Quran "Scientific Miracle" The Ocean

1« Previous thread | Next thread »
- _truth_
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Quran "Scientific Miracle" The Ocean
OP - December 13, 2009, 07:26 AM

Quote
Allah says:

(Or [the state of a disbeliever] is like the darkness in a vast deep sea, overwhelmed with waves topped by waves, topped by dark clouds, (layers of) darkness upon darkness: if a man stretches out his hand, he can hardly see it! And he for whom Allah has not appointed light for him there is no light.) (24:

http://www.thekeytoislam.com/en/scientific-explanations/oceans.shtml

This is quite funny. Considering the fact that you don't need to be a genius to figure out by looking that at certain point there is no light under water. One can easily notice this while going swimming underwater.

The author also says
Quote
. The Prophet lived in a desert climate far from the ocean, and he did not travel across any oceans and the fact that the Quran gives such detailed information on this, is in fact a firm proof of the veracity of the Quran.

Interesting. Considering the fact that during his early years, Muhammad was a merchant trader working for Khadija. "It is known that he became a merchant and "was involved in trade between the Indian ocean and the Mediterranean Sea."( Source = Berkshire Encyclopedia of World History (2005), v.3, p. 1025)
- Iblis
- Ex-Muslim
- betta rekognize
- offline
Re: Quran "Scientific Miracle" The Ocean
Reply #1 - December 13, 2009, 07:47 AM

The power of faith, eh? So quickly, with even the most thinnest *hints* of some knowledge they immediately proclaim a truth affirming miracle of science. Nevermind the fact that it can be explained much easily like perhaps someone else told him of oceans.. oh and how about the fact that the Red Sea is just a about 80km away from Mecca. Idiots.. *sigh*

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
- Omaar Khayaam
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Quran "Scientific Miracle" The Ocean
Reply #2 - December 13, 2009, 08:03 AM

I have often said that the "scientific miracles" are the first thing thing the muslims talk about when trying to demonstrate the Quran's divine origin. Firstly there is an assumption that God exists and the Quran is from him. The muslim must clearly show through reason ho that is so.

It's always best to have a list of these scientific miracles written down and the counter arguments, showing clearly that it was the Greeks who spoke of oceans etc. I've never really come across anyone who brings up the scientific miracles from the traditional sunni/sufi community, because most of them are aware that it's a dangerous line of thought.
- King Koopa
- Ex-Muslim
- Your Mom's Favorite Lover
- offline
Re: Quran "Scientific Miracle" The Ocean
Reply #3 - December 13, 2009, 09:12 AM

I thought it was dangerous because you can falsify it. And saying that "bring a verse like it" is a falsification method is fucking stupid. God is asking people to attempt falsification, well people have tried, but whatever they do it won't be accepted.

Yesterday night I was drunk, while outside having a cigarette I stopped to ponder for a moment and looked towards the expanse of the sky. It was a particular beautiful night, a black canvas peppered with distant and faint stars. And I thought to myself, if I was in the 7th century Arabia, drunk, waiting to meet one of the naked ladies circumambulating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumambulation) the Kaaba how would I describe this beauty?

*starts shaking and falls into a violent seizure*

1. Lo, and behold. The night sky.
2. Surely We have expanded it with a might expansion.
3. And the believers sayeth "This is from our Lord"
4. We have adorned the lowest skies with stars.
5. So that ye may believe.
6. But the disbelievers arest evil. Most Vile.
7. They use tools of magic to and 21th century science to describe how there is only one star in this universe.
8. To hell do they belong.
9. For disproving Me wrong.
10. Wow, that was a rhyme, but let's move it along.
11. For this is not a song.
12. This is clear proof, so they mayest believe.

*Wakes up, wipes brow and tries to find nearest marriage to break up*

PS
Is there ANY mention that the sun is a star in the Quran? Is it EVER referred to as a star?
- Baal
- Arab Slave Overlord
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Quran "Scientific Miracle" The Ocean
Reply #4 - December 13, 2009, 11:34 AM

But the oceans are not all darkness, on some ocean floors, there exists constant volcanoes and it is quite 'alight'

"Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Quran "Scientific Miracle" The Ocean
Reply #5 - December 13, 2009, 11:47 AM

Quote from: BlackDog on December 13, 2009, 09:12 AM
Yesterday night I was drunk, while outside having a cigarette I stopped to ponder for a moment and looked towards the expanse of the sky. It was a particular beautiful night, a black canvas peppered with distant and faint stars. And I thought to myself, if I was in the 7th century Arabia, drunk, waiting to meet one of the naked ladies circumambulating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumambulation) the Kaaba how would I describe this beauty?

Been there, done that..

My Book
My Blog
- Cool Canadian
- Ex-Muslim
- Don't mess with raccoon Mario
- offline
Re: Quran "Scientific Miracle" The Ocean
Reply #6 - December 13, 2009, 06:22 PM

Quote from: BlackDog on December 13, 2009, 09:12 AM
I thought it was dangerous because you can falsify it. And saying that "bring a verse like it" is a falsification method is fucking stupid. God is asking people to attempt falsification, well people have tried, but whatever they do it won't be accepted.

Yesterday night I was drunk, while outside having a cigarette I stopped to ponder for a moment and looked towards the expanse of the sky. It was a particular beautiful night, a black canvas peppered with distant and faint stars. And I thought to myself, if I was in the 7th century Arabia, drunk, waiting to meet one of the naked ladies circumambulating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumambulation) the Kaaba how would I describe this beauty?

*starts shaking and falls into a violent seizure*

1. Lo, and behold. The night sky.
2. Surely We have expanded it with a might expansion.
3. And the believers sayeth "This is from our Lord"
4. We have adorned the lowest skies with stars.
5. So that ye may believe.
6. But the disbelievers arest evil. Most Vile.
7. They use tools of magic to and 21th century science to describe how there is only one star in this universe.
8. To hell do they belong.
9. For disproving Me wrong.
10. Wow, that was a rhyme, but let's move it along.
11. For this is not a song.
12. This is clear proof, so they mayest believe.

*Wakes up, wipes brow and tries to find nearest marriage to break up*

PS
Is there ANY mention that the sun is a star in the Quran? Is it EVER referred to as a star?

It usually says sun, moon and stars. So I guess the Qur'an does not talk about the sun as a star.

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
~Sir Richard Francis Burton

"I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
~RIBS
- _truth_
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Quran "Scientific Miracle" The Ocean
Reply #7 - December 13, 2009, 06:42 PM

Quote from: Omaar Khayaam on December 13, 2009, 08:03 AM

It's always best to have a list of these scientific miracles written down and the counter arguments, showing clearly that it was the Greeks who spoke of oceans etc. I've never really come across anyone who brings up the scientific miracles from the traditional sunni/sufi community, because most of them are aware that it's a dangerous line of thought.

very well said, thats what im trying to do. We need to know the counter arguments to these "miracles" so they can be easily refuted
- Homer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Quran "Scientific Miracle" The Ocean
Reply #8 - December 14, 2009, 12:47 AM

Baal hints on a funny thing about 'quranicles'..that they are typically kind of wrong as well, as they are based on simplistic and incomplete observations.

Also I love the use of the word 'hardly'...as considering your eyes would be crushed from the pressure of being that deep along with the blackness since sunlight is blocked, would make it more 'not at all' than hardly.

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

"Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags." -Ibl
- Soren
- Member
- atheist
- offline
Re: Quran "Scientific Miracle" The Ocean
Reply #9 - December 14, 2009, 02:13 PM

Quote
In the works of Aristoteles there are distinct references not only to sponge gathering by means of free diving but also reports as to special instruments invented by divers so as to remain submerged longer. Furthermore Plutarchos as well as Oppianos make reference to a lighting system used by divers at that time, in order to see around them at the great depths at which they were active as, otherwise, at small depths there was no visibility problem. When going under divers were holding in their mouth what was known as "the white pomade" which they spat as soon as they went to the bottom. This concoction, unknown to us, phosphoresced when in contact with the sea-water, thus enabling divers to see around them

Source: http://www.greekhotel.com/scuba/en/history.htm

Oppian:

Quote
... Then he spits out little of the oil he has in his mouth and this rises to the surface, spreading out and calming the surface agitation and lighting up the waters as a torch lights up the darkness and allows man to see in the middle of the night ... (as cited in Robert F. Marx, The history of underwater exploration, p. 8 (the book is partly online on google books)
1« Previous thread | Next thread »