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 Poll

  • Question: Total Fail?
  • WORST - 13 (37.1%)
  • Pretty bad, but not really the worst - 15 (42.9%)
  • Islam stinks, but I don't really know enough about the other religions. - 4 (11.4%)
  • Now way! Islam is fuckin AWESOME!!! - 3 (8.6%)
  • Total Voters: 35

 Topic: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?

 (Read 16603 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 3 4« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #90 - December 29, 2009, 03:17 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 29, 2009, 07:44 AM
    Believe it or not, the crusades were actually a response to the taking of Jerusalem by Muslim powers.  Of course they quickly turned into get rich and land grabbing exercises for people.  


    That's very questionable historically speaking. It's not that simple.

    And yes. Christianity did kill, oppress and made a lot of other horrible things in its name. My country's history is a reflection of that. We also had Inquisition here and a lot of people were imprisioned or murdered officially and extra-officially for "heresy". And don't even get me started on how the Natives were - and are - treated.

    I think Islam is in the spotlight now and behaving badly. But there's also a strong anti-Islam movement adding fire to crazy self-defence and ridiculous reactions. It's a all a big bubble of "can you all please stop". And Muslims did get a lot more harcore in the past 20 years. I even heard ppl on this forum stating that.
    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #91 - December 29, 2009, 03:22 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 29, 2009, 02:23 PM
    Cheetah please recommend some good books and documentaries on the Historicity of Jesus Smiley


    Here's one you might try....

    http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/oso/public/content/religion/9780198263975/toc.html


    Quote
    I'm not saying it is the word of truth but they do raise a couple of good points. I still believe Jesus of Nazareth existed but at the same time, being a skeptic, I'm willing to watch every movie and read every book there is to reach a better conclusion. And that's not only when it comes to religion. Here's another example: while I believe in evolution and I have studied the theory of natural selection, I am very interested in Stephen Jay Gould's punctuated equilibrium theory and I am planning to borrow some of his books. Just like Bill Maher said "I preach the doctrine of I don't know".


    Okay, two things, and then I'll stop picking on you.   grin12  Firstly, that film doesn't raise any good points, it merely tells plausible sounding lies.  Secondly, Stephen Jay Gould's theory of punctuated equilibrium is part of modern evolutionary theory, not an alternative to it. 

    Skepticism is fine, just don't become so open minded that your brains fall out and you, like Bill Maher, end up buying into nonsense like the anti-vaccine scares.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #92 - December 29, 2009, 03:28 PM
    Quote from: trumora on December 29, 2009, 03:17 PM
    That's very questionable historically speaking. It's not that simple.

    And yes. Christianity did kill, oppress and made a lot of other horrible things in its name. My country's history is a reflection of that. We also had Inquisition here and a lot of people were imprisioned or murdered officially and extra-officially for "heresy". And don't even get me started on how the Natives were - and are - treated.

    I think Islam is in the spotlight now and behaving badly. But there's also a strong anti-Islam movement adding fire to crazy self-defence and ridiculous reactions. It's a all a big bubble of "can you all please stop". And Muslims did get a lot more harcore in the past 20 years. I even heard ppl on this forum stating that.


    The crusades were bad shit no doubt about it at all. But Islam was also a crusading religion that carried out murderous campaigns of violent conquest. Whilst the societies of what was 'Christendom' are self-critical about that period of their history, even to the point of self-flaggelation, in the Islamic world there is negligible self-relection on the history of religious conquest and imperialism of their religious history. In fact, in the Islamic world, that aspect of history is not only whitewashed, it is lauded, exemplified and paraded as signs of the brilliance and greatness of Islam.

    Also, when you say there is a "strong anti-Islam" movement that is adding flames to the fire, who are you referring to?
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #93 - December 29, 2009, 03:48 PM
    Quote from: billy on December 29, 2009, 03:28 PM
    The crusades were bad shit no doubt about it at all. But Islam was also a crusading religion that carried out murderous campaigns of violent conquest. Whilst the societies of what was 'Christendom' are self-critical about that period of their history, even to the point of self-flaggelation, in the Islamic world there is negligible self-relection on the history of religious conquest and imperialism of their religious history. In fact, in the Islamic world, that aspect of history is not only whitewashed, it is lauded, exemplified and paraded as signs of the brilliance and greatness of Islam.


    Christendom is self-critical now because it was backslashed heavily since more or less the 18th century - the 16th century criticized the Church, but not so much the religion in itself. English is failing me now, but Christianity had a long time to do some needed self-criticism in order to survive. Islam might be passing a fase like that. But as History shows, it won't be pretty.

    Quote
    Also, when you say there is a "strong anti-Islam" movement that is adding flames to the fire, who are you referring to?


    I was not talking about anything or anyone especific. But there are a lot of Islam haters. Islam hating websites, youtube channels and even organizations. Even I was harassed and insulted in the USA and Europe because of post-9/11 hysteria and I'm not even Muslim. When a group is targeted it can have many reactions, one of them is trying to defend themselves, sometimes aggressively. I'm not saying Islam doesn't add a scenario in which an aggressive defence might be persued.




    EDIT: Aaah.... a whole part of my answer was erased....  wacko now I forgot exactly what I wrote....
    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #94 - December 29, 2009, 04:06 PM
    Quote
    Christendom is self-critical now because it was backslashed heavily since more or less the 18th century - the 16th century criticized the Church, but not so much the religion in itself. English is failing me now, but Christianity had a long time to do some needed self-criticism in order to survive. Islam might be passing a fase like that. But as History shows, it won't be pretty.


    Yes of course. We all know the historical processes that led us to where we are today. But we don't need to wait for a reformation of Islam for us to know that violent religious conquest is a bad thing. We know that to be the case. Hence, we don't romanticise the Christian crusades. Islamic culture idolises and views historical Islamic imperial power as an exemplary condition. How much slack do you have to cut those that look at the world and at history like that? A few hundred years? Lets get them in the groove now. Stop romanticising violent religious conquest from the past and re-orientate your attitude in the present. We would be doing them a favour.


    Quote
    I was not talking about anything or anyone especific. But there are a lot of Islam haters. Islam hating websites, youtube channels and even organizations. Even I was harassed and insulted in the USA and Europe because of post-9/11 hysteria and I'm not even Muslim. When a group is targeted it can have many reactions, one of them is trying to defend themselves, sometimes aggressively. I'm not saying Islam doesn't add a scenario in which an aggressive defence might be persued.

     

    Curiously enough, conscientious ex-Muslims are often slandered as contributing to the hatred of Islam by many. By Muslims themselves, and by a part of the Left that cossets the Muslim Brotherhood / Maududi worldview that puts on the mask of multicultural diversity / anti-imperialism / West is inherently Orientalist and Bad.

    This website might be even seen in that context by those people. The rest of it is white noise. Secular democratic societies, civil society, does protect the rights of individual Muslims. It will continue to do so. The ideology of extremists, not so much. In fact, that will continue to be criticised and confronted. In doing so, some Muslims will feel singed. But it will be another favour to Muslims when it happens. These contexts are unhealthy for them especially.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #95 - December 29, 2009, 07:52 PM
    Quote from: kaiwai on December 29, 2009, 06:33 AM
    So hang on, Islam should be given special allowance because its followers are intellectually retarded? that we non-Muslims should give them some leniency because their mind set is 500 years behind the times? how long are we non-Muslims meant to wait? some of us do actually want to be able to live without worrying about people blowing shit up!

    Come on, you're starting to sound like those Muslims on youtube who dredge shit up from 500 years ago - time for everyone on earth to realise it is 2009 and no 'special allowances' should be made to retarded religions with equally retarded followers. Stop constructing a wheel chair ramp and demand Muslims climb those stairs, get on the platform with everyone else and get with the programme.


    dude wtf are you talking about? You sound like you just came off a Nazi party meeting. Are you going now go persecute Muslims or something?

    My response was to Billy after I said Islam is pretty bad but just as crazy as the others out there. And I was showing billy examples of how Christianity at one point was about the same as where Islam is now


    Quote from: billy on December 29, 2009, 03:42 AM
    Which other religion actually says those that leave it should be murdered? Not a crazy lunatic fringe, but the actual mainstream? Which other religion has so many nominal adherents locked into it upon pain of death for dissenting?

    Do you really not think that this one example makes it, at least a teensy-weensy bit more mentally unstable than other religions as practised today?



  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #96 - December 29, 2009, 10:22 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah
    Okay, two things, and then I'll stop picking on you.   grin12

    On the contrary, please do keep on. I'm not here to win any debate or score any points. That's absolutely not my aim. I joined this forum to get as much knowledge as possible and that only can be achieved if you guys keep correcting me  Smiley.

    Quote from: Cheetah
    Firstly, that film doesn't raise any good points, it merely tells plausible sounding lies.

    Quote
    Skepticism is fine, just don't become so open minded that your brains fall out

    I don't think I'm excessively open-minded. You make it sound as if I'm Alex Jones or something grin12. Like I said, I genuinely believe that there was a Jesus of Nazareth but I can't certainly rule out theories that argue otherwise. It's an 8 for me, 10 being absolutely certain that he existed and 0 being absolutely certain that he didn't. Also, I'm a solid 9 on the existence of God (10 being certain he doesn't exist). It's just an innate nature of mine which I don't think is unhealthy at all. However I can tell you for sure I'm a 10 on Elvis being alive, everywhere and everything!!
    As for the movie. I admit I haven't done much research on the historicity of Jesus so thank you for pointing it out. I will try to watch it again soon and then discuss with you the points that raised my doubt at the time Smiley.

    Quote from: Cheetah
    Secondly, Stephen Jay Gould's theory of punctuated equilibrium is part of modern evolutionary theory, not an alternative to it.

    I don't know what you mean by modern evolutionary theory. From my understanding of it, evolution as a process has now been observed and is therefore a scientific fact. Evolution by natural selection is a the most plausible and widely-accepted theory hypothesized by Darwin in On the Origin of Species. Punctuated equilibrium is an evolutionary theory that is pretty much in harmony with Darwin's theory except when it comes to the specific mechanisms of the evolutionary process. In order to explain the gaps in the fossil record, it proposes that there must have been rapid, random, and sudden changes along the way. This of course contradicts Darwinian gradualism which even Darwin himself questioned.
    Many evolutionary biologists incorporate the theories but some do not. Both Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett have challenged Gould for different reasons.
    Again, if I made any mistakes then please do correct me.

    Quote from: Cheetah
    like Bill Maher, end up buying into nonsense like the anti-vaccine scares.

    I ain't no idolater but I have to defend him on this one. He was simply misunderstood. He said on his show (which I never miss) and on Jay Leno that it was taken out of context and that he is no conspiracy theorist. If you haven't watched any of that then please do watch this interview from 05:10 onwards so that you can hear it from the man himself. In the interview he refers to this survey which proves he didn't simply "buy into scares".

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXRPPbCQW0c
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #97 - December 29, 2009, 10:25 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on December 29, 2009, 02:05 PM
    On topic - no, not the shittiest religion ever, I think the Aztecs have that one in the bag.

    What did they believe in?
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #98 - December 29, 2009, 10:33 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on December 29, 2009, 10:25 PM
    What did they believe in?


    actual human sacrifices
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #99 - December 29, 2009, 10:34 PM
    Quote from: _truth_ on December 29, 2009, 10:33 PM
    actual human sacrifices

    sometimes hundreds daily

  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #100 - December 29, 2009, 10:38 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on December 29, 2009, 10:25 PM
    What did they believe in?


    Human sacrifice.

    Quote
    I don't think I'm excessively open-minded. You make it sound as if I'm Alex Jones or something . Like I said, I genuinely believe that there was a Jesus of Nazareth but I can't certainly rule out theories that argue otherwise. It's an 8 for me, 10 being absolutely certain that he existed and 0 being absolutely certain that he didn't. Also, I'm a solid 9 on the existence of God (10 being certain he doesn't exist). It's just an innate nature of mine which I don't think is unhealthy at all. However I can tell you for sure I'm a 10 on Elvis being alive, everywhere and everything!!
    As for the movie. I admit I haven't done much research on the historicity of Jesus so thank you for pointing it out. I will try to watch it again soon and then discuss with you the points that raised my doubt at the time


    Fair enough.  Apart from the Elvis thing.   Tongue

    Quote
    I don't know what you mean by modern evolutionary theory. From my understanding of it, evolution as a process has now been observed and is therefore a scientific fact.


    Its both a fact and a Theory.  You can't have a scientific Theory to explain something unless its been observed to begin with.

    Quote
    Evolution by natural selection is a the most plausible and widely-accepted theory hypothesized by Darwin in On the Origin of Species. Punctuated equilibrium is an evolutionary theory that is pretty much in harmony with Darwin's theory except when it comes to the specific mechanisms of the evolutionary process. In order to explain the gaps in the fossil record, it proposes that there must have been rapid, random, and sudden changes along the way. This of course contradicts Darwinian gradualism which even Darwin himself questioned.


    Only if you understand gradualism to mean constant speedism.  The two aren't necessarily the same thing, and it in no way contradicts the Theory of Evolution to posit that evolution takes place at varying rates.  Punctuated equilibrium increases our understanding of how Darwinian evolution happens, it does not contradict it.


    Quote
    I ain't no idolater but I have to defend him on this one. He was simply misunderstood. He said on his show (which I never miss) and on Jay Leno that it was taken out of context and that he is no conspiracy theorist. If you haven't watched any of that then please do watch this interview from 05:10 onwards so that you can hear it from the man himself. In the interview he refers to this survey which proves he didn't simply "buy into scares".


    I can't watch the vid at the moment, but I'll take your word for it.  Apologies to Bill Maher then.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #101 - December 29, 2009, 11:12 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah
    Its both a fact and a Theory.  You can't have a scientific Theory to explain something unless its been observed to begin with.

    I see. To be honest with you, I thought evolution is a fact and natural selection is the theory explaining its mechanism  Embarrassed . I would appreciate some further input from you and anyone else.

    Quote from: Cheetah
    Only if you understand gradualism to mean constant speedism.  The two aren't necessarily the same thing, and it in no way contradicts the Theory of Evolution to posit that evolution takes place at varying rates.  Punctuated equilibrium increases our understanding of how Darwinian evolution happens, it does not contradict it.

    You're absolutely right Cheetah. Thanks.

    Quote from: Cheeta
    I can't watch the vid at the moment, but I'll take your word for it.  Apologies to Bill Maher then.

    Forget about Maher. Do read the article though.
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #102 - December 29, 2009, 11:15 PM
    I fairly know a good bit about most religions (in terms of their stupid parts and parts that are prove it's fake), and is the WORST. Christianity and Judaisam, there's still alcohol! Muslim have all their shit AND MORE.
    Closets after closets
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #103 - December 29, 2009, 11:21 PM
    Quote
    I see. To be honest with you, I thought evolution is a fact and natural selection is the theory explaining its mechanism 


    Well, you're mostly right.  Evolution is a fact, and natural selection is one of the mechanisms by which evolutionary theory posits that it takes place, its just not the only one - there's sexual selection and genetic drift also.  They're all part of Darwin's Theory of Evolution.

    You should read Dawkins book The Greatest Show on Earth, it explains it all.   Afro
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #104 - December 29, 2009, 11:25 PM
    Quote from: _truth_ on December 29, 2009, 10:33 PM
    actual human sacrifices


    yeah, but if they're chav's (Council Housing and violent), does anyone care?
    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #105 - December 29, 2009, 11:28 PM
    Quote from: kaiwai on December 29, 2009, 11:25 PM
    yeah, but if they're chav's (Council Housing and violent), does anyone care?


    Yes goddamn it, those organs can fetch a lot of money in the black market.
    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #106 - December 29, 2009, 11:32 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on December 29, 2009, 11:21 PM
    Well, you're mostly right.  Evolution is a fact, and natural selection is one of the mechanisms by which evolutionary theory posits that it takes place, its just not the only one - there's sexual selection and genetic drift also.  They're all part of Darwin's Theory of Evolution.

    You should read Dawkins book The Greatest Show on Earth, it explains it all.   Afro

    Will most certainly do. Smiley
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #107 - December 29, 2009, 11:34 PM
    Iraqi Atheist

    Also check out Jerry A. Coyne's "Why Evolution is True". He has a lecture on Youtube, summary of the book.
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #108 - December 29, 2009, 11:37 PM
    Quote from: ras111 on December 29, 2009, 11:28 PM
    Yes goddamn it, those organs can fetch a lot of money in the black market.


    Yeah, but considering how much glue/solvents sniffed and jack daniels consumed - I would surprised if they're still useful.
    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #109 - December 30, 2009, 07:35 AM
    Quote from: AisaLagtaHAI on December 29, 2009, 11:15 PM
    I fairly know a good bit about most religions (in terms of their stupid parts and parts that are prove it's fake), and is the WORST. Christianity and Judaisam, there's still alcohol! Muslim have all their shit AND MORE.


    Well then, let me introduce you to the Mormons
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #110 - December 30, 2009, 07:46 AM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 29, 2009, 11:32 AM
    This might be obvious to everyone else but I just thought about this. The best way to study religion of the old is to study religion of the new.


    I've long said that if you really wanted to understand the 'prophets', look to present day cult leaders. That is your psychological profile.
    Take Lia Eden, Luc Jouret, Rev Moon, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Charlie Manson, whoever, and put them back in time in some ignorant backwater located in a good strategic location....and this would be the council of ex-Manson Family right now.
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #111 - December 30, 2009, 09:21 AM
    Quote from: BlackDog on December 29, 2009, 11:34 PM
    Iraqi Atheist

    Also check out Jerry A. Coyne's "Why Evolution is True". He has a lecture on Youtube, summary of the book.

    Just found the video. Thx very much.
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #112 - December 30, 2009, 10:49 AM
    Quote from: Homer on December 29, 2009, 10:38 AM
    And in case you are wondering, no I dont think terrorism is inherently any worst from a strictly moral perspective than bombing infrastructure or population centers with conventional weapons.


    You don't think that there is a moral difference between:

    (a) bombing infrastructure/industrial targets knowing there is an exceptionally high risk of producing large amounts of civilian casualties as a result (but civilian casualties are not the main objective)

    and

    (b) bombing civilian targets with the express purpose of maximizing civilian casualties?

    I think there is a difference between those two, although I will acknowledge that conventional military forces routinely (and knowingly) target civilians for punitive reasons (or out of cowardice, or just because they can), particularly in national liberation wars/wars of conquest-- and it's been that way for a very long time, and is unlikely to ever change.
    fuck you
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #113 - December 30, 2009, 11:01 AM
    Quote from: Q-Man on December 30, 2009, 10:49 AM
    although I will acknowledge that conventional military forces routinely (and knowingly) target civilians for punitive reasons (or out of cowardice, or just because they can), particularly in national liberation wars/wars of conquest-- and it's been that way for a very long time, and is unlikely to ever change.

    The allies did it when they bombarded Hamburg Wink.
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #114 - December 30, 2009, 11:03 AM
    Sure you're not thinking of Dresden?
    fuck you
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #115 - December 30, 2009, 11:07 AM
    I think they carpet bombed both.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #116 - December 30, 2009, 11:29 AM
    No I meant Hamburg. The bombing of Dresden was more infamous and has inflicted more casualties.
    I mentioned Hamburg because they chose it only because it was more of a working-class area and the houses are more closely-packed in order to inflict as much casualties as possible with as few bombs as possible.
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #117 - December 30, 2009, 11:47 AM
    there is a poll here that may relate to the subject here discussed
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=8090.0
  • Re: Is Islam the shittiest religion ever?
     Reply #118 - December 30, 2009, 11:21 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on December 30, 2009, 10:49 AM
    You don't think that there is a moral difference between:

    (a) bombing infrastructure/industrial targets knowing there is an exceptionally high risk of producing large amounts of civilian casualties as a result (but civilian casualties are not the main objective)

    and

    (b) bombing civilian targets with the express purpose of maximizing civilian casualties?

    I think there is a difference between those two, although I will acknowledge that conventional military forces routinely (and knowingly) target civilians for punitive reasons (or out of cowardice, or just because they can), particularly in national liberation wars/wars of conquest-- and it's been that way for a very long time, and is unlikely to ever change.


    but I did say inherently.

    In general, I look at warfare in terms of practicality, which can/should be tempered with ethics. I also see a difference when talking about total war, and non state/organization terrorism. In general terrorism is a tactic, so how indiscriminate it is, the motives and intentions,  the practicality, how the actions are viewed  by the perpetrators, and so forth, are factors.

    I didnt mean to get hung up on semantics
    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
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