  So what kind of things were they selling?

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  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #11 - December 09, 2009, 04:21 PM

    lol Caravan.. not 'wagon'. Caravan is simply a very large camel train laden with trading good.

    Well Mecca was a trade hub between Africa/Yemen and Syria/Egypt. Every season the Meccans would send out hundreds of camels loaded with all sorts of spices, clothings, jewels, wares etc to Syria (damascus). Likewise they recieved lots of caravans from the north and south. Khadija inherited her fathers trading business and apparently her caravan was the largest of all of the tribes. She hired Muhammad as the permanent care-taker of her business interests due to his competence and honesty. Mo was a trader and businessman, so he wasn't really sitting on his ass stealing money from Khadija's wallet.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #12 - December 09, 2009, 04:26 PM


    And I'm not saying he was some unworldly monk. But do you have evidence he was sucking Khadija's wealth? Sitting around and imagining himself to be prophet is still not a sign of material greed, of laziness and privelage maybe. But from the little we know of his early life it's clear he was a working as a merchant for Khadija's caravan business.


    He used to work for Khadija's caravan business, before he managed to wed her, he retired from work at 25, after marriage.

    From an Islamic site:

    http://www.al-islam.org/masoom/bios/khadija.htm
    Quote
    By the time Khadija got married, she was quite a wealthy lady, so wealthy that she felt no need to keep trading and increasing her wealth; instead, she decided to retire and enjoy a comfortable life with her husband who, on his part, preferred an ascetic life to that of money making.


    He used to work before marriage, but then he could hardly afford to sit on his ass then, he was extremely poor & his uncle wouldn't have fed him if he wanted to be lazy, also his hard work & honesty enabled him to catch rich, middle aged Khadija's attention.

    Retiring from work at the prime age of 25, right after marrying a rich old person, when one has worked hard until managing to wed rich old person, does indicate some some laziness & materialism.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #13 - December 09, 2009, 04:32 PM

    Ah I see. I never knew he retired at 25. I was under the impression he was working the merchant angle up till his revelations. So I guess he was going out to that cave and too busy writing the Quran and thinking up hellfire theories to bother with the business.

    But honestly, that still isn't strong enough indication of materialism. He was after all known as a bit of an ascetic, goin out to spiritual retreats in the desert n shit. By materialist, I'm talking a dude decked out in jewels, eating the finest stuff, with the nicest house and sparing no expense for comfort and bein flashy. Like myself.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #14 - December 09, 2009, 05:46 PM

    I remember reading a Hadith where he would sew his own clothes and shoes. Also washing the house here and there. I do remember some Arabs trying to offer him wealth, a nice house, women, kingship etc, but he turned it down. He may of had some wealth before prophethood, but when he started preaching and when Khadija died he had little to no money. I don't think he was after wealth.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #15 - December 09, 2009, 07:47 PM

    no he was not, he was more after power
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #16 - December 09, 2009, 07:53 PM

    no he was not, he was more after power


    I'm not sure. I mean he was offered power by the Arab tribes but only under one condition. If he gave up Islam, they would give him whatever he wanted. But he rejected it and just preached on. Who knows what really happened.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #17 - December 09, 2009, 07:59 PM

    Political power is not the only power you know.

    Everytime you see a Muslim bowing in prayer.. remember that it all started with the commandments of one Arabian man 1400 years ago. Now thats power. Stalin might have controlled his people in his lifetime, but Muhammad's hand reaches well beyond his own mortality.

    Have you watched the movie Conan the Barbarian? Remember the scene with Conan and Thulsa Doom and he talks about the power of steel versus the power of flesh. And then he merely motions his hand and one of his brainwashed followers voluntary throws herself off a cliff to her death. He does this to demonstrate true power, the power to control a persons mind and his will. That is real power.

    Basically what I'm trying to say is that Muhammad was like a less cooler version of Thulsa Doom.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #18 - December 09, 2009, 08:08 PM

    From what I have heard, he usually lived in the mosque. Which is strange, usually in the hadiths you read about him staying at one of his wives' houses.


    Historically, the way the masjid in Madinah was laid out was that there was this large open area, and that was where the jamaat met and prayed.  Surrounding this, making it into a courtyard, really, were the apartments of the wives.  They were small, from what I recall, and built into the wall that made it a building. For example, it is reported in the hadiths that when he was in his final illness and he appointed Abu Bakr to lead the prayers (OK, the sunni hadiths, lol), he watched them while lying in Aishah's apartment.  The area where he is said to be buried now, along with Abu Bakr and Umar in the current Masjid nabawi is what USED to be Aisha's home. The other apartments were long since demolished and even the adjoining neighborhood - where Ali, Umar, etc. lived is now enclosed in the current masjid nabawi.  

    I tried to find a map that shows how this is laid out but there isn't any online.  Many people do not know how small and close together the original masjid nabawi and area was - that the current masjid encompasses most of the area that people lived in that time. Just another reminder of how today's Muslims have allowed the Saudis and others to dictate their own history or their remembrance of history.  

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/omarsc/3901440558/

    This was Aisha's home right here.  The prophet's minbar and mihrab would have only been steps away and I think it is still there, but not used as the main mihrab / minbar today.  

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #19 - December 09, 2009, 09:59 PM

    Seems reasonable. I remember one hadith where Aisha said he would walk to lead prayers with his clothes still wet or still stained (not sure) while she was washing his clothes from semen. In other words, not a long distance for the clothes to dry. Jesus, imagine that, sex and then bam off to lead the prayers, with clothes still dripping wet.
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #20 - December 09, 2009, 10:01 PM

    Ewww! Mo had jizz on his clothes while going to prayers?! Ok, sorry, but I need a hadith to believe that shit. LOL

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #21 - December 09, 2009, 10:03 PM

    Yeah, I was about to ask for the source, but Kafirist beat me to it..

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  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #22 - December 09, 2009, 10:04 PM

    Lol you pervert now I have to go and fabricate a hadith for you!!! kidding, i'll look it up, i think not sure it was in sahih bukhari under the ablution section? give me a moment Smiley
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #23 - December 09, 2009, 10:15 PM

    I know Umar once lead the morning prayer but later realised he'd done so whilst in a state of creaminess. He blamed it on meat.


    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #24 - December 09, 2009, 10:15 PM

    http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/004.sbt.html

    Volume 1, Book 4, Number 229:

        Narrated 'Aisha:

        I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it (water spots were still visible).

    umar was maybe following sunna? but in all fairness it does say water spots on them...

    there are more of these beauties, im currently reading through all the hadiths noting done the crazy ones, loads of them, i finished ablutions, and i dont know if i can go on anymore, i have all the sunni hadiths then the shia hadiths and its just too much craziness to handle
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #25 - December 09, 2009, 10:16 PM

    I prayed like that a few times, Cheesy

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #26 - December 09, 2009, 10:18 PM

    Volume 1, Book 4, Number 230:

        Narrated 'Aisha:

        as above (229).

    Volume 1, Book 4, Number 231:

        Narrated Sulaiman bin Yasar:

        I asked 'Aisha about the clothes soiled with semen. She replied, "I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah's Apostle and he would go for the prayer while water spots were still visible. "

    Volume 1, Book 4, Number 232:

        Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:

        I heard Sulaiman bin Yasar talking about the clothes soiled with semen. He said that 'Aisha had said, "I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah's Apostle and he would go for the prayers while water spots were still visible on them.

    Volume 1, Book 4, Number 233:

        Narrated 'Aisha:

        I used to wash the semen off the clothes of the Prophet and even then I used to notice one or more spots on them.
  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #27 - December 09, 2009, 10:19 PM

    http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/004.sbt.html

    Volume 1, Book 4, Number 229:

        Narrated 'Aisha:

        I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it (water spots were still visible).



     Cheesy

    Quote
    there are more of these beauties, im currently reading through all the hadiths noting done the crazy ones, loads of them, i finished ablutions, and i dont know if i can go on anymore, i have all the sunni hadiths then the shia hadiths and its just too much craziness to handle


    lol dance

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #28 - December 09, 2009, 10:21 PM

    What was the prophet doing cumming in his trousers?  Did he suffer from P.E when this young thing removed her niqab?

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  • Re: Was Mohamed rich?
     Reply #29 - December 09, 2009, 10:23 PM

    maybe wanking?

    http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TR28HPNDH38KFR9UA
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