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 Topic: Inspiring words

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  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #60 - December 23, 2009, 04:32 PM
    There's a hungry market out there for someone to take these shoes, we have lots of ex-christian atheist media representatives but not a single ex-muslim one - even muslims would love to see these gladiators at each others necks.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #61 - December 23, 2009, 04:37 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on December 23, 2009, 04:32 PM
    There's a hungry market out there for someone to take these shoes, we have lots of ex-christian atheist media representatives but not a single ex-muslim one - even muslims would love to see these gladiators at each others necks.


    What about Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Irshad Manji, Wafa Sultan, Maryam Namazie, etc etc?
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #62 - December 23, 2009, 04:42 PM
    They're not in the same intellectual league as Dawkins, Hitchins et al
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  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #63 - December 23, 2009, 04:46 PM
    Oh I see what you mean. Yeah true. We haven't had a real anti-Islam intellectual of that level yet. Maybe Ibn Warraq, but I hate the way that guy speaks, really annoying. Salman Rushdie could have been a great polemic against Islam, but I don't think that's his thing really. He's more of a fiction writer.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #64 - December 23, 2009, 04:50 PM
    thats why I am saying Ali Sina is all we have, and as far as I am concerned he's good enough (as long as he ditches his views about UFOs so people take him more seriously Afro)
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #65 - December 23, 2009, 05:08 PM

    The other thing about him is his tone. I think he has absorbed the hellfire, hateful, violent, end-of-times horrific imagery and rhetoric of the Quran and the mullahs and spat it back out at the world - he is at root so apocalyptic, he seems to actually want a violent conflagration.

    Like I said before, he is a cautionary tale of what can happen when you become steeped so deeply in the atmospherics of mullah-Islam. He has lost the plot.

    Back in the day he might have been on good mission - by now enough people have and should come forward to put the dissenters case against Islam, in particular the social ideology of Islam. In some ways, you could almost argue that Ali Sina is actually an asset to the Muslim cause, because he is so dingbat and looney, and bigoted, that he gives them a caricature with which to draw all ex-Muslims.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #66 - December 23, 2009, 05:14 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on December 23, 2009, 03:34 PM
    Fuck credibility, you make it sound like family honour


    I really don't. Its not comparable to face or 'izzat' or honour. At all.

    I'll kind of just be repeating myself if I write another post again saying what I mean. I said it all in that post really, and in my last post too, a little bit.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #67 - December 23, 2009, 05:19 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on December 23, 2009, 03:34 PM
    What Ali Sina does in his spare time doesn't mean anything


    Its not in his spare time though. We're not talking about what his private life. We're talking about what he has on the public record as a public figure. His ideas and attitudes and statements, the most troubling of which are the things he has enunciated over and over again about Muslims being sub-human - even saying things like what berberella said, saying they are 'lower' than crocodiles and snakes.

    Any man or woman who makes statements about individuals being bestial because of their belonging to a particular religion or ethnicity has virtually reached the bottom of the swamp. There is not much further down than that than you can go. He can say he is mimicking rhetoric in the Quran about non Muslims being cattle, apes, monkeys and so on.....but ex-Muslims have to be better than that.

    I thought this was all self-evident, to be honest. The most generous thing I can say about him is that his brain has been addled by the worst of Islam.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #68 - December 23, 2009, 05:22 PM
    Quote from: billy on December 23, 2009, 05:08 PM
    The other thing about him is his tone. I think he has absorbed the hellfire, hateful, violent, end-of-times horrific imagery and rhetoric of the Quran and the mullahs and spat it back out at the world - he is at root so apocalyptic, he seems to actually want a violent conflagration.


    Yep, exactly my point too. He's become a mirror of the very people he opposes. Just read the quote of the OP. That sounds like end-times crap right there. The dude is hallucinating about epic holy war between good and evil. He's simply accepted the dualistic worldview and reversed it.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #69 - December 23, 2009, 05:26 PM
    Somebody should write to him and tell him to calm down. He's doing more damage being so hateful and vile. It's not very scholarly to call somebody a sub-human, sounds like Nazi rhetoric to me. Fucking disgusting.
  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #70 - December 23, 2009, 05:27 PM
    I recall they once had a front page article calling for the deportation of all Muslims from the west. And I mean, all. Including you and me.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #71 - December 23, 2009, 05:36 PM
    Quote from: Kafirist on December 23, 2009, 05:22 PM
    Yep, exactly my point too. He's become a mirror of the very people he opposes. Just read the quote of the OP. That sounds like end-times crap right there. The dude is hallucinating about epic holy war between good and evil. He's simply accepted the dualistic worldview and reversed it.

    Quote from: BlackDog
    Somebody should write to him and tell him to calm down. He's doing more damage being so hateful and vile. It's not very scholarly to call somebody a sub-human, sounds like Nazi rhetoric to me. Fucking disgusting.

     
    Quote from: billy on December 23, 2009, 05:19 PM
    Its not in his spare time though. We're not talking about what his private life. We're talking about what he has on the public record as a public figure. His ideas and attitudes and statements, the most troubling of which are the things he has enunciated over and over again about Muslims being sub-human - even saying things like what berberella said, saying they are 'lower' than crocodiles and snakes.

    Any man or woman who makes statements about individuals being bestial because of their belonging to a particular religion or ethnicity has virtually reached the bottom of the swamp. There is not much further down than that than you can go. He can say he is mimicking rhetoric in the Quran about non Muslims being cattle, apes, monkeys and so on.....but ex-Muslims have to be better than that.

    I thought this was all self-evident, to be honest. The most generous thing I can say about him is that his brain has been addled by the worst of Islam.


    We have all written some deplorable things at one time or other - I am many of these quotes were taken during a moment where he got carried away which he is unfortuately very prone too- he's far from perfect but I think the best we have to engage against the Mullahs.

    Ali Sina answers yours, and others complaints here - See page 80-81 of the debate http://www.scribd.com/doc/9450967/Ghamdi-Sina-Debate
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #72 - December 23, 2009, 05:38 PM
    Shouldn't someone at least try to talk to him and make him aware of it?  I'm sure it has happened.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #73 - December 23, 2009, 05:40 PM
    IsLame

    I might have over generalised about many things, but I've never projected entire groups of people and individuals as being animals or insects.

    Look, all I'm saying is that this guy shouldn't use rhetoric like this.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #74 - December 23, 2009, 05:45 PM
    In any case he should not continue, done in the past, forgiven. We are all primates after all Cheesy
  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #75 - December 23, 2009, 05:46 PM
    Quote from: billy on December 23, 2009, 05:40 PM
    Look, all I'm saying is that this guy shouldn't use rhetoric like this.

    I wish he didnt too, I think the difference is that I am willing to overlook them due to his other skills (did you see that link I just posted, he explains his attitude a little there)
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #76 - December 23, 2009, 06:53 PM
    From what I have read of his site, he doesn't seem to be attacking every muslim but the fundanemtalists, mullahs/imams, and so forth.

    If we actually consider all the death and destruction brought to the world because of Islam, all the messages of hate, oppression of women, etc, it is more so than any other religion or idealogy. It makes sense to use harsh language against muslims to wake them up, IMO. If there were certain people believing in nazism today, would you want it to be sugarcoated that millions of jews were killed because of their idealogy? Similarly things shouldn't be sugarcoated when explained to Muslims about all the 'effects' of Islam.

    I don't hate muslims but I absolutely despise Islam, moreso than any other religion.
  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #77 - December 23, 2009, 06:58 PM
    Quote from: billy on December 23, 2009, 05:19 PM
    Its not in his spare time though. We're not talking about what his private life. We're talking about what he has on the public record as a public figure. His ideas and attitudes and statements, the most troubling of which are the things he has enunciated over and over again about Muslims being sub-human - even saying things like what berberella said, saying they are 'lower' than crocodiles and snakes.

    Any man or woman who makes statements about individuals being bestial because of their belonging to a particular religion or ethnicity has virtually reached the bottom of the swamp. There is not much further down than that than you can go. He can say he is mimicking rhetoric in the Quran about non Muslims being cattle, apes, monkeys and so on.....but ex-Muslims have to be better than that.

    I thought this was all self-evident, to be honest. The most generous thing I can say about him is that his brain has been addled by the worst of Islam.

    We don't have to be better then anything, as I stated before we are not one unified group. He doesn't have to follow any arbitrary rules, he has his right to free speach regardless of whether we like it or not.

    I couldn't care less what the guy says, he doesn't affect the rest of us in anyway.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #78 - December 23, 2009, 07:03 PM
    Quote from: liberated on December 23, 2009, 06:53 PM
    From what I have read of his site, he doesn't seem to be attacking every muslim but the fundanemtalists, mullahs/imams, and so forth.

    If we actually consider all the death and destruction brought to the world because of Islam, all the messages of hate, oppression of women, etc, it is more so than any other religion or idealogy. It makes sense to use harsh language against muslims to wake them up, IMO. If there were certain people believing in nazism today, would you want it to be sugarcoated that millions of jews were killed because of their idealogy? Similarly things shouldn't be sugarcoated when explained to Muslims about all the 'effects' of Islam.

    I don't hate muslims but I absolutely despise Islam, moreso than any other religion.


    Nobody is sugar coating anything. That's not my problem with the Ali Sina style, my problem with is the intentions behind it. And comparing the issues of the modern Islamic world to Nazi Germany is another classic example of what's wrong with the Ali Sina way of thinking. Muslims are not the new Nazis, anybody spouting shit like this needs to check himself, because that's paranoia and dualism gone mad. Because its not about being too harsh... its about being wrong. I could give less of a fuck if Muslims are offended too much, I call Mo a lying pedophile murderer all the time.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #79 - December 23, 2009, 07:17 PM
    Islam is very close to the nazism Kaff.

    - Both are full of anti-semitism
    - Under islamic law, people of book can be allowed to live but atheists, agnostics, apostates, and polytheists must 'convert or die'
    - Islam was spread through force by the destruction of temples, killing of priests, and killing of anyone who dared raise their voice against them
    - Freedom of expression and speech are banned in both
    - Only pro-nazism/pro-islam messages are allowed to be shown on TV etc
    - Both use brainwashing to fool the mass public into believing their message
    - Islam is the greatest threat to the world peace today. The 3rd world war might be a war of islam vs west..

    Btw, I also suggest you read page 80 (about halfway down) -  81 from this::
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/9450967/Ghamdi-Sina-Debate

    Here he describes why he uses harsh language.
  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #80 - December 23, 2009, 08:01 PM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on December 23, 2009, 06:58 PM
    We don't have to be better then anything, as I stated before we are not one unified group.


    Ex-Muslims who want to affect change have to do a minimum of not comparing men and women to animals and declaring them sub-human because of their nominal affiliation to a religion or ethnicity.

    CEMB doesn't hold back on telling the truth about Mohammad, his perversity, violence, cruelty, his sexual relations with a child - or about how Islam works, what it means in practise, how the ''kuffar''-bigotry plays out in the real world, dysfunction, general fucked-upness.

    There are no taboos here. Believing Muslims who read some of the threads and who are conditioned into Islam would get plenty of shock-therapy here - they could start with "Mohammad the Paedophile" thread, for example.

    But individual Muslims are not compared to inhuman beasts in this process. What is the point in deriding and escaping from the intense demonisations of Islam, only to demonise Muslims individually and en-masse? Worst of all, by saying they have no human function and so are incapable of change, because they are animalistic? That would have included virtually everyone on this forum at one time in their life!



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #81 - December 23, 2009, 08:06 PM
    Quote
    What is the point in deriding and escaping from the intense demonisations of Islam, only to demonise Muslims individually and en-masse? Worst of all, by saying they have no human function and so are incapable of change, because they are animalistic? That would have included virtually everyone on this forum at one time in their life!


    Sir, I applaud you.
  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #82 - December 23, 2009, 08:12 PM
    Quote from: liberated on December 23, 2009, 07:17 PM
    Islam is very close to the nazism Kaff.

    - Both are full of anti-semitism
    - Under islamic law, people of book can be allowed to live but atheists, agnostics, apostates, and polytheists must 'convert or die'
    - Islam was spread through force by the destruction of temples, killing of priests, and killing of anyone who dared raise their voice against them
    - Freedom of expression and speech are banned in both
    - Only pro-nazism/pro-islam messages are allowed to be shown on TV etc
    - Both use brainwashing to fool the mass public into believing their message
    - Islam is the greatest threat to the world peace today. The 3rd world war might be a war of islam vs west..



    Wow, you really drank the kool aid didntcha?


    Sorry bro, but my rule about Nazi comparisons are simply the user loses all credibility from that point on ward. You could compare your fucking grandma to hitler if you tried hard enough, finding threads common to practically all ideologies and missionising religions and stating "its just like the nazis!!11" is ridiculous. This is Godwin's law at it's worst, you should know better.

    And above all making comparisons to Nazis, aside from making you look like a complete idiot, also adds nothing to a debate. All you're effectively saying is "those people are evil", kind of childish really.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #83 - December 23, 2009, 08:19 PM
    There are similarities because Nazism, like Islam and Communism is totalitarian. Nazism is infact a form of socialism
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #84 - December 23, 2009, 08:24 PM
    Islam is nothing like Nazism. Islam is a medieval religious cult that formed various different sects and streams of thought. Nazism is purely a modern political ideology. Islamism is a lot like Nazism, yes that's true. But please understand that if you think Islam is Nazism, then Muslims are Nazis, and therefore how should we deal with Nazis? I mean seriously, listen yourselves, it's hysteria and demonisation at it's worst. And above all, its idiotic.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #85 - December 23, 2009, 08:26 PM
    Quote from: Kafirist on December 23, 2009, 08:24 PM
    Islam is nothing like Nazism. Nazism is purely a modern political ideology. Islamism is a lot like Nazism, yes that's true. Please understand that if you think Islam is Nazism, then Muslims are Nazis, and therefore how should we deal with Nazis? I mean seriously, listen yourselves, it's hysteria and demonisation at it's worst. And above all, its idiotic.


    No I was not saying that Muslims are like Nazis.  Don't get me wrong.  What I was saying was that Islam, when practiced and implemented as it should be in a society (with sharia law and all that) starts to resemble many totalitarian ideologies of the 20th century...
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #86 - December 23, 2009, 08:36 PM
    Quote from: billy on December 23, 2009, 08:01 PM
    Ex-Muslims who want to affect change have to do a minimum of not comparing men and women to animals and declaring them sub-human because of their nominal affiliation to a religion or ethnicity.

    CEMB doesn't hold back on telling the truth about Mohammad, his perversity, violence, cruelty, his sexual relations with a child - or about how Islam works, what it means in practise, how the ''kuffar''-bigotry plays out in the real world, dysfunction, general fucked-upness.

    There are no taboos here. Believing Muslims who read some of the threads and who are conditioned into Islam would get plenty of shock-therapy here - they could start with "Mohammad the Paedophile" thread, for example.

    But individual Muslims are not compared to inhuman beasts in this process. What is the point in deriding and escaping from the intense demonisations of Islam, only to demonise Muslims individually and en-masse? Worst of all, by saying they have no human function and so are incapable of change, because they are animalistic? That would have included virtually everyone on this forum at one time in their life!

    Why does Ali Sina's goals have to be the same as ours? He is not part of CEMB, he has different goals to us and is in no way associated with us. He doesn't have to act in any particular way just because he used to be a muslim. He doesn't have to change anything just because you feel all ex-muslim activists should behave in a certain way. He is not obliged to do anything.

    Ali Sina is crazy and deranged, he is not going to listen to reason and even if he was sane he is not obliged to follow any arbitrary rules regardless of whether they make sense or not.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #87 - December 23, 2009, 08:46 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 23, 2009, 08:26 PM
    No I was not saying that Muslims are like Nazis.  Don't get me wrong.  What I was saying was that Islam, when practiced and implemented as it should be in a society (with sharia law and all that) starts to resemble many totalitarian ideologies of the 20th century...


    Maybe you're talking about modern Islamism as espoused by Al-Qaeda, Taliban, Wahabbits, Muslim Brotherhood etc. Fact is any monotheistic religion (including judaism and zoroastrianism) has a very strong totalitarian and repressive streak within in. And this can be used to espouse a totalitarian ideology.. Islam is the worst for this no doubt. But your assertion "implemented as it should be" falls into the trap of defining a 'real islam'. Fact is, out of 1400 years, a vast majority of Muslim states never really established a totalitarian state... in fact I think modern Saudi Arabia and Iran would be the worst - and they're ideologies were formed in the modern era.

    When it come to an "islamic" political system, there is hardly any consensus at all to be able to say "Islam is a nazi type ideology". Islam is the Quran and the hadiths, and I cannot immediately see a proper and coherent idea of a state in the paragraphs of the Quran and/or hadith.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #88 - December 23, 2009, 08:58 PM
    Quote from: Kafirist on December 23, 2009, 08:46 PM
    Fact is, out of 1400 years, a vast majority of Muslim states never really established a totalitarian state... in fact I think modern Saudi Arabia and Iran would be the worst - and they're ideologies were formed in the modern era.


    Are you sure?  Perhaps they were not really Islamic governments but I'm sure that government by a Sultan was totalitarian. Most Muslims states are relatively new, formed as a result of colonialism and European intervention.  They were all regions under various empires for most of their history.

    Quote from: Kafirist on December 23, 2009, 08:46 PM
    When it come to an "islamic" political system, there is hardly any consensus at all to be able to say "Islam is a nazi type ideology". Islam is the Quran and the hadiths, and I cannot immediately see a proper and coherent idea of a state in the paragraphs of the Quran and/or hadith.


    When you have something like sharia telling you how to administer your country, do your banking, how do deal domestic affairs and disputes and even regulates petty things like how one should prepare one's food and what one should eat, it becomes political.  It exists..   
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Inspiring words
     Reply #89 - December 23, 2009, 09:34 PM
    I didn't mean to imply that Islam and nazism are the same, but that they're both fascist/totalitarian idealogies if properly implemented, as ras111 put it.

    It won't be right to say 'muslims are nazis' and that's not what I meant, because there are differences in nazism and islam (such as belief in racial superiority in zazism) but they're both fascist idealogies which have the potential to cause a lot of harm if accepted by a lot of people.
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