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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hello people

 (Read 114110 times)
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  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #30 - January 09, 2010, 04:12 AM

    ''Circumcision has no health benefits on its own.''

    You're wrong. For a much more up-to-date and much broader in depth analysis please visit:

    http://www.circinfo.net/index.html

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #31 - January 09, 2010, 04:21 AM

    ras111, Since the Quran says Jinns exist then........they exist. In fact I have a theory: Jinns are made up of antimatter - the matter we know must exist but have no idea where it went or where it is - maybe it went into a dimension of space we cannot see or detect (a la string/M-theory). I can't gurantee I'll be able to prove my theory though.  Wink

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #32 - January 09, 2010, 04:21 AM

    Islame, there is evidence that male circumcision has some medical benefits.

    Perhaps, it also comes with disadvantages (the reason evolution/Allah gave it to us in the first place), as well as the obvious surgical risks.

    Quote
    I wasn't aware that according to Islam 'Humans are created perfect'.

    I guess there are disadvantages from being made out of mud (quran 15:26), but I would have hoped an omnipotent/omnicient  creator could have done a little better.

    Quote
    I dont beleive that miracle cures can be found in honey, black seed and fly wings


    Sahih Bukahri 592: I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "There is healing in black seed for all diseases except death."

    A man came to the prophet & said, "My brother has got loose motions. The Prophet said, Let him drink honey. The man came again & said, "I made him drink honey but that made him worse?? The Prophet said, "Allah has said the Truth, & the abdomen of your brother has told a lie". Bukhari Vol 7, Number 614

    The erroneous discovery of the healing properties of flys wings is here;

    Allah's Apostle said, "If a fly falls in the vessel of any of you, let him dip all of it (into the vessel) and then throw it away, for in one of its wings there is a disease and in the other there is healing (antidote for it) Bukhari No 673

    And if none of that cures your grandpa's baldness, you ought to try camel piss:

    "Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine.

    They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, he ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die"According to Anas, Volume 8, Bk 82, No794

    Quote
    Although honey does taste rather good on toast

     
    You wanna try it slow-roasted with gammon  Yum Yum

    btw: what really is so wrong with eating pork. The West eats pork and suffers no more long term damage from it than it does with beef or other meats.  In fact the BMA are yet to issue any guidelines against the eating of pork.  You sure its not some throwback from plagiarised religions, or poor conditions of pigs at the time?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #33 - January 09, 2010, 04:26 AM

    ''Circumcision has no health benefits on its own.''

    You're wrong. For a much more up-to-date and much broader in depth analysis please visit:

    http://www.circinfo.net/index.html


    No. You are wrong.

    Circumcision is an ancient, barbaric practice with no benefits on its own: Brian Morris, the man behind the site you posted is a hack.

    Quote
    No evidence to support routine circumcision
    September 12, 2009

    The key point of the recent statement on circumcision from the Royal Australasian College of Physicians is that the college believes there is no evidence to support routine circumcision of newborn and infant males (''Doctors circumspect on circumcision'', September 11).

    Your article sends the dangerous message that circumcision prevents HIV transmission. It is vital that everyone engage in safe sexual practices such as condom use, whether circumcised or not. Recent reports of circumcision offering some protection against HIV infection in Africa relate to circumcision of adult males, not of infants.

    The stated benefits of protection against urinary tract infection are marginal, and do not justify mass circumcision. Our changing understanding of the relationship between urinary tract infection and chronic renal disease further weakens the case for routine circumcision.

    There is evidence that circumcision does result in memory of painful experiences, and is not quite as simple and low risk as your report suggests.

    The college's statement is not anti-circumcision, but clearly states that parents should be informed of risks and benefits, and then supported in their decision. When circumcision is undertaken it should be with appropriate anaesthesia, and by a skilled operator who can minimise the risk of side effects.

    The option of delaying the decision to circumcise is one way of dealing with the ethical and potential legal issues of undertaking an elective procedure in a minor. The procedure is not to be equated with vaccination, either in its delivery or its effectiveness.

    Professor Brian Morris, quoted in your report, is not a member of the college. He is not and has not been engaged as a reviewer for the college.

    David Forbes Chairman, pediatrics and child health policy and advocacy committee, Royal Australasian College of Physicians, Sydney


    from: http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/no-evidence-to-support-routine-circumcision-20090911-fkna.html

    Here's a book review of his pro-male-genital-mutilation book:
    http://historyofcircumcision.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&Itemid=0

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #34 - January 09, 2010, 04:32 AM

    Quote
    I don't know why God made it permissible for husbands to lightly strike there wives as a last resort. Domestic violence of course occurs in all cultures. I think it's wrong therefore to blame the Quran for domestic violence in Islamic households. Although I do not fully understand the reasons behind this verse, this point alone is not enough for me to conclude Islam is false.


    Just because the omniscient god put down in his eternal, perfect book that it's okay to beat your wife, no reason not to keep worshipping him. Also, slavery, he's okay with that too. Let's bring that back, since it is god's eternal word.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #35 - January 09, 2010, 04:36 AM

    Just because the omniscient god put down in his eternal, perfect book that it's okay to beat your wife, no reason not to keep worshipping him. Also, slavery, he's okay with that too. Let's bring that back, since it is god's eternal word.

    Why not? If you're allowed to have sex with them as well as your 4 allotted wives

    Quran 33:52"It is not permitted thee to take other wives hereafter, nor to change thy present wives for other women, though their beauty charm thee, except slaves whom thy right hand shall possess."

    The prophet took allahs advice literally, and hey presto he got his son Ibrahim from Maria (his domestic coptic christian slave)  Afro

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #36 - January 09, 2010, 04:38 AM


    I don't know why God made it permissible for husbands to lightly strike there wives as a last resort. Domestic violence of course occurs in all cultures. I think it's wrong therefore to blame the Quran for domestic violence in Islamic households. Although I do not fully understand the reasons behind this verse, this point alone is not enough for me to conclude Islam is false.


    Can I ask you which word in the verse means lightly?

    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #37 - January 09, 2010, 04:39 AM

    ''I guess there are disadvantages from being made out of mud (quran 15:26), but I would have hoped an omnipotent/omnicient  creator could have done a little better.''

    I think it's actually a stroke of genius creating every living thing from water. Simplicity is elegance. As for the mud, maybe it was rich in organic goodies.

    Thanks for proving my point that a lot of hadith are complete nonsense. It's no surprise really - if the words of the bible i.e the word of God can be so corrupted - what's to prevent the sayings and actions of the Prophet from being corrupted? One might say it's even to be expected. Lucky for Muslims, God takes it upon himself to preserve and protect the Quran from such corruption. Indeed the Quran has stood the test of time with no two recogniosed Arabic texts differing by a single word.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #38 - January 09, 2010, 04:48 AM

    Thanks for proving my point that a lot of hadith are complete nonsense. It's no surprise really - if the words of the bible i.e the word of God can be so corrupted - what's to prevent the sayings and actions of the Prophet from being corrupted? One might say it's even to be expected. Lucky for Muslims, God takes it upon himself to preserve and protect the Quran from such corruption. Indeed the Quran has stood the test of time with no two recogniosed Arabic texts differing by a single word.


    Umm... you do know the Quran was compiled years after Mo died (rather ungracefully, with no succession plan), right?

    They're a bit heavy, but anyone interested might want to check these links out:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/199901/koran

    http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/debate/part1.htm

    http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/ISLAM/QURAN.HTM

    http://www.islam4all.com/new_page_34.htm


    What verifiable proof do you have that Quran is the word of God?

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #39 - January 09, 2010, 04:51 AM

    Quote
    I think it's actually a stroke of genius creating every living thing from water. Simplicity is elegance. As for the mud, maybe it was rich in organic goodies.

     

    I think he was so busy creating the rest of the earth that he forgot the recipe!

    It tells us in the quran that "we are created from earth (11:61), sometimes from dry clay (15:26,28,33, 17:61, 32:7), sometimes from nothing (19:67), sometimes not from nothing (52:35), sometimes from wet earth (23:12), or from mire (38:71), sometimes from water (25:54, 21:30, 24:45), sometimes from dust (3:59, 30:20, 35:11) or even sometimes from the dead (30:19, 39:6)".

    Quote
    Thanks for proving my point that a lot of hadith are complete nonsense. It's no surprise really - if the words of the bible i.e the word of God can be so corrupted - what's to prevent the sayings and actions of the Prophet from being corrupted? One might say it's even to be expected. Lucky for Muslims, God takes it upon himself to preserve and protect the Quran from such corruption.

    Hmmm.  Some 30 years after the original quran was compiled, the 3rd caliph  Uthman, ordered that all copies be gathered due to widespread corruption of the text. They studied each text, and what was deemed as original was compiled to make the current version. He was an ordinary man, and it was compiled on the same basis on the hadith were compiled

    All of the older manuscripts were destroyed to prevent further corruption. 

    The only issue now being we have no way of doing a textual study to see how accurate the final version was to the original.   In fact the weaker hadith have Aish saying that parts of the Quran ( the ones to do with stoning women for adultery) were devoured by a goat, but thats another story!


    Quote
    Sunan Ibn Maaja, Book of Nikah, (Hadith # 1934)  The verse of stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept under my bed. When the Messenger of Allah expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper.


    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #40 - January 09, 2010, 05:04 AM

    Actually God consistently encourages freeing of slaves in the Quran. Maybe he wanted to leave it to the human race to abolish slavery - and you know what we did. When slaves were kept in Muhammads day the Quran orders the followers of Islam to deal kindly and justly with them.

     
    Regarding Muhammad, it's probably true that Maria was given to him as a slave. But most Muslims beleive that he soon after married her.

    Regarding the circumcision issue, we could be here for next week digging out various opinions.

    I don't have proof the Quran is the word of God but it's something I strongly beleive.



    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #41 - January 09, 2010, 05:16 AM

    Actually God consistently encourages freeing of slaves in the Quran. Maybe he wanted to leave it to the human race to abolish slavery - and you know what we did.


    Strange isn't it how a merciful, omniscient, omnipotent god didn't help out more in that region, it was only one of the worst, long held practices of human beings. Instead, he focused in his eternal, perfect book on how to kill, enslave Jews, Christians, Pagans and others, and how exactly he's going to roast people in hell for eternity (because he's merciful and omniscient) and how many women men can marry, and how many women are equal to 1 man, and how women should cover themselves.

    Slavery is still a practice today, and mostly in Muslim countries, including Sudan, where the Islamic regime is practicing genocide on native non-Muslim and Muslim Africans.

    When slaves were kept in Muhammads day the Quran orders the followers of Islam to deal kindly and justly with them.


    How nice of god to let that practice continue.

    Regarding Muhammad, it's probably true that Maria was given to him as a slave. But most Muslims beleive that he soon after married her.


    Yeah, same like Saffiyah. Killed her tribe, then took her as a wife, but I'm sure she asked for it, yep.

    Regarding the circumcision issue, we could be here for next week digging out various opinions.


    Yeah, especially since the pro-circumcision side has no valid arguments.

    I don't have proof the Quran is the word of God but it's something I strongly beleive.


    Good point.

    "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." -Mark Twain

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #42 - January 09, 2010, 05:19 AM

    Islame, well I think it's quite likely he created living beings from more than just one ingredient don't you? Also as far as I am aware the 'water' is the only one mentioned for 'all living beings' all the rest are specific for humans thus perhaps suggesting water is of fundamental importance?

    You are asking me to provide proof for the Quran whereas you have no proof for the Uthman caliphate story. At least I can say that the Quran has stood the test of time in that no two recognised Arabic texts differ by a single word - that's a least a bit impressive, surely?


    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #43 - January 09, 2010, 05:22 AM

    Quote
    I don't have proof the Quran is the word of God but it's something I strongly beleive.


    Welcome Abu to the forum. I congratulate you on your willingness to hear what ex-Muslims have to say about Islam.

    You summed it very well there in your quote: "I don't have proof the Quran is the word of God but it's something I strongly beleive". That is called "FAITH". But as a scientist, do you really beleive in such thing? Can you accept a judge ruling to excute a man just because he had faith that he comitted a crime? Or would you rather have him look for evidence first? Especially, if you were the person who is about to het killed because a judge believes that he had comitted a crime?

    ...
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #44 - January 09, 2010, 05:30 AM

    Allat
    Actually,Islam brought a great deal of good to the region, for example preventing the burial of female children alive which was a practice of Pagan Arabs. It also undeniably gave a woman many rights which she didnt have befor i.e. for divorce, right to education etc.

    ''Yeah, same like Saffiyah. Killed her tribe, then took her as a wife, but I'm sure she asked for it, yep.''

    You keep asking me to provide proof the Quran is true. Where's your proof that these stories are true?

    Since you insist on letting the circumcision debate drag on here's some more info you can claim was written by a hack:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE4BG7CM20081217

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #45 - January 09, 2010, 05:33 AM

    And regarding "circumutilation", you will have to excuse me as these days my muse for new word creation is very active, I don't think you can justify your health benifits claim if only less than 20% of males are mutilated. The uncirced 80% seem healthy! Also, don't you think that animal male penises are better protected with their hood intact? I like to give example of cars when I think of genital mutilations. Which car is better looking and better protected you think, the one that have no hood with the engine visibile, or the one that still intact as the manufacturer made?

    ...
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #46 - January 09, 2010, 05:44 AM

    Allat
    Actually,Islam brought a great deal of good to the region, for example preventing the burial of female children alive which was a practice of Pagan Arabs. It also undeniably gave a woman many rights which she didnt have befor i.e. for divorce, right to education etc.

    ''Yeah, same like Saffiyah. Killed her tribe, then took her as a wife, but I'm sure she asked for it, yep.''

    You keep asking me to provide proof the Quran is true. Where's your proof that these stories are true?

    Since you insist on letting the circumcision debate drag on here's some more info you can claim was written by a hack:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE4BG7CM20081217


    Just wanted to ask you again why you think that Muslim men are only allowed to beat/strike/hit their wives lightly when there is no indication that it must be light?

    "We were married by a Reform rabbi in Long Island. A very Reform rabbi. A Nazi."-- Woody Allen
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #47 - January 09, 2010, 05:45 AM

    RIBS, thanks for your message. If a man was accused of murder I would require absolute undeniable proof that he is guilty before being ok with excecutuion. Regarding matters after we die I have faith God is perfect in his Judgement and of course do not need any proof from him.

    Regarding the circumcision debate,I honestly didn't know it was such a big deal. I'm circumcised, my three brothers are circumcised, all my cousins are circumcised - it honestly was no big deal for us. besides isn't there at least some evidence that it can be beneficial - the reason why I see the debate as pointless - we would just keep going round in circles.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #48 - January 09, 2010, 05:52 AM

    Angel54, the only thing I can say here is that all scholars on Islam agree that any hitting should be light and should not leave a bruise or mark. We also know the prophet never hit any of his wives and should try to follow his example. Not the answer you were looking for but you backed me into a corner.


    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #49 - January 09, 2010, 05:54 AM

    Since you insist on letting the circumcision debate drag on here's some more info you can claim was written by a hack:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE4BG7CM20081217


    I just read it and I would not mutilate my boys because a news article said so. Here are quotes from that article Abu...

    Quote
    Studies supporting circumcision to reduce HIV transmission had all been done in Africa and U.S. studies were less clear.


    Quote
    But they noted that the American Academy of Pediatrics does not recommend routine circumcision for newborns.


    Quote
    "It is also noteworthy that circumcision rates have been declining in the U.S., possibly because of lack of Medicaid coverage."


    and what about the Quran? Surely you know that there are at least 3 clear verses that say Allah have created man perfect. One particular verse that I like to use on the topic describing how Iblis is telling Allah that he will encourage people to change his creation.

    ...
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #50 - January 09, 2010, 06:00 AM

    Oh, so Muslims don't have to provide proof of anything, but everyone else does?

    All the things mentioned here about Safiyya, Aisha, Maria etc. are all right out of the Quran, the Hadiths and the various works by recognized Islamic scholars. You're welcome to look these stories up and verify everything for yourself.

    Quote
    Since you insist on letting the circumcision debate drag on here's some more info you can claim was written by a hack:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE4BG7CM20081217


    From the Reuter's article:

    Quote
    "In the United States, circumcision is less common among African American and Hispanic men, who are also the subgroups most at risk of HIV," they wrote in a commentary.


    Of course, there are socio-economic factors that could have slightly more to do with these stats compared to the removal of a piece of flesh in infancy.

    There's no proof of causation presented in here anyway. Saying that circumcision reduces HIV (on its own, without any condoms, which are what actually can prevent HIV transmission), is akin to saying that cutting off women's breasts prevents breast cancer. Even if it's true in a miniscule number of cases (which it's most likely not, but if we give it a chance to even be considered), does it justify circumcising all male infants? Especially considering that we have much better, more effective ways of reducing the chances of HIV infection?

    That article also states:

    Quote
    the American Academy of Pediatrics does not recommend routine circumcision for newborns.

    and

    Quote
    Studies supporting circumcision to reduce HIV transmission had all been done in Africa and U.S. studies were less clear.


    Again, no causation, not even any clear correlation.


    Some articles that some people reading this who actually want to learn about facts and not myths about male circumcision may find interesting:
    http://www.cirp.org/pages/whycirc.html
    http://www.nocirc.org
    http://www.intactamerica.org
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/male-circumcision-and-the_b_249728.html

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #51 - January 09, 2010, 06:03 AM

    ''I just read it and I would not mutilate my boys because a news article said so''

    Neither would I, but again I don't view it as mutilation and like I said neither does any other male Muslim or Jewish relative/firend of mine. In addition there are several scientific studies in journals which say there are some benefits although I do accept that these points are a matter of debate.


    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #52 - January 09, 2010, 06:11 AM

    I've been dying to ask a Quran-only Muslim, since you don't follow Hadiths, how do you how to pray, how do you know the details of Mohammed's life, and therefore how do you know what is Sunnah?

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #53 - January 09, 2010, 06:16 AM

    Allat,
    ''All the things mentioned here about Safiyya, Aisha, Maria etc. are all right out of the Quran, the Hadiths and the various works by recognized Islamic scholars. You're welcome to look these stories up and verify everything for yourself.''

    Actually, none of it is from the Quran. These stories are all from the hadith - if you read this blog from the start, you will see that I reject most hadith even the so called 'sahih' hadith since they are wirtten by men and therefore can't be trusted. Indeed these hadiths often contradict each other as well as the Quran



    ''Even if it's true in a miniscule number of cases, does it justify circumcising all male infants?''  
    No-one is saying it should be - every parent should make there own choice. I indicated from the very start when Islame first asked the question that I was not 100% certain if it was compulsory in Islam - my argument is that I don't personally know any circumcised male who view it as 'mutilation', and that there is at least some evidence that it can be beneficial.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #54 - January 09, 2010, 06:20 AM

    Allat
    Actually,Islam brought a great deal of good to the region, for example preventing the burial of female children alive which was a practice of Pagan Arabs. It also undeniably gave a woman many rights which she didnt have befor i.e. for divorce, right to education etc.

    ''Yeah, same like Saffiyah. Killed her tribe, then took her as a wife, but I'm sure she asked for it, yep.''

    You keep asking me to provide proof the Quran is true. Where's your proof that these stories are true?

    Since you insist on letting the circumcision debate drag on here's some more info you can claim was written by a hack:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE4BG7CM20081217


    Common now Abu.... that is just an insult to my intelligence! I first heard that nonsense at school when I was about 10 years old, and I remember saying to our Deen teacher, how did Mohamed Rasulolah's mother survive, then started enumrating all the well known female poets and people of power like Al-Khansa, Hind Bint Otba, etc ect.

    I mean that must have been a single event that a crazy guy did once or maybe in a tribe that got extinct in a couple of decades, right? Or else how did those arabic tribes survive with only male gender?  Smiley

    ...
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #55 - January 09, 2010, 06:23 AM

    Allat,
    ''All the things mentioned here about Safiyya, Aisha, Maria etc. are all right out of the Quran, the Hadiths and the various works by recognized Islamic scholars. You're welcome to look these stories up and verify everything for yourself.''

    Actually, none of it is from the Quran. These stories are all from the hadith - if you read this blog from the start, you will see that I reject most hadith even the so called 'sahih' hadith since they are wirtten by men and therefore can't be trusted. Indeed these hadiths often contradict each other as well as the Quran


    So, if a hadith "contradicts" the Quran it is false. And if a Quranic verse is factually incorrect or inhumane, it is okay, am I getting that right?

    What is your criteria for which Hadiths are "true" and which are "false", among the widely accepted Sahih hadiths?

    Besides, you claimed Aisha was older, where is your proof of that? Several recognized hadiths state that Aisha was 6 when married, 9 when Mo had sex with her. If you don't accept those Hadiths, why not? Just because it makes your conscience uncomfortable?

    I'm sure you probably know a thing or two about cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias.

    How much do you have to ignore in order to keep your conscience comfortable with the teachings of Islam (and Abrahamic mythologies in general)?

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #56 - January 09, 2010, 06:25 AM

    ''I've been dying to ask a Quran-only Muslim, since you don't follow Hadiths, how do you how to pray, how do you know the details of Mohammed's life, and therefore how do you know what is Sunnah?''


    I already stated that there are certain hadiths that extend on prayer, charity and other rulings on the Quran - I accept these hadiths although I know there may be minor differences in the way I pray etc. compared to other Muslims - I don't see this as a big problem.
    To be honest I don't know what is correct Sunnah - I believe it is up to us as indivduals to use our logic and intellect to decide which Sunnah are correct.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #57 - January 09, 2010, 06:33 AM

    By the way, welcome to the forum. Though I do not respect or accept Islam, or any organized religion, I appreciate that you as a person are willing to be here and be more honest than most religious people. So, welcome. Intellectual argumentation is common here, I do hope you have a thick skin and an open mind.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #58 - January 09, 2010, 06:34 AM

    ''What is your criteria for which Hadiths are "true" and which are "false", among the widely accepted Sahih hadiths?

    Besides, you claimed Aisha was older, where is your proof of that? Several recognized hadiths state that Aisha was 6 when married, 9 when Mo had sex with her. If you don't accept those Hadiths, why not? Just because it makes your conscience uncomfortable?

    I'm sure you probably know a thing or two about cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias.

    How much do you have to ignore in order to keep your conscience comfortable with the teachings of Islam (and Abrahamic mythologies in general)?''

    The Quran may be inhuamne according to your reasoning. But it's not to mine or a billion other Muslims who you will claim are barbaric or delusional.

    Since the hadiths often contradict the word of God I can not really trust any of them - I find the reasoning pretty simple - there are no mind games involved

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #59 - January 09, 2010, 06:38 AM

    RIBS, actually the burial of female children alive by the pagan Arabs is mentioned in the Quran and many beleive therefore it was a common practice - female children were viewed as a financial burden - but obviously not all of them engaged in such a practice

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
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