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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Should men have the right to have a baby aborted when they're not ready for it?
  • Yes - 10 (19.6%)
  • No - 41 (80.4%)
  • Total Voters: 51

 Topic: Men's right to abortions

 (Read 55640 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 16 17 1819 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #510 - October 12, 2014, 12:30 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 12, 2014, 12:22 PM
    So if a girl gave me a blowjob should she feel guilty that millions of potential children have died in her throat? Should every menstrual cycle be a mourning period where you lose an egg,. and one more child has not been born that could have been?



    Now you've gone and confused me lol  wacko

    I think it's ok to abort only in the very early stages of gestation, such as those pills that are available, but any time after that i dont think either parent has a right to physically and surgically remove the baby from the womb, thats all i mean..

  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #511 - October 12, 2014, 12:31 PM
    Quote from: NYerInSaudi on October 12, 2014, 12:20 PM
    QSM, I see my miswording in the first statement.  I don't believe anyone has the right to force a woman to abort. I do also feel that woman should not be allowed to abort when the father wants to raise the child, unless there is a medical reason that would causes severe harm or death to the mother.

    So you're fine with forcing a woman to be pregnant and give birth in certain circumstances?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #512 - October 12, 2014, 12:31 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 12, 2014, 12:24 PM
    So you do in fact believe that someone other than yourself should have the right to decide whether or not you have an abortion?


    I do not believe that anyone has the right to force me to have an abortion if I don't want to have one.  I do believe that if I were healthy and had no medical conditions that were known that would have a probable outcome of maternal death, that legally I should be obligated to carry the pregnancy to term and give the child to the bio father. Of course, in this instance I would demand legal protection from being responsible for the child and would also demand that the father be 100% responsible for all prenatal,  birth and post natal care.
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #513 - October 12, 2014, 12:33 PM
    So let me see if I understand. You should not be forced to have an abortion against your will, but you should be forced to carry a child to term, birth it and be a mother for the rest of your life against your will?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #514 - October 12, 2014, 12:35 PM
    Quote from: INcePtion on October 12, 2014, 12:23 PM
    See, Im confused. But that's alright.
    You say "women should not be forced.."
    But " women should not be allowed to abort.."


  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #515 - October 12, 2014, 12:36 PM
    Quote from: suki on October 12, 2014, 12:30 PM

    Now you've gone and confused me lol  wacko

    I think it's ok to abort only in the very early stages of gestation, such as those pills that are available, but any time after that i dont think either parent has a right to physically and surgically remove the baby from the womb, thats all i mean..



    I can see where you're coming from. At a certain stage of development there are ethical issues, but in the legal time limit for abortion I don't see any. I might not even see any after the legal limit to a certain extent, I'd have to brush up on my knowledge on foetus development.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #516 - October 12, 2014, 12:36 PM
    Quote from: NYerInSaudi on October 12, 2014, 12:27 PM
    Most women experience no complications from pregnancy or child birth.

    Depends how you define a complication. I'd call profound physical and hormonal changes, some irreversible, sometimes life-threatening, unparalleled emotional changes, changes that will interfere with her career, her plans, her future, her social life, her free time, her independency, for years to come; I'd consider these things very much "complications".
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #517 - October 12, 2014, 12:40 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on October 12, 2014, 12:31 PM
    So you're fine with forcing a woman to be pregnant and give birth in certain circumstances?


    Yes. I know that sounds crass. I'm sorry, but both parties knew the risks.

    If you look at it through a jaded prospective and a male view, imagine this: You, as the male, believe life begins at conception and abortion at any stage is murder.  The woman you slept with comes to you and tells you she is pregnant and she isn't sure what she wants to do, but she is leaning towards aborting. You tell her that this is wrong and that you don't agree with it. You tell her that you'll raise the child and she won't have to worry about the child as you'll take care of it. She tells you she needs time and will let you know.  A week later she texts you and says she is getting the abortion as she doesn't wantto deal with the emotions behind giving up a baby. Now you are calling and trying to talk to her to tell her that she can visit and spend time with the baby as much as she wants, but she won't reply or take calls. She has the abortion and now you have to just suck up your emotions knowing that this woman just murdered your child and there wasn't and isn't anything you can do about it.

    How would you feel? Is that right?
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #518 - October 12, 2014, 12:42 PM
    Well so long as you're happy to abide by that yourself without forcing other women to, go ahead.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #519 - October 12, 2014, 12:44 PM
    Quote from: NYerInSaudi on October 12, 2014, 12:40 PM
    Yes. I know that sounds crass. I'm sorry, but both parties knew the risks.

    If your philosophy is based on both parties knowing the risks, the idea that the man has firm grounds to force things to go his way is undermined. He knew the risks, according to you. To say abortion is not one of those risks is special pleading
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #520 - October 12, 2014, 12:44 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 12, 2014, 12:33 PM
    So let me see if I understand. You should not be forced to have an abortion against your will, but you should be forced to carry a child to term, birth it and be a mother for the rest of your life against your will?


    Incorrect. I do not believe you should be forced to be a mother for the rest of your life. Just as I do not believe that a man should be forced to be father when he wanted the abortion but she didn't.

    In these cases there should be legalities involved. If the woman didn't want the child but the man did then legal paperwork is drawn up to protect the woman from any obligation to the child.  The same for when a man doesn't want the child but the woman does.  
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #521 - October 12, 2014, 12:46 PM
    That risk only exists because we gave women the full right in the matter. If it was something that legally required both parties to agree to then it wouldn't be a risk in the same sense.
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #522 - October 12, 2014, 12:47 PM
    So being forced to carry a child to term and birthing it, all against your will, is fine so long as you aren't forced to raise it?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #523 - October 12, 2014, 12:47 PM
    So as it stands, it appears most of you are ok with the status quo. The woman decides the fate of the pregnancy and potentially of her male sexual partner.  She can decide to allow, deny or force fatherhood on the man, but does not have to ever be in that position herself.
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #524 - October 12, 2014, 12:48 PM
    Quote from: NYerInSaudi on October 12, 2014, 12:46 PM
    That risk only exists because we gave women the full right in the matter. If it was something that legally required both parties to agree to then it wouldn't be a risk in the same sense.

    But it's not a zero sum game. The man is not the one who has to be pregnant and give birth. Obviously the relevant rights are gonna be skewed towards the one doing all the heavy lifting.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #525 - October 12, 2014, 12:49 PM
    Quote from: NYerInSaudi on October 12, 2014, 12:47 PM
    So as it stands, it appears most of you are ok with the status quo. The woman decides the fate of the pregnancy and potentially of her male sexual partner.  She can decide to allow, deny or force fatherhood on the man, but does not have to ever be in that position herself.

    Yeah, biology sucks sometimes.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #526 - October 12, 2014, 12:50 PM
    Quote from: NYerInSaudi on October 12, 2014, 12:47 PM
    So as it stands, it appears most of you are ok with the status quo. The woman decides the fate of the pregnancy and potentially of her male sexual partner.  She can decide to allow, deny or force fatherhood on the man, but does not have to ever be in that position herself.

    I haven't said if I'm fine or not fine. The only time I gave my views was in response to suki where I stated that at a certain point of development there are ethical issues.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #527 - October 12, 2014, 12:50 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 12, 2014, 12:47 PM
    So being forced to carry a child to term and birthing it, all against your will, is fine so long as you aren't forced to raise it?


    Let's be honest,  women aren't typically considering abortion because they don't want to be pregnant or give birth. That decision is made based on her ability to raise and support a child.  How having a child would affect her future. So removing the burden of raising or providing for the child is removing most of the reason  woman considers having an abortion in the first place
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #528 - October 12, 2014, 12:52 PM
    I think it's better to have a child when you are ready and can properly look after one, not before.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #529 - October 12, 2014, 12:55 PM
    yeah i agree it's the womans right to choose simply because it's her body and her burden, still i think abortion in later stages is cruel and the rights of the unborn child need to be taken into consideration also somewhere down the line..
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #530 - October 12, 2014, 12:57 PM
    36-44 weeks of pregnancy and a few weeks of recovery from birth vs. A lifetime of being a parent and everything that is involved? I wouldn't say that being pregnant and giving birth is more than being the parent.

    The woman was aware that pregnancy could happen. As was the man. Why is it perfectly ok for the woman's biggest fear have to be whether or not this sex will end with a $400 abortion, but the man's has to be whether this will end with child support, mandated health insurance, education tuition, etc.?

  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #531 - October 12, 2014, 12:59 PM
    Quote from: suki on October 12, 2014, 12:55 PM
    yeah i agree   "it's the woman's right to choose simply because it's her body and her burden",...

    THAT IS IT...PERIOD...

     the only thing others could do is suggest /help  medically, emotionally or other wise..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #532 - October 12, 2014, 12:59 PM
    I agree, it's better to become a parent when you are ready. Since this is all hypothetical who's to say that there aren't some circumstances where the man is ready?  Financially stable and willing to raise a child, alone.  Why should he be denied the right to have his child?
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #533 - October 12, 2014, 01:00 PM
    How is it fair to give birth against your will?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #534 - October 12, 2014, 01:04 PM
    Quote from: NYerInSaudi on October 12, 2014, 12:57 PM
    36-44 weeks of pregnancy and a few weeks of recovery from birth vs. A lifetime of being a parent and everything that is involved? I wouldn't say that being pregnant and giving birth is more than being the parent.

    You talk as though pregnancy is just some little thing you carry on your shoulder and forget about. When in fact, it's one of the biggest commitments a human can make and the most profound, emotionally demanding, physically transformative periods of change a human will experience. And it is a lucky pregnant woman that doesn't have to put her career on hold or give it up entirely, or just not have one to begin with. This is not a small demand. It is a massive one.

    Quote from: NYerInSaudi on October 12, 2014, 12:57 PM
    The woman was aware that pregnancy could happen. As was the man. Why is it perfectly ok for the woman's biggest fear have to be whether or not this sex will end with a $400 abortion, but the man's has to be whether this will end with child support, mandated health insurance, education tuition, etc.?

    Again, this isn't a zero sum game. There is not always perfect symmetry in the biological logistics of the genders. Pregnancy disproportionately affects a woman more than the man.

    Maybe when we invent a way for men to be pregnant, or go back in time and alter the course of mammalian evolution, or grow new humans entirely outside of the womb, then we can talk about men exercising choice over whether the human they have conceived is born or not.

    As it stands now, there is no way in hell a man can fairly choose whether a woman has an abortion or not. It cannot be justified. You've got nothing to bargain with.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #535 - October 12, 2014, 01:07 PM
    Imagine you are  45 year old man. You've been divorced for 3 years because your wife decided that she didn't want to have children,  but you did. You started a relationship with a young woman and a few months intothe relationship she got pregnant. You are financially and emotionally stable. You want to have children.  She tells you she doesn't want to keep the baby because she just got her law degree and didn't want to derail her career when it was just starting. You offer to take full responsibility for the child and provide her with legal documents stating so. You even promise her access to the child whenever she wishes.  She says she can't handle that and still aborts.  

    It's not a typical case where some young kids got a little too happy and oops a positive test.
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #536 - October 12, 2014, 01:09 PM
    You are talking to a woman who has been pregnant 7 times, birthed 5 chikdren and the last 2 pregnancies were high risk. I do not view pregnancy or parenthood lightly. That is one of the reasons why i do not think it is ok for a woman to have the right to decide to take fatherhood from a man who is willing and wants to be a father
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #537 - October 12, 2014, 01:11 PM
    Quote from: NYerInSaudi on October 12, 2014, 01:07 PM
    Imagine you are  45 year old man. You've been divorced for 3 years because your wife decided that she didn't want to have children,  but you did. You started a relationship with a young woman and a few months intothe relationship she got pregnant. You are financially and emotionally stable. You want to have children.  She tells you she doesn't want to keep the baby because she just got her law degree and didn't want to derail her career when it was just starting. You offer to take full responsibility for the child and provide her with legal documents stating so. You even promise her access to the child whenever she wishes.  She says she can't handle that and still aborts.  

    It's not a typical case where some young kids got a little too happy and oops a positive test.

    It would depend on the man. Obviously it's going to be incredibly painful. Could be devastating. Could be emotionally traumatic. He might never forgive her. It's not that people don't understand this.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #538 - October 12, 2014, 01:11 PM
    Quote from: NYerInSaudi on October 12, 2014, 01:09 PM
    You are talking to a woman who has been pregnant 7 times, birthed 5 chikdren and the last 2 pregnancies were high risk. I do not view pregnancy or parenthood lightly. That is one of the reasons why i do not think it is ok for a woman to have the right to decide to take fatherhood from a man who is willing and wants to be a father

    No one is saying you view it lightly.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Men's right to abortions
     Reply #539 - October 12, 2014, 01:14 PM
    Quote from: NYerInSaudi on October 12, 2014, 01:07 PM
    Imagine you are  45 year old man. You've been divorced for 3 years because your wife decided that she didn't want to have children,  but you did. You started a relationship with a young woman and a few months intothe relationship she got pregnant. You are financially and emotionally stable. You want to have children.  She tells you she doesn't want to keep the baby because she just got her law degree and didn't want to derail her career when it was just starting. You offer to take full responsibility for the child and provide her with legal documents stating so. You even promise her access to the child whenever she wishes.  She says she can't handle that and still aborts.  

    It's not a typical case where some young kids got a little too happy and oops a positive test.

    There are plenty of children that need homes. There are other avenues for the man to get what he wants.

    A grown ass man has no justification for expecting that young law student to give up her career and play incubator for him merely because he happened to ejaculate inside of her. Having an orgasm is not sufficient grounds for joint-ownership over the thing it hits.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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