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 Topic: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB

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  • Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     OP - December 11, 2009, 01:13 PM
    Hi Smiley

    What was it that made you change your minds about Islam? Or have doubts? Was it specifically Quran? Seeing how most of the ex-muslim information out there is based on the Quran, the Sahih Hadeeth collections and the Sira where did you go for more information? Objective information I mean.  

    Did you mostly read hadeeths from the Al-Kafi?

    It's so incredible that we were told the Sunni Hadeeths are not acceptable. Over 1 billion sunnis are not accepted, and their entire hadeeth and all of their practises are not accepted :S

    I used to have problems going to a mosque because I would have to pray with Sunni brothers and we pray differently, it would be totally unsynchronized lol
    Iwas also worried of Sunni brothers asking me what is the hell are you putting a piece of paper/tissue on the floor for? Erm because I don?t have a turba and this is a replacement. OK? Then why do you need a turba for? Erm because this is sand and clay and we came from this? Basically worried about not explaining it well, not rationally at least Cheesy

    No offence to the sunni ex-muslim bunch, I love you dearly but I think I need some (mis)guidance from the ex-shia bunch now Cheesy haha  


    EDIT
    Not sure if this is posted in the right place, feel free to move mods Smiley
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #1 - December 11, 2009, 02:37 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 11, 2009, 01:13 PM
    Hi

    What was it that made you change your minds about Islam? Or have doubts? Was it specifically Quran? Seeing how most of the ex-muslim information out there is based on the Quran, the Sahih Hadeeth collections and the Sira where did you go for more information? Objective information I mean. 

    You see BlackDog... Its called a brain. Equip yourself with this mighty weapon, get yourself a copy of the Quran and read it. 
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  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #2 - December 11, 2009, 02:53 PM
    I have :(

    That's the worst part. I think I'm pretty convinced but I don't know... I just keep this doubt of my doubt instilled in my heart. I keep thinking I'm wrong. All the texts pertaining to the low status of women that we have in Islam come from the Quran. All the verses about killing non-muslims are there. All the explanations and arguments and excuses of Mohamed?s actions come from there. There is nothing about abolishing slavery completely, there is however what your right hand posses (concubines, slaves), there is a text on marrying pre-pubertal children, there are scientific contradictions, there is no mention of ovaries when mentioning embryology. No mention of dinosaurs (don't give me the vague "beasts" verse). There is the abrogation. The switch of Qibla. The switch from liking the Jews and Christians to calling them swine and pigs and they can not be out friends. There is so many verses of hell and it's not clear who is going there (I'm guessing everybody) because it goes from non-believers and disbelievers and hypocrites and non-faithful Muslims. There is the geocentric Earth and the flat earth. There are numerous mentions of Jinns, and safeguarding against magic and curses cast by evil witches. There are the houris which just makes me go wtf? No mention of snow, no mention of other races, no mention of other places, animals or fruits outside the direct region. Contradictions with the Biblical stories but no proof to assert how the scriptures were corrupted. But years of indoctrination and fear still has a hold on me.

  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #3 - December 11, 2009, 05:39 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog
    I used to have problems going to a mosque because I would have to pray with Sunni brothers and we pray differently, it would be totally unsynchronized lol
    Iwas also worried of Sunni brothers asking me what is the hell are you putting a piece of paper/tissue on the floor for? Erm because I don?t have a turba and this is a replacement. OK? Then why do you need a turba for? Erm because this is sand and clay and we came from this?


    When I was young, and interested in Islamic studies (I wasn't Muslim), I would attend the many Halaqa's at 'Sunni' Mosques. Overall, I've been to many and many of those Mosques, all over England. And there I've seen many Shi'as attend prayer there. They didn't pray much differently. I haven't once saw anyone questioning the use of placing the paper/tissue, at the spot of Sujuud. Most Sunni's understand that it's part of the Shi'a belief, and don't see the need to question it. Especially as it doesn't contradict with their beliefs, and in Sahih Al Bukhari/Muslim, there is Ahadeeth that can be found to associate with this Shi'a practice. So I don't see why someone would object to it. And a Shi'a who has some knowledge of Sunni sources would be capable of explaining the purpose of the turba, if the need arises.

    Edit; Weren't you told Sunni's are 'kuffar' or some misguided sect? So how can you pray behind a Sunni?
    For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who refuse to understand, no explanation is possible.
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #4 - December 11, 2009, 05:56 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 11, 2009, 02:53 PM
    I have :(

    That's the worst part. I think I'm pretty convinced but I don't know... I just keep this doubt of my doubt instilled in my heart. I keep thinking I'm wrong. All the texts pertaining to the low status of women that we have in Islam come from the Quran. All the verses about killing non-muslims are there. All the explanations and arguments and excuses of Mohamed?s actions come from there. There is nothing about abolishing slavery completely, there is however what your right hand posses (concubines, slaves), there is a text on marrying pre-pubertal children, there are scientific contradictions, there is no mention of ovaries when mentioning embryology. No mention of dinosaurs (don't give me the vague "beasts" verse). There is the abrogation. The switch of Qibla. The switch from liking the Jews and Christians to calling them swine and pigs and they can not be out friends. There is so many verses of hell and it's not clear who is going there (I'm guessing everybody) because it goes from non-believers and disbelievers and hypocrites and non-faithful Muslims. There is the geocentric Earth and the flat earth. There are numerous mentions of Jinns, and safeguarding against magic and curses cast by evil witches. There are the houris which just makes me go wtf? No mention of snow, no mention of other races, no mention of other places, animals or fruits outside the direct region. Contradictions with the Biblical stories but no proof to assert how the scriptures were corrupted. But years of indoctrination and fear still has a hold on me.



    Written like a true apostate  Afro

    The last bit about Islams hold, this will probably be there for the next 6 months as it did for me, but it will gradually lose its grasp.  I no longer worry about it now, but there are some for whom this fear is still real even after a longer period.
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  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #5 - December 11, 2009, 05:59 PM
    btw which country are you from?
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  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #6 - December 11, 2009, 06:24 PM
    Quote from: Ibn Saba on December 11, 2009, 05:39 PM

    Edit; Weren't you told Sunni's are 'kuffar' or some misguided sect? So how can you pray behind a Sunni?


    No honestly not, I've never had issues with any muslim. Although we were told to watch out for salafis and wahabis growing up haha

    Did you have problems with the divinity of the Imams and the Ahlul Bayt? It seems so similar to the veneration the Catholics have for saints.
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #7 - December 11, 2009, 06:24 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on December 11, 2009, 05:59 PM
    btw which country are you from?


    Iraq Smiley
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #8 - December 11, 2009, 06:40 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 11, 2009, 01:13 PM
    Hi Smiley

    No offence to the sunni ex-muslim bunch, I love you dearly but I think I need some (mis)guidance from the ex-shia bunch now Cheesy haha 



    Are we going to witness another great schism and another epic battle involving a camel?
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #9 - December 11, 2009, 06:57 PM
    Allat and atheist.pk are shii murtads. Use the search function of this site (lookup something like 'shia') and you'll find some interesting posts. Afro
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #10 - December 11, 2009, 07:03 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 11, 2009, 06:24 PM
    Iraq Smiley

    Really?  Didnt you write about going to a haram mcdonalds in your vicinity?
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  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #11 - December 11, 2009, 07:07 PM
    Quote from: awais on December 11, 2009, 06:57 PM
    Allat and atheist.pk are shii murtads. Use the search function of this site (lookup something like 'shia') and you'll find some interesting posts. Afro

    from saying "Ali'yun wali'ullah" to "La ilaha"

     bunny
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #12 - December 11, 2009, 07:11 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 11, 2009, 06:40 PM
    Are we going to witness another great schism and another epic battle involving a camel?


    This is how little I know about the conflicts between the Sunni and Shia: I have no idea what you're talking about haha Cheesy Please do elaborate Cheesy
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #13 - December 11, 2009, 07:12 PM
    Quote from: awais on December 11, 2009, 06:57 PM
    Allat and atheist.pk are shii murtads. Use the search function of this site (lookup something like 'shia') and you'll find some interesting posts. Afro


    Thanks! Can't wait hahaha
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #14 - December 11, 2009, 07:13 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on December 11, 2009, 07:03 PM
    Really?  Didnt you write about going to a haram mcdonalds in your vicinity?


    Well... that's my background but I live in Europe, so McDonald's here is still very much haram Wink
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #15 - December 11, 2009, 07:19 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 11, 2009, 07:11 PM
    This is how little I know about the conflicts between the Sunni and Shia: I have no idea what you're talking about haha Cheesy Please do elaborate Cheesy


    If you are from Iraq then surely you must know about the Battle of Bassorah, that took place between the forces of Imam Ali and those allied to Aisha.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Camel
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #16 - December 11, 2009, 07:22 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 11, 2009, 07:11 PM
    This is how little I know about the conflicts between the Sunni and Shia: I have no idea what you're talking about haha Cheesy Please do elaborate Cheesy

    omg. Okay so Uthman (the 3rd Caliph after Abu Bakr and Omar) was murdered right, and then Ali was elected Caliph, and Aisha and many other's didn't think he was doing enough to investigate the murder and was complicit and so attacked him, Aisha observed the battle while riding a Camel, and that's what it was named for, "Battle of the Camel".
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #17 - December 11, 2009, 07:43 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 11, 2009, 07:19 PM
    If you are from Iraq then surely you must know about the Battle of Bassorah, that took place between the forces of Imam Ali and those allied to Aisha.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Camel


    Yeah heard of it. Never read about it. Aisha has a really bad rep amongst shia :( poor girl
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #18 - December 11, 2009, 07:44 PM
    Quote from: atheist.pk on December 11, 2009, 07:07 PM
    from saying "Ali'yun wali'ullah" to "La ilaha"

     bunny


    Your story was inspirational. Please be careful Smiley
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #19 - December 11, 2009, 07:45 PM
    Quote from: awais on December 11, 2009, 07:22 PM
    omg. Okay so Uthman (the 3rd Caliph after Abu Bakr and Omar) was murdered right, and then Ali was elected Caliph, and Aisha and many other's didn't think he was doing enough to investigate the murder and was complicit and so attacked him, Aisha observed the battle while riding a Camel, and that's what it was named for, "Battle of the Camel".


    Yeah heard about that too. Was told it's false accusations and Aisha went against the prophets orders of his women staying at home or something like that? But will read more about it, it's hard to get objective information you know?
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #20 - December 11, 2009, 07:51 PM
    Lol, Shias tend to accuse that Aisha actually wanted Uthman dead because he had stripped her extra special stipend privilege that Abu Bakr and Umar before him had kept going for a decade or so. She instigated many people by apparently saying "Get rid off that white bearded fellow".  wacko
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #21 - December 11, 2009, 07:52 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 11, 2009, 07:44 PM
    Your story was inspirational. Please be careful Smiley

    Cant wait to get out of here  Cry
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #22 - December 11, 2009, 08:00 PM
    All I was taught when I was little is Shias are kuffar kuttas who cause fitnah.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #23 - December 11, 2009, 08:10 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 11, 2009, 07:19 PM
    If you are from Iraq then surely you must know about the Battle of Bassorah, that took place between the forces of Imam Ali and those allied to Aisha.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Camel


    Interesting. I noticed they referred to hadiths about the battle. I thought the hadiths were only directly about the life of Mohammed.
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #24 - December 11, 2009, 08:18 PM
    Quote from: Kafirist on December 11, 2009, 08:00 PM
    All I was taught when I was little is Shias are kuffar kuttas who cause fitnah.


    lol whats a kutta?
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #25 - December 11, 2009, 08:23 PM
    It's a south asian word meaning "dog".
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #26 - December 11, 2009, 08:29 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 11, 2009, 07:43 PM
    Yeah heard of it. Never read about it. Aisha has a really bad rep amongst shia :( poor girl


    I've had a lot of shia friends, all of them converts, and they're very much into the history and politics of being shia, being oppressed, etc.  On the other hand, I have relatives who are shia Arabs and they don't care about Fadak and Battle of the Camel and Ghadir Khumm and all that.  In fact, they are intermarried with Christians and sunni Arabs.  In fact, I didn't even know until the sectarian fighting broke out in Iraq that half of them were shia, because it was never a big deal before.  It was just Auntie so and so, not Auntie so and so who is shia. 
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #27 - December 11, 2009, 09:58 PM
    Yeah just goes to prove that people aren't inherently born sectarian, we are raised into it.
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #28 - December 11, 2009, 10:16 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 11, 2009, 06:24 PM
    No honestly not, I've never had issues with any muslim. Although we were told to watch out for salafis and wahabis growing up haha

    Did you have problems with the divinity of the Imams and the Ahlul Bayt? It seems so similar to the veneration the Catholics have for saints.

    I thought Shi'as grow up told stories of Saqifah, how Abu Bakr and Omar stole the Caliphate from Ali, and didn't attend the Prophets funeral, battle of camel, battle of Siffin, Yazid and Mauwiyah, killing of Hussein, 'pen and paper' issue, fitna of Aisha, Hafsa, and the Sahabah etc etc Which naturally leads them to grow up having a deep hatred of Sunni's.

    I'm not an Ex-Shi'a. But during my early years of Islamic studies, which included various sects of Islam, I did have a problem with the Imamate topic. If it was so important, and a major part of the Shi'a faith, why isn't it clearly mentioned in the Qu'ran to follow the 12 Imams?

    I never understand why they say the Prophet's wives, Aisha and Hafsa, are not part of Ahlul Bayt? When the Qu'ran clearly says they are? Their argument of tahreef occured, which I find rather absurd. Overall, I found the whole sect of Shia'sm nonsense.
    For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who refuse to understand, no explanation is possible.
  • Re: Calling the ex-shia muslims of CEMB
     Reply #29 - December 11, 2009, 10:18 PM
    Of course shiism is nonsense. It's a simple equation really..

    Islam = nonsense

    Islam + more bullshit = Shiism

    Shiism = Nonense + more bullshit = stil nonsense

    There fore
    Shiism = Nonsense.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

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