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Theme Changer

 Topic: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?

 (Read 11296 times)
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  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #30 - October 02, 2011, 12:59 AM

    The word theory in scientific terms is different from how we use it in everyday language.

    This  should explain what I mean in great detail.

    ''Fact” in Everyday Language: A “fact” is something that is true. Whether you like it or not, “facts are stubborn things” (thank you, John Adams … or, “facts are stupid things” courtesy of Ronald Reagan). In general use, a “fact” is the strongest thing that can be said about, well, anything.

    “Law” in Everyday Language: In everyday language, a “law” is generally on the same level as a fact. A law is something that is true, that generally explains or answers lots of different things. However, outside of politics, “law” is rarely used unless actually referring to something scientific.

    “Theory” in Everyday Language: This is where the supposed insult to scientists comes in when you call something “just a theory.” Outside of scientific circles, a “theory” is more of a supposition. “I have a theory that my cat will meow when it hears someone at the door.” It may or may not be “true,” but it’s a supposition I have that is probably supported by at least some sort of observation. But it’s really “just a theory” and is just as likely to be shown wrong at any given time as it is to be shown right.

    “Hypothesis” in Everyday Language: A “hypothesis” is sort of on the same level as a “theory,” if slightly below. To most people, they can be used interchangeably, though most will just resort to “theory” because “hypothesis” is an extra syllable longer and makes you sound like a nerd.
    Scientific Use

    In science, the order of importance of these is almost reversed: Theory > Law > Hypothesis > Facts. In addition, each term has a specific, well-defined use.

    “Fact” in Science: It may surprise you to know that a “fact” is generally used the same way – it is an observation – but it is very specific. For example, if I drop a ball while holding it in the air above a surface, it is a fact that it will fall to the surface. This term is usually not used, however — we resort to “observations.” For example, I observe that when the wind blows, a flag will flutter.

    “Hypothesis” in Science: This is an “idea” that is formulated to explain observations (or our “facts”). In the above to examples, I might hypothesize that there is a force that pulls on the ball, counteracted when I’m holding it. Or that the wind exerts a force on the flag that causes it to flutter. The purpose of a hypothesis is to explain one or more observations in a cogent way. A good hypothesis must be testable – it must be able to make predictions about what would happen in similar situations – otherwise a hypothesis can never be verified nor refuted … and it remains “just a hypothesis.” At present, String “Theory” is really just a hypothesis.

    “Law” in Science: Laws are a descriptive generalization about how some aspect of the natural world behaves under stated circumstances. For example, Kepler’s Three Laws of Planetary Motion are (1) Planets travel in ellipses with one focus being the Sun, (2) planets sweep out equal area in equal time, and (3) a planet’s period-squared is proportional to its semi-major-axis-cubed. Laws are generally made from many facts/observations and are effectively an “elevated” level from a hypothesis. Another example are the Laws of Thermodynamics. Because a Law is just a description of how something behaves and it does not explain why it behaves that way, it is usually considered to be below the level of a theory.

    “Theory” in Science: A theory is really one of the pinnacles of science – what nearly everyone strives to make out of their hypotheses. A hypothesis is elevated to a theory when it has withstood all attempts to falsify it. Experiment after experiment has shown it sufficient to explain all observations that it encompasses. In other words, a “theory” has never been shown to be false, despite – usually – hundreds if not thousands of separate attempts to break it. It explains the observations with one or more mechanisms and, because it provides that mechanism, it is considered to be above the level of a Law. Examples these days are the Theory of Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, the Germ Theory of Disease, and yes, the Theory of Evolution.

    I should note that theories are usually conglomerations of several different hypotheses, laws, facts, inferences, and observations. For example, while the Theory of Evolution is a theory, various mechanisms for it are generally still hypotheses, such as Natural Selection (though some may quibble with me over that).

    Another good example of a Theory is the Standard Model of Particle Physics. This describes how fundamental particles and forces interact. It is based upon countless experiments and observations and it rests on solid mathematical framework. It has many different laws in its make-up (such as how particles behave, or how forces interact) as well as many observations (such as the mass of the proton, or the energy of a tau neutrino).

    A third example was partially mentioned above – Kepler’s Laws of Planetary Motion. Tycho Brahe and Johannas Kepler made many detailed observations of planetary positions over the course of many years. Kepler formed a hypothesis about how planets moved based upon the data. From the hypothesis, he made predictions on where planets would be later on. When these were confirmed, his hypotheses were elevated to laws. Later, Isaac Newton came along and with his Theory of Gravity was able to provide a physics-based framework for why and how those laws worked.

    Finally, it should also be noted that nothing in science is “forever.” It is always subject to further tests and observations. In many cases, people really do try to do this since that’s how you make a name for yourself. If you’re the scientist who has verified for the 123,194th time that a ball and a feather fall at the same rate in a vacuum, so what? But, if you’re the scientist that has found evidence that gravity itself is not a force emitted by an object but rather a bending of the fabric of space itself, then, well, you’d be Einstein – a household name.''

    I can't post the link for some odd reason.

    All credits goes towards to Exposing PseudoAstronomy.
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #31 - October 02, 2011, 03:14 AM

    Great post dude, I am not really academically gifted and this particular topic has been bothering me.

    I am still slightly confused though. You said that " At present, String “Theory” is really just a hypothesis., this worries and confuses me. How would a layman like myself be able to distinguish between what is hypotheses or theory?

    Would it be right to say that a theory is true? If you cannot say this, then really the whole "its only a theory" seems reasonable.

    Also, maybe this may be a cause for a separate topic but meh, where does the Big Bang Theory stand in all of this?

    All this confusion stems from the big bang theory, as a friend who knows more about physics told me that the big bang theory is not really true and that we do not know our origin.

    n = 0 : n + [1,1,1...]
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #32 - October 02, 2011, 04:34 AM

    Well according to dictionary.com The word theory has several meanings

    ''a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena''

    ''a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact''

    My guess is that when scientists speak of the String theory they mean the word theory in the second definition I stated.



    I'm certain the big bang  theory is true. Infact it was a Catholic Priest who proposed it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyCkADmNdNo

    Watch this Video it should explain it better than I can.
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #33 - October 02, 2011, 05:48 AM

    Great post dude, I am not really academically gifted and this particular topic has been bothering me.

    I am still slightly confused though. You said that " At present, String ?Theory? is really just a hypothesis., this worries and confuses me. How would a layman like myself be able to distinguish between what is hypotheses or theory?

    You probably can't. grin12

    However, a hypothesis is a speculative attempt to explain an observed phenomenon. IOW, you see something happening, think about it a bit, and propose a hypothesis. Then, you have to test the hypothesis to see if it stands up to scrutiny.

    A theory, in scientific terms, is something that has already been thoroughly tested.

    Quote
    Would it be right to say that a theory is true? If you cannot say this, then really the whole "its only a theory" seems reasonable.

    Two points here. First is that current science is a collection of things which have not been proven false. It is impossible to prove, in absolute terms, that any scientific theory is true.

    Having said that, the old canard of "it's only a theory" is still stupid because it attempts to imply that the theory in question is just someone's wild idea that may not stand up to scrutiny. In other words, saying "it's only a theory" is either ignorant, or dishonest, or both.

    Quote
    Also, maybe this may be a cause for a separate topic but meh, where does the Big Bang Theory stand in all of this?

    In all of what? It has absolutely nothing to do with evolution, but it is a scientific theory.

    Quote
    All this confusion stems from the big bang theory, as a friend who knows more about physics told me that the big bang theory is not really true and that we do not know our origin.

    Well, tell him to go get a Nobel Prize.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #34 - October 03, 2011, 07:08 PM

    Hmm thanks for the replies  thnkyu

    I think it becomes quite clear when I drop the notion of absolutes.

    n = 0 : n + [1,1,1...]
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #35 - October 06, 2011, 10:48 PM

    I think micro evolution is easy to grasp and accept it's also perverse to deny it, seeing how it happens right in front of our eyes. But what boggles my mind is how you can be so selective? And yet not do the necessary research, i.e. selecting to believe in micro evolution but not in macro evolution. Science is not a damn candy shop!!!

    As I mentioned to a muslim on another forum (who never replied), it’s like believing in stairs but not a staircase.
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #36 - November 05, 2011, 03:02 PM

    i sometimes feel like scientists should have chosen a different word, or perhaps invented a new word. 'Theory' already has one definition that most people understand, but in a scientific context, it means an entirely different thing.

    Simple confusion between two different definitions of a word accounts for such a significant amount of the anti evolution nonsense.  I have tried to explain the difference so many times, often multiple times to the same person, and I have never made any progress. Not once.


    I see where you're coming from (tiring constant effort to explain why "it's just a theory" is a compliment in science rather than derrogatory).

    But ignorance should not be rewarded, scientific definitions are there for anyone to look up, within seconds. Otherwise, the best thing we can do, is to help causes to get the government to make it a LAW that evolution is explained properly to everyone in science class, in primary school. Opting out of evolution due to Genesis is as absurd as opting out of arithmetic because it doesn't fit in with the Trinity. Literacy should no longer just be reading and numeracy, but a basic scientific understanding of the universe and life as appropriate for the age. Plus, classrooms must change, variable ages for a class, depending on aptitude for each particular subject.

    That's my opinion, and my opinion counts for nothing!  Cheesy

    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #37 - November 27, 2011, 02:40 PM

    Quote
    Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?


     Because evolutionary theory has scientific basis.  How ever right they may be All theories based on scientific investigations,  scientific theories/proposals   are questionable. They are not man made Laws.. 

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-lc_VcnAmQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH27ug9YMVY


    Off cousre there are still plenty of questions..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #38 - November 27, 2011, 10:57 PM

    The way I've always thought of it is - a law is a theory that can fit on a t-shirt.

    There really isn't any difference except that laws tend to relate to single events under specific conditions, where as theories cover more complicated phenomena, hence you don't really find laws outside of physics.
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #39 - November 28, 2011, 09:23 PM

    To request something outside of man's creation be called law is a desire carried over by religious upbringing. For you see with science , even with much evidence we are still open to  more information and a change in the theory as we continue to explore and grow. However, in religion there is no space to grow, what is written is law and cannot be disputed or changed. It is best in life to be open to possibilities and not settle with the evidence you have. This is the difference between faith and science.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #40 - November 28, 2011, 10:05 PM

    Hmm thanks for the replies  thnkyu

    I think it becomes quite clear when I drop the notion of absolutes.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgzbUuLMuBM

     
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #41 - November 28, 2011, 10:07 PM

    Let me give it a try.
    Scientific theories  can explain how present things evolved (Big bang, evolution, language, etc.). Laws are describing phenomena, and they predict how things will work out (do this, that will happen).

    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #42 - December 06, 2011, 08:20 PM

    Excellent link there. Seems that Laws can usually be broken down to simple mathematical equations or formulae, ie Newtons laws or Hookes Law. As biology is organic and complex in nature, to draught a formula for evolution would be nigh on impossible. too many variables and unpredictables.

    I hear that even Newtons law of gravity only goes so far, because at the sub-atomic and cosmic scales, even these break down, so thats where Quantum and Einstein and his Relativity come in at the very large and very small. but they are more than suitable for most day=to=day calculations

    Theories, as I understand it, explain observed facts. Eg Evolution (ie biological change over time)is the observed FACT, and Natural Selection is the THEORY that explains HOW that fact occurs.

    I am only using my layman's understanding so if I have made any howling errors, please correct me.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #43 - December 10, 2011, 04:14 AM

    Posted this on FB, but posting this again here:


    Scientific laws are short mathematical equations or concise descriptions of processes that are considered universally applicable or sometimes restricted to certain circumstances.

    Scientific theory is a general principle supported by a substantial body of evidence offered to provide an explanation of observed facts and as a basis for future discussion or investigation.

    Now germ theory, theory of relativity, atomic theory et al are theories too. Neither law nor theory is beyond questioning - anything in science is open to change. Newtons laws for instance, has shown to be mere approximations.

    Now why is TOE not a law? In biology there are very few laws as it's implausible to express the biodiversity on simple mathematical terms. Evolution is the natural result of many laws of physics, chemistry, etc.
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #44 - December 16, 2011, 08:22 PM

    Clear evidence of common ancestry:




    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #45 - December 16, 2011, 09:15 PM

     Cheesy As funny as that is, it actually does support common ancestry.

    Life is what happens to you while you're staring at your smartphone.

    Eternal Sunshine of the Religionless Mind
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #46 - December 16, 2011, 10:28 PM

    LOL! Proof of evolution. Cheesy
  • Re: Why is evolution called 'theory' and not a law?
     Reply #47 - December 17, 2011, 05:24 AM

    Clear evidence of common ancestry:

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    (Clicky for piccy!)


    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    @Crazyislam: i like your avatar Cheesy

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
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