Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists

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Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
OP - December 13, 2009, 12:19 AM

Quote
My Muslim brothers may question me, "Zakir, why are you congratulating an atheist?" The reason that I am congratulating an atheist is because he agrees with the first part of the Shahada i.e. the Islamic Creed, ?La ilaaha? - meaning ?there is no God?.

lol this guys really starting to piss me off.

http://www.irf.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=212&Itemid=186

Quote from: Naik
If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to an atheist or any person and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, he will reply, ?the creator of that object.? Some may say ?the producer? while others may say ?the manufacturer.?

If someone did make the object or machine, where is the creator then? If the person is not found or revealed himself that he is the creator, then I cannot assume that the object belongs to any creator. If the object has no creator then the creator does not exist.

Quote from: Naik
Let us apply this theory of probability to the Qur?an, and assume that a person has guessed all the information that is mentioned in the Qur?an which was unknown at that time. Let us discuss the probability of all the guesses being simultaneously correct........The Qur?an rightly says it is spherical,

Incorrect Naik

The quran says ?And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out).? [Al-Quran 71:19]

?He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)....? [Al-Quran 20:53]

The Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse: ?And we have made the earth egg shaped?. [Al-Quran 79:30]

The quran never mentioned this philosophy first In 570 BCE, it was the Pythagoras that mentioned this in early Ancient Greece

Then it was Aristotle that mentioned that the Earth was Spherical. "Aristotle observed "there are stars seen in Egypt and [...] Cyprus which are not seen in the northerly regions." Since this could only happen on a curved surface, he too believed Earth was a sphere "of no great size, for otherwise the effect of so slight a change of place would not be quickly apparent." (De caelo, 298a2-10)"

However when the Catholic Church came to power, this notion was completed erased by the Romans. Furthermore in Persia all the greek and hellenistic culture scriptures existed. later conquered by Muhammad, it was all destroyed.

Also around the time of Muhammad, there was an Armenian astronomer named Anania Shirakatsi who "described the world as "being like an egg with a spherical yolk (the globe) surrounded by a layer of white (the atmosphere) and covered with a hard shell (the sky)."

So as you can see the notion of earth being a Sphere clearly existed way before the Quran even mentioned it. You can thank Muhammad for taking credit for other people's work and posing them off as he and Allah said it
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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #1 - December 13, 2009, 01:53 AM

Every generation, God makes one cretin to rule over all other cretins, as an example to Man as to how God could fashion such an absurdity upon his own whim. And Zakir Naik is the cretin that God created and put amongst men and women, to show the wonders of his design - such a cretin of such stupid cretinous moronic idiocy as has never been seen before; and unto him, like moths to a lamp, are attracted all other cretins in the world. Observe his speeches and the audience - the perfect cretin, with his following of cretins.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #2 - December 13, 2009, 02:17 AM

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #3 - December 13, 2009, 02:20 AM

Quote from: billy on December 13, 2009, 01:53 AM
Every generation, God makes one cretin to rule over all other cretins, as an example to Man as to how God could fashion such an absurdity upon his own whim. And Zakir Naik is the cretin that God created and put amongst men and women, to show the wonders of his design - such a cretin of such stupid cretinous moronic idiocy as has never been seen before; and unto him, like moths to a lamp, are attracted all other cretins in the world. Observe his speeches and the audience - the perfect cretin, with his following of cretins.

Has meaning on so many levels and you see it in so many situations not just this one...... I can really appreciate what you mean

"Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #4 - December 13, 2009, 02:25 AM

Although in the case of Zakir Naik, I personally do think that he knows that he is lying and fooling his admirers...

"Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #5 - December 13, 2009, 03:09 AM

Quote from: ras111 on December 13, 2009, 02:25 AM
Although in the case of Zakir Naik, I personally do think that he knows that he is lying and fooling his admirers...

I sometimes wonder whether he is stuck in what Dan Dennett said regarding a lot of Christian preachers; the concord fallacy. So much vested interest in what they're constructed that it would be inconceivable to walk away from it this far into the exercise.

I really do wonder some times why Indians (Pakistani's and Bangladeshi's are in the category of Indian). hold him in such high regards - the guy can barely speak English let alone construct a coherent philosophical argument.

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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #6 - December 13, 2009, 03:16 AM

Quote from: kaiwai on December 13, 2009, 03:09 AM
I sometimes wonder whether he is stuck in what Dan Dennett said regarding a lot of Christian preachers; the concord fallacy. So much vested interest in what they're constructed that it would be inconceivable to walk away from it this far into the exercise.

I really do wonder some times why Indians (Pakistani's and Bangladeshi's are in the category of Indian). hold him in such high regards - the guy can barely speak English let alone construct a coherent philosophical argument.

For one because he puts on the pretense of being educated and intelligent, and he is defending something dear to them. I am familiar with that attitude here. Mainly older people of certain backgrounds display it, especially the women, when some apparently educated man starts blabbing about Jesus they are captivated.

"Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #7 - December 13, 2009, 03:18 AM

Nah, I think he's just a plain fucktard. Maybe a hint of deception. But really, only a true believer can equate religious truth to "2+2=4" and keep a straight face.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #8 - December 13, 2009, 03:55 AM

Quote from: ras111 on December 13, 2009, 03:16 AM

For one because he puts on the pretense of being educated and intelligent, and he is defending something dear to them.

You could look at it that way. But i don't think its the defending of Islam that appeals to them. It is the smiling, sneering, smug denigration, intolerance and bigotry articulated towards every other religion or belief system that makes them feel comforted.

He tells them, effectively, that Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, atheists, secularists, are stupid, and that they are better than them, because Islam is the best, superior, and the only truth.

The easiest way for people with low self-esteem to feel good about themselves is not to gain self-respect and self-worth through inner spirit and achievment - the quickest way to do that is to tell them that the entire world consists of mindless sheep and dunces following stupid religions. Just tell them what they want to hear, that everyone else sucks, and they are supreme, and you get them clapping like seals in the zoo who have fish thrown at them.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #9 - December 13, 2009, 04:22 AM

Quote from: billy on December 13, 2009, 03:55 AM
You could look at it that way. But i don't think its the defending of Islam that appeals to them. It is the smiling, sneering, smug denigration, intolerance and bigotry articulated towards every other religion or belief system that makes them feel comforted.

He tells them, effectively, that Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, atheists, secularists, are stupid, and that they are better than them, because Islam is the best, superior, and the only truth.

sounds like the next modern day hitler
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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #10 - December 13, 2009, 10:39 AM

Quote from: billy on December 13, 2009, 01:53 AM
Every generation, God makes one cretin to rule over all other cretins, as an example to Man as to how God could fashion such an absurdity upon his own whim. And Zakir Naik is the cretin that God created and put amongst men and women, to show the wonders of his design - such a cretin of such stupid cretinous moronic idiocy as has never been seen before; and unto him, like moths to a lamp, are attracted all other cretins in the world. Observe his speeches and the audience - the perfect cretin, with his following of cretins.

funny/true. The issue now is that we as sheep/seal know so much more than our previous generation, who knew more than their elders, that, today the cretin has pull some epic cretin rabbits out of an epic cretin hat.

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #11 - December 13, 2009, 10:53 AM

Quote from: billy on December 13, 2009, 03:55 AM
You could look at it that way. But i don't think its the defending of Islam that appeals to them. It is the smiling, sneering, smug denigration, intolerance and bigotry articulated towards every other religion or belief system that makes them feel comforted.

He tells them, effectively, that Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, atheists, secularists, are stupid, and that they are better than them, because Islam is the best, superior, and the only truth.

The easiest way for people with low self-esteem to feel good about themselves is not to gain self-respect and self-worth through inner spirit and achievment - the quickest way to do that is to tell them that the entire world consists of mindless sheep and dunces following stupid religions. Just tell them what they want to hear, that everyone else sucks, and they are supreme, and you get them clapping like seals in the zoo who have fish thrown at them.

(btw did you know a cretin means a mentally-retarded dwarf)

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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #12 - December 13, 2009, 06:46 PM

We Muslims need a Richard Dawkins version of our own kind who can take Zakir and shut him down. The dude Ali Sina went from being credible to now not so much
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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #13 - December 13, 2009, 06:49 PM

Quote from: _truth_ on December 13, 2009, 06:46 PM
We Muslims need a Richard Dawkins version of our own kind who can take Zakir and shut him down. The dude Ali Sina went from being credible to now not so much

I think it's way too risky for an ex-muslim to come forward in that way. Being thrust into such a position has it's risks attached.
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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #14 - December 13, 2009, 06:52 PM

They slaughter normal Muslims for just not being on their side.. What do you think the Islamists will do to a "Muslim" Richard Dawkins?

Besides, the Muslim world needs a proper 19th-century level Biology department at a some-what reputable university before producing a Richard Dawkins do begin with. After all Richard Dawkins is famous first and foremost because of his theories related to evolution and genetics - not religion.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #15 - December 13, 2009, 07:00 PM

It's a double edged sword. Muslims don't really take any of the four horsemen seriously and reckon that they don't have a clue about islam or any of the sources, and it's way too risky for an ex-muslim to come into the public eye. Not only putting themselves at risk but members of their family as well. Is it really worth it? We only need to go back twenty years to the Satanic Verses debacle to witness the uproar it caused amongst the muslims and robbed Salman Rushdie of his freedom.
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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #16 - December 13, 2009, 07:05 PM

that is the thing, the ex muslim base is so small because of fear of getting killed in many Islamic State. But I think we need an Ex Muslim who can take on these Muslim Scholars. Would have to be an Ex Muslim from the West because here we are protected
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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #17 - December 13, 2009, 07:11 PM

Salman Rushdie, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Irshaad Manji, Ibn Warraq, Maryam Namazie, Wafa Sultan etc, etc.

We have quite a few well known ex-Muslims circulating about and challenging Islam itself. Muslims will never really debate them and only have violence and intimidation as responses. Maybe in our lifetime as Muslim become more and more acclimatized to harsh criticism and the ex-muslim phenomenon becomes more entrenched and undeniable.. maybe then there will be a loosening process that results in Muslim to consider the opposite side in a sensible manner. But till then, a large number of muslims will continue to act like apes and pigs.

EDIT: And I think whatever progress occurs, it will originate from the west, not that cesspit of ignorance and violence we call the Muslim world.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #18 - December 13, 2009, 07:26 PM

If it's an academic debate, then the only two out of that lot you mentioned would be Ibn Warraq and Wafa Sultan. Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Irshaad Manji are not upto scratch. I can't say anything for Salman Rushdie or Maryam Namazie.
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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #19 - December 13, 2009, 08:02 PM

thanks for the names, i will have to check those guys out
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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #20 - December 13, 2009, 10:26 PM

Atheist don't say there is no God.

They say there is no evidence for a God.

There is a Difference.

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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #21 - December 13, 2009, 11:50 PM

Quote from: Rubaiyat
Atheist don't say there is no God.

They say there is no evidence for a God.

There is a Difference.

I think you are confusing it with Dawkins reengineered and doctored definition of atheism., its a little oversimplified as many theists I have met also acknowledge there is no evidence for God, but they are not atheists. They see it as a matter of faith.

Atheism is the exact opposite of theism, Atheists say there is no God (According to Oxford English dictionary - atheism Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a god) - As you say one of the main reasons for this lack of belief may be because they have not seen any evidence.

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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #22 - December 14, 2009, 08:12 AM

He is either really stupid, or really clever at BSing stupid people.

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #23 - December 14, 2009, 08:43 AM

I am beginnng to wonder whether Nalaik is a manipulator and a populist, rather than somebody with a genuine Isamic pov. Its just that for an educated person he seems to spout of your usual thickie uncle & aunties dinner conversations ad verbatum. They also happen to be his support base and core support for his TV career.

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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #24 - December 14, 2009, 10:16 AM

Quote from: IsLame on December 13, 2009, 11:50 PM
I think you are confusing it with Dawkins reengineered and doctored definition of atheism., its a little oversimplified as many theists I have met also acknowledge there is no evidence for God, but they are not atheists. They see it as a matter of faith.

The word Atheists always had a different meaning in the past. It never meant denial of God. It always meant a rejection of a particular concept of God.

Modern Atheist are not rejecting a particular concept of God...they are rejecting Idea of God on the basis of evidence.

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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #25 - December 14, 2009, 10:24 AM

Quote from: Rubaiyat on December 14, 2009, 10:16 AM
The word Atheists always had a different meaning in the past. It never meant denial of God. It always meant a rejection of a particular concept of God.

Modern Atheist are not rejecting a particular concept of God...they are rejecting Idea of God on the basis of evidence.

Can you point me to a dictionary where I can find this modern definition of the word atheist, it is beginning to sound like the arabic word for 'daha' which makes the earth round by a reinterpretation of the arabic word for 'flat' LoL.

I think agnostic atheist is a better term , or coin another word to describe it. Atheism believes in no Gods, and has nothing to do with descriptions of qualifying evidence.

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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #26 - December 14, 2009, 10:33 AM

I hate arguing over the semantics of what atheist means, its so pointless.
Too much trying to turn a negative statement into a positive one

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #27 - December 14, 2009, 11:24 AM

Quote from: IsLame on December 14, 2009, 10:24 AM
Can you point me to a dictionary where I can find this modern definition of the word atheist

Before you do that you need to find out what Atheist meant in the past.

It never meant denial of Gods. Rather it was a rejection of particular concept of God. Thus Socrates was accused of Atheism because he denied the Greek Pantheon.

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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #28 - December 14, 2009, 12:14 PM

Quote from: Rubaiyat on December 14, 2009, 11:24 AM
It never meant denial of Gods.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary it did & still does?

Quote
atheism Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a god

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Re: Dr Zaik Nakir's Take on us Atheists
Reply #29 - December 14, 2009, 01:55 PM

According to the Longman the definition is:

Quote
disbelief in the existence of God

Personally I'm an athiest. That only says that I do not believe in any god. It does not say anything about wether I know if there's a god or not. You might call that person who postulate such knowlegde a gnostic atheist.
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