If you ask me who created God? I'll answer: a greater God. Then you might ask, who created this greater God? My answer will be an even greater God, and we'll keep going until we reach infinity. At the point we reach infinity, we reached God! Everything else was NOT God! That's my idea of God. He's INFINITE. He's not regional, temporal, or with limited powers. Everything about Him is infinite.
You're a polytheist then. Burn baby Burn
And once you finally understand and accept this you know you can't ask the question who created God because you can not reach infinity.
You winding me up? You create this meaningless paradigm, and you stop questions being asked because of its absurdity. Then because no-one ask questions, you think you have proved yourself right? Reminds me of the 'can an infinite god create something that he cannot lift' - its just a play with the word infinity
A strong evidence for a creator is that nothing is random.
i'd be happy to go with that.
But the fact is nothing is random.
This is a fact now is it? how about the numbers rolled on a dice or the fact that you are a muslim?
The evidence becomes even stronger in the case of meanigful or useful events. Especially when it is exceedingly rare for such an event to happen.
Some atheists, however, cite the Law of (Incredibly) Large Numbers to justify exceedingly rare events.
Let's take our lonely planet Earth as an example and think for a moment.
What are the chances that there exists a planet with a distance from a star like that between the earth and the sun, so that planet is neither a blazing inferno nor an ice cube? Answer: Chances are very slim... but given that there are many planets out there (now we're applying the Law of large numbers, although planets are much much fewer than stars, by the way) then it's not completely impossible to find a planet (other than Earth) with such a condition.
Now, what are the chances that a planet has a lot of iron in its core to create a strong magnetic field, strong enough to dispel solar wind? Again, very small chances, but again since there are plenty of planets out there, then it's not completely impossible (Law of Large numbers). Simliarly, what are the chances that a planet has a moon large enough to balance its spin ensuring a long enough day? Again, very small chances, but since there are plenty of planets out there, then it's not completely impossible (Law of Large numbers).
I can keep going forever... Now, what are the chances that there is a planet satsifying ALL these life-friendly (yet exceedingly rare) conditions all at the same time? Ans: Infinitely small.
You're right, its mostly down to the law of large numbers.
If you understand possibility theory then you will have a better idea of large numbers, its just difficult for you to comprehend the numbers we are talking about, so it sounds impossible to you. Once you understand that it took 13.2 billion years to create us, and there are billions of solar systems like our own, then things get easier to understand. A bit like cavemen when they first so fire. They attributed it to being a God. Now you have moved on and see see human creation as being automatically to the supernatural too.
It's like saying: I just so happened to have all the ingredients required to make a soup and after spending the required time on the stove, the soup just so happened to be ready.
Folks, we have a new Boeing 747 fallacy, its been renamed the Soup fallacy.
The bottomline is: either the universe has a mind of its own or there is a creator.
Read up on the boeing 747 fallacy, and try & get your head round it.
Another clear-cut evidence for either the existence of a creator God or the "awareness" of the universe is the NATURAL LAWS... these definitely were either written by a creator God or are part of an aware and intelligent universe.
Actually before you start reading up on 747 fallacy, look up evidence in the dictionary - you use it too nonchalantly for my liking. You would have Einstein turning in his grave.
Please, dear atheists, remember that before the first cell, there was NO natural selection (which requires living organisms). So, this means that the direction this process took to form the first DNA, can only be random, which is laughable, especially in light of the monumental importance of DNA for life.
I thought self-replicating proteins came before DNA but perhaps I am wrong.
2- Besides, synthesis of the first DNA is NOT the only requirement for life... there are too many highly improbable requirements and the probability of all these being satsified in one planet is infinitely small (looking at the big picture).
Take pen & paper to hand, allow for billions of universe over billions of years, and you will see the resulting probabaility will make it unlikely that abiogenesis would not have occurred in one place. In fact it would not surprise me if there is life elsewhere too. I think sagan worked out the probability of abiogeneisis occurring elsewhere and it turned out to be unlikely that it would not have started elsewhere too.
3- And what about the elegant natural laws? Now these, obviously, didn't go through any formation processes. They were either a part of an aware universe or they were written for the universe.
how about it just is. that takes the magic out of it I think. in any case whats so elegant about the theory of what goes up must come down, or e=mc squared?
It's like walking for miles and miles in a vast dry desert that has been dead without any rain for ages, and then you spot a magnificent tree laiden with fruits while being surrounded by death everywhere...
a magnificent bit of prose
but I fail to see what this has to do with our argument that Islam is false and why this is addressed to me? I have already told you twice that I am agnostic. A creator is possible but you are making several leaps of faith from this point onwards. That is where you and I disagree. For all we know there could be a non-interventionist creator. Or the creator could be one based on science, and not of miracles. I certainly believe that if there is a creator that made everything you described here, he would do a far better job that the quran which came as a huge disappointment when I first read the translation.
I didnt get a chance to read it a second time, I had already used it as toilet paper.
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