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 Topic: Is Islam responsible?

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  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Is Islam responsible?
     OP - January 02, 2010, 12:18 AM
    So we have yet another failed terrorist plot and academic, political and media types alike have begun the discussion about the 'causes' of radicalisation. I have been reading such discussions with interest now for years. But more recently a part of me wants to say, loud and clear, YES Islam is the problem. Luckily mot Muslims choose not to follow Islam in its true sense but taken literally Islam does encourage hatred of non-Muslims, it does expres a desire to conquer the world and it does instill anger, hatred, fear and violence into its followers. Of course, most white liberals are too scared to say that but isn't it true?
    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #1 - January 02, 2010, 12:21 AM
    Yes. But most violence is amongst themselves.

    So it is not necessarily the hatred of others...
    Challenge All Ideologies but don't Hate People.
  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #2 - January 02, 2010, 12:23 AM
    Well to put blame on one singular reason for such a complex issue like global terrorism is definitely wrong IMO. I think Islam is a significant contributing factor, in particular the concept of martyrdom. A young man like Umar Mutallab would never commit such an act if he did not strongly believe in the Islamic concepts of martyrdom and the rewards Allah gives to those who engage in jihad.

    So Islam responsible? Partially, yes.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #3 - January 02, 2010, 12:26 AM
    Quote from: pakman on January 02, 2010, 12:18 AM
    So we have yet another failed terrorist plot and academic, political and media types alike have begun the discussion about the 'causes' of radicalisation. I have been reading such discussions with interest now for years. But more recently a part of me wants to say, loud and clear, YES Islam is the problem. Luckily mot Muslims choose not to follow Islam in its true sense but taken literally Islam does encourage hatred of non-Muslims, it does expres a desire to conquer the world and it does instill anger, hatred, fear and violence into its followers. Of course, most white liberals are too scared to say that but isn't it true?

    Not sure what the colour of the skin has to do with it, but yes, I agree with the conclusion as a strong contributory factor.
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  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #4 - January 02, 2010, 12:28 AM
    Of course there are other factors but Islam is hardly the religion of peace and does encourage such an outlook. In fact, the key issue for me is something Samual huntington once said which is 'the Muslims are a people obsessed with their superiority yet perturbed by their inferiority'. Meaning because Islamist types think they are the best of mankind and Islam should rule the world, reality does not match their self-perceptions. And that creates the frustrations and antagonism.
    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #5 - January 02, 2010, 12:30 AM
    Yes to an extent. Also there is the political motives and also a lot of other shit.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #6 - January 02, 2010, 12:30 AM
    It is relevant in a British context. White lefty liberals are too scared to call a spade a spade for fear of being un-pc. Others (European, Americans) don't suffer from such a complex in quite the same way.
    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #7 - January 02, 2010, 12:31 AM
    Quote from: pakman on January 02, 2010, 12:28 AM
    Of course there are other factors but Islam is hardly the religion of peace and does encourage such an outlook. In fact, the key issue for me is something Samual huntington once said which is 'the Muslims are a people obsessed with their superiority yet perturbed by their inferiority'. Meaning because Islamist types think they are the best of mankind and Islam should rule the world, reality does not match their self-perceptions. And that creates the frustrations and antagonism.


    That might be true for some, but it's a bit too psychoanalytical. Look at Umar Mutallab, does he look like a guy whose really thinking such complex issues like "the Muslims are a people obsessed with their superiority yet perturbed by their inferiority"? Doubt it. He's probably just an angry, lonely young man who became a fertile ground for concepts like martyrdom for a greater cause.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #8 - January 02, 2010, 12:37 AM
    I think that occurs at a more sutble level. After attending a few speeches where Mullahs tell how Muslims are the greatest of mankind you look around you and don't see it. That is where conspiracy comes in and tells you the evil west is holding your people back and preventing you from claiming your true position as leaders of the world.
    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #9 - January 02, 2010, 12:37 AM
    Quote from: pakman on January 02, 2010, 12:30 AM
    It is relevant in a British context. White lefty liberals are too scared to call a spade a spade for fear of being un-pc. Others (European, Americans) don't suffer from such a complex in quite the same way.

    What has the colour of skin have to do with it, if as you say European & Americans dont suffer the same 'complex' ?  Its a cultural difference issue.
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  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #10 - January 02, 2010, 12:42 AM
    Quote from: pakman on January 02, 2010, 12:37 AM
    I think that occurs at a more sutble level. After attending a few speeches where Mullahs tell how Muslims are the greatest of mankind you look around you and don't see it. That is where conspiracy comes in and tells you the evil west is holding your people back and preventing you from claiming your true position as leaders of the world.


    Yeah, its definitely there. Like you said, on a subtle level. But only real espoused beliefs and strong feelings can make someone this young want to end his life and kill others. Islam, at it's inception, provided a cult of martyrdom in warfare that no religion ever has. That combined with teen-angst issues, combined with real political grievances is the true cause of it. Islamic ideas of jihad and martyrdom are like gunpowder at the hands of angry inferior men.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #11 - January 02, 2010, 12:45 AM
    Quote from: Kafirist on January 02, 2010, 12:42 AM
    Yeah, its definitely there. Like you said, on a subtle level. But only real espoused beliefs and strong feelings can make someone this young want to end his life and kill others. Islam, at it's inception, provided a cult of martyrdom in warfare that no religion ever has. That combined with teen-angst issues, combined with real political grievances is the true cause of it. Islamic ideas of jihad and martyrdom are like gunpowder at the hands of angry inferior men.


    But how much of these political grievances are of their own doing?
    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #12 - January 02, 2010, 01:07 AM
    Sorry Islame - I should have said ' a very White British thing'.
    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #13 - January 02, 2010, 02:11 AM
    I don't think anyone can deny that there is a great deal of neurosis and anxiety caused by the cognitive dissonance between what Islam teaches the individual and the reality of the world as it actually is that manifests itself in various sullen moods, resentments, grievances, hatreds and aggressions.

    These are the mental atmospherics in which the easily assembled Lego bricks of actual jihadi activity can be constructed by those with a will to do so - stage by stage - from mild apologist through to double-speak Maududi / Qutb Ummah dissimulating dogamtists - to the terrorist brainwashers and cells of jihadis that form.

    There is a continuum there, no doubt about it.
     
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #14 - January 02, 2010, 02:14 AM
    Quote from: pakman on January 02, 2010, 01:07 AM
    Sorry Islame - I should have said ' a very White British thing'.

    I take it that you are excluding Hindus, Sikhs and others who have been assimilated here for generations then?  Its a European thing, and given Europes history with the Nazis, i can see why it occurs.  Again nothing to do with skin colour.
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  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #15 - January 02, 2010, 02:21 AM
    I kind of understand where pakman is coming from IsLame, although it is something of a stereotype, I guess he means the Guardian reading ideological left wingers who come from fairly priveliged backgrounds themselves, who set an agenda about what the terms of debate are in mainstream Britain regarding Islamic extremism and its roots.

    I would say, though, that I do think this is changing, and there is a strong part of the Left that is challenging these attitudes -- even saying most boldly that the struggle against Islamic nationalism and grievance culture and Islamism and jihadism is the natural cause of the secular Left.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #16 - January 02, 2010, 02:27 AM
    Yep, I thought that is what he meant.  Just wish he'd described it in that fashion, as it appeared to include the BNP types too.  An over-generalisation that I personally find offensive.
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #17 - January 02, 2010, 02:58 AM
    Islam is a huge factor in it however there are also other factors. Such sociopolitical reasoning and economic factor to it too.

    Al Qaueda annouced that with the recent Nigerian terrorist attempting to bomb a plane was a direct retaliation of US sending missiles to bomb Al Qaueda bases I believe in Yemen

    The initial brainwashing was done through the preachings of Islam but the motive for many are more so political reasons.

    In lots of other cases, Al Qaueda has mentioned their reasons for terrorist attack for the US's support of Israel over Palestine.

    Its just easy for them to get recruits by attracting young Muslims men with Islam as the Quran has many verses that allows the killings of non believers. Once they get the recruits, then they use them for whatever purpose they need them for. Whether its to spread Islam through violence or retaliate against the NATO forces using suicide bombers
  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #18 - January 02, 2010, 03:01 AM
    Quote from: _truth_ on January 02, 2010, 02:58 AM
    Islam is a huge factor in it however there are also other factors. Such sociopolitical reasoning and economic factor to it too.

    Al Qaueda annouced that with the recent Nigerian terrorist attempting to bomb a plane was a direct retaliation of US sending missiles to bomb Al Qaueda bases I believe in Yemen

    The initial brainwashing was done through the preachings of Islam but the motive for many are more so political reasons.

    In lots of other cases, Al Qaueda has mentioned their reasons for terrorist attack for the US's support of Israel over Palestine.

    Its just easy for them to get recruits by attracting young Muslims men with Islam as the Quran has many verses that allows the killings of non believers. Once they get the recruits, then they use them for whatever purpose they need them for. Whether its to spread Islam through violence or retaliate against the NATO forces using suicide bombers


    Yep. But the key is that core Islamic teachings lay the mental and ethical foundations for such manipulation to be possible.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #19 - January 02, 2010, 03:08 AM
    Quote from: Kafirist on January 02, 2010, 03:01 AM
    Yep. But the key is that core Islamic teachings lay the mental and ethical foundations for such manipulation to be possible.


    very true

    But to play the devil's advocate for a second

    You also have to look at the people that is getting recruited. Their education level vs their financial state. I know that in the big terrorist attacks a lot of them were highly educated people. But the majority that gets recruited come from poverty states with very basic education.

    So now could it be the socioeconomic state of the Middle East that is the problem? Also there aren't many terrorists from European Muslim Community (Bosnia and Kosovo) and Easter Asian countries.   
  • Re: Is Islam responsible?
     Reply #20 - January 02, 2010, 03:17 AM
    Quote from: _truth_ on January 02, 2010, 03:08 AM
    But to play the devil's advocate for a second

    You also have to look at the people that is getting recruited. Their education level vs their financial state. I know that in the big terrorist attacks a lot of them were highly educated people. But the majority that gets recruited come from poverty states with very basic education.

    So now could it be the socioeconomic state of the Middle East that is the problem? Also there aren't many terrorists from European Muslim Community (Bosnia and Kosovo) and Easter Asian countries.   


    Yeah, the financial state often is a factor in more regionally based terror attacks, especially in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

    But I think they are really side issues when you get to the root of the problem. There are many poor, illiterate people in the world. And many people with serious grievances. You really cannot have such a large amount of people being recruited to commit suicide attacks unless you have a population with those spiritual and religious foundation. The only group in the world that has commited suicide attacks on a regular basis are the Tamil Tigers, but they are a regional insurgent group and a lot of their suicide attacks were for very specific assassination purposes.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

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