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 Topic: New french law - no yelling at your wife

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  • New french law - no yelling at your wife
     OP - January 05, 2010, 11:43 PM
    France will become the first country in the world to ban 'psychological violence' within marriage later this year.

    The new law, which would also apply to co-habiting couples, would see people getting criminal records for insulting their loved ones during domestic arguments.

    Electronic tagging would be used on repeat offenders, according to the country's prime minister, Francois Fillon, who announced the law.
     

    If it proves successful, it could be introduced in other European countries including Britain.

    But critics dismissed the measure as a 'gimmick' which would be impossible to implement.

    The law is particularly aimed at protecting women who currently suffer the worst attacks of this kind, ranging from off-hand comments about their appearance to threats of physical violence.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1240770/France-introduce-new-law-banning-psychological-violence-marriages.html#ixzz0blD6qZPs
    "By the One in Whose Hand my soul is, were you not to commit sins, Allah would replace you with a people who would commit sins and then seek forgiveness from Allah; and Allah would forgive them." [Saheeh Muslim]

    "Wherever you are, death will find you, Even in the looming tower."
    - Quran 4:78
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #1 - January 05, 2010, 11:59 PM
    Oh dear. Plus tagging. WTF
    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #2 - January 06, 2010, 12:00 AM
    It is going to be interesting to see what happens when Muslims try to apply the marriage advice as found in 4:34 Smiley
    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #3 - January 06, 2010, 12:00 AM
    What about the yelling wife??
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #4 - January 06, 2010, 12:02 AM
    Quote
    What about the yelling wife??

    Or the violent wife. I hate how they always ignore male victims.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #5 - January 06, 2010, 12:12 AM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on January 06, 2010, 12:02 AM
    Or the violent wife. I hate how they always ignore male victims.


    You mean there should be a law against chronic nagging?
    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #6 - January 06, 2010, 12:42 AM
    Things just got way harder for french pimps.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #7 - January 06, 2010, 03:05 AM
    Why couldnt I have been born in France :(

    Stupid Britain letting other cultures do as they please  finmad
    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #8 - January 06, 2010, 06:37 AM
    Given how big a fan you are of having the government criminalize everything, I think you should have been born in Stalinist Russia.
    fuck you
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #9 - January 06, 2010, 07:26 AM
    Im not a fan of that :p

    When have I been a fan of criminalising everything? Just things which affect another person negatively.
    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #10 - January 06, 2010, 07:32 AM
    Which could potentially be anything-- so far you've cited burquas, smoking, barbeques, and now yelling at people. I guess I should have a criminal record for having insulted you here.
    fuck you
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #11 - January 06, 2010, 09:22 AM
    Even though I hate being yelled at, this is taking it a bit far.   wacko

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #12 - January 06, 2010, 09:28 AM
    I neve actually stated wether or not I support this, but that I would like to live in france where Burkhas and religious items in schools are banned. A lot of people in the UK actually do want them banned too. If you want to wear the Burka, then feel free live in Saudi Arabia or Iran. We dont need them in the west. Religion needs to be completely removed from school, law and state.

    I am very sure that Islamic countries are highly tolerant of western women dressed in bikinis on a hot summers day right? Actually, no they are not.

    Multiculturalism has caused a complete mess in Britain, we need to follow france's example of making sure that secularism comes before religion.

    I see zero point in moving to a western country and still wanting to wear a burkha. Women in Islamic countries are forced to do this out of fear, not choice.
    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #13 - January 06, 2010, 09:48 AM
    The article has nothing to do with the burqua. The article you responded to with "Why couldnt I have been born in France" is about a law criminalizing spouses yelling/making nasty comments about each other. So if you weren't endorsing this law, then pardon me for not being able to divine your logical non-sequiturs.
    fuck you
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #14 - January 06, 2010, 10:12 AM
    Quote from: ExHindu on January 06, 2010, 09:28 AM
    I neve actually stated wether or not I support this, but that I would like to live in france where Burkhas and religious items in schools are banned. A lot of people in the UK actually do want them banned too.

    Problem is that banning doesn't solve anything. The divisions between various "groups" remain, they are only taken out of the public sphere - sometimes not even that. What is really needed is an in-depth public examination and discussion of the underlying reasons why certain "groups" decide to insulate themselves (completely or partially) from the rest of the society.
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #15 - January 06, 2010, 10:14 AM
    I have wished that I had been born in france, or been able to live there since earlier than I joined this forum, I just simply felt like stating that in this thread.

    My post was offtopic relating mainly to French policies other than this one, but I'm sorry if it confused you.

    I also have no problem with people not yelling at each other. I do prefer it to those that yell and are abusive, even to their immediate families.

    Quote from: Kenan on January 06, 2010, 10:12 AM
    Problem is that banning doesn't solve anything. The divisions between various "groups" remain, they are only taken out of the public sphere - sometimes not even that. What is really needed is an in-depth public examination and discussion of the underlying reasons why certain "groups" decide to insulate themselves (completely or partially) from the rest of the society.


    France have actually denied french citizenship to Muslim women who choose to wear the burka. Regardless, their country is doing far better than the UK is, so whatever laws and policies they have, they seem to be getting them right. I wouldnt be allowed to walk around in public wearing a ski mask, neither should women have to wear the Burka.

    In france, you are expected to live by their culture if you move there, not by your old one. This is what I like most about the place.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OerhhsbvZ4
    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #16 - January 06, 2010, 10:20 AM
    Quote from: Kenan on January 06, 2010, 10:12 AM
    Problem is that banning doesn't solve anything. The divisions between various "groups" remain, they are only taken out of the public sphere - sometimes not even that. What is really needed is an in-depth public examination and discussion of the underlying reasons why certain "groups" decide to insulate themselves (completely or partially) from the rest of the society.


    What do you mean, Kenan-- blanket criminal bans work great! Banning guns has all but eliminated violent crime in Mexico and Brazil, and banning drugs has done an excellent job of reducing drug use and addiction in the West. Whenever there is a problem, the best solution is always to have the government enact a ban-- it always works and never has unintended consequences. We will never be free until the government bans everything that some segment of the population finds objectionable.
    fuck you
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #17 - January 06, 2010, 10:37 AM
    Of course the bans dont work. Thats why you see so many women refusing to do what their culture tells them to, and walking around in Afganistan and Saudi Arabia dressed in bikinis like this:

    http://www.brazilian-bikinis.org/ProductImages/berrydog/05-thong-bikini-15.jpeg


    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #18 - January 06, 2010, 10:41 AM
    So you mean a ban backed by extreme consequences?

    Like torture, beating and death?  Roll Eyes
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #19 - January 06, 2010, 10:44 AM
    Nah, a ban backed by the law of that country, so in the case of France, a simple fine would suffice Smiley

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy8RyiPQuM0&feature=related
    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #20 - January 06, 2010, 10:49 AM
    And as Q pointed out, it then wouldn't work.  Ban's that are only backed by fines, let alone added imprisonment, don't work.

    It only works in those countries because of how they go about enforcing them.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #21 - January 06, 2010, 11:03 AM
    Yea ok, but at least secular people dont have to put up with seeing burkhas and other religious in their schools and workplaces.

    I have no problem with people wearing whatever they like in their homes, but if I hate seeing religious garments and culture everywhere that I go in a country that is supposed to be secular.

    They can wear them if they like, so long as I can refuse them access to, or have them kicked out of wherever I am.

    And we seriously have to stop building bloody mosques, temples, gurudwaras etc all over Britain. 

    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #22 - January 06, 2010, 03:40 PM
    What has burkhas got to do with couples yelling at each other??
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #23 - January 06, 2010, 07:22 PM
    It has nothing to do with this law, but it is a major issue in French secular law today. I also support laws where counters are being taken against spouse abuse. If I ever married anyone, it would never be so that I can yell and swear at them, that I would normally do to people who I absolutely hate, not someone who I am meant to love unconditionally.

    I believe that this is mostly a problem in arranged marriages among backward muslims and hindus, at least if it were to happen in a normal marriage, I am sure the person being abused would most likely leave, but in the arranged religious marriages, they would stay regardless of abuse due to 'honour towards their family', and also be too sacred to report the abuse. 

    At least my dad would have been jailed by the time I were 10 if we had this law and tagging system back then. I have zero sympathy or respect for men yell and swear at their families.   

    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #24 - January 06, 2010, 07:27 PM
    I don't think anyone here is advocating for verbal abuse in famlies. It just seems a bit odd and totally contrary to liberty to criminalize it. Sometimes couples have yelling matches, even happy couples. Sometimes a man might go "you dumb bitch, thats my TV!!" and perhaps he will regret it immediately after, but shit happens, no?

    And its not like men are the only ones doing the yelling, as far as my life experiences go, its the women who yell and men quitely take it.  wacko Not that I mind, I think thats a woman's privelage, she does make the babies. I just don't think she should be put in prison for it.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #25 - January 06, 2010, 07:39 PM
    I think it would be very easy to differentiate between petty arguments over the TV remote, and what abusive people can get into with their families.

    Women have periods and mood swings, thats the way they are. People like my dad would end up jailed, so I support this regardless.
    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #26 - January 06, 2010, 07:43 PM
    Wrong, it's actually very hard.  You have this very idealised version of how events would play out.  In reality this law is open to abuse.   

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #27 - January 06, 2010, 07:44 PM
    Even serious relationship arguments can be very heated and still cannot be considered necessarily abusive. Verbal abuse in relationship is not a matter of the law, its a matter of education and teaching people that they should never take abusive crap from anyone.

    Dragging police into a home everytime a dad or boyfriend loses his tempers and spouts of some nasty words is plain ridiculous. Unless France is aiming to the secular equivalent of a shariah state...
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #28 - January 06, 2010, 07:45 PM
    Quote from: ExHindu on January 06, 2010, 07:39 PM

    Women have periods and mood swings, thats the way they are. People like my dad would end up jailed, so I support this regardless.



    That kind of blanket thinking is why it took so long for women to be allowed jobs in certain industries, men have mood swings too.  IMS, Irritable man syndrome, believe me it exists.

    Not all women have mood swings, I do, but some don't.  Roll Eyes


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: New french law - no yelling at your wife
     Reply #29 - January 06, 2010, 07:51 PM
    I believe the quote by francois Fillon in the article, but I cant copy paste on my phone. It is just like the inciting hatred laws we have in the UK. I believe that only the most severe cases would be affected where one partner is being seriously psychologically abused. I do want to wait and see how the law turns out first though.

    Women who dont have mood swings are awesome Smiley. 

    I idealise over a world where no ones rights are violated in their own home, and this is going one step closer towards that.

    I see that the law does extend to women as well as men though, so some peoples posts in this thread were misleading.
    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
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