Allah did not know best after all!

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Allah did not know best after all!
OP - January 11, 2010, 10:33 PM

And Muhammad is no more than an apostle; the apostles have already passed away before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels, he will by no means do harm to Allah in the least and Allah will reward the grateful. (2:144)

what do you guys think? Allah did not know if Muhamed will be killed or would die naturally?

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Re: Allah did not know best after all!
Reply #1 - January 11, 2010, 10:35 PM

lol i remember reading this but i never reflected over it. Great post!

I wonder what the scholars say about this verse.
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Re: Allah did not know best after all!
Reply #2 - January 11, 2010, 10:37 PM

I think the apologists from Islamic-Awareness probably cooked up something. But many of their articles are so weak.

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
~Sir Richard Francis Burton

"I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
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Re: Allah did not know best after all!
Reply #3 - January 11, 2010, 11:12 PM

I don't think this would shake anybody's faith. They could easily say, "Allah didn't want to give it away (Elm Al-Ghayb)" or something like that. And considering we know that the book is a bunch of cooked up bullshit anyways, it wouldn't really matter.

Thought what puzzles me is why add "or killed". I thought by saying "dies" it implied death regardless of method. I mean you wouldn't even notice it if "or killed" was not included.

"In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan
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Re: Allah did not know best after all!
Reply #4 - January 12, 2010, 06:01 AM

Quote from: Infidel on January 11, 2010, 11:12 PM
I don't think this would shake anybody's faith. They could easily say, "Allah didn't want to give it away (Elm Al-Ghayb)" or something like that. And considering we know that the book is a bunch of cooked up bullshit anyways, it wouldn't really matter.

Thought what puzzles me is why add "or killed". I thought by saying "dies" it implied death regardless of method. I mean you wouldn't even notice it if "or killed" was not included.

Is not the Quran supposed to be a miracle? It didn't even know how Mo would die? That is to me is just a human mistake. Apologists can say what ever they wish.

It would be nice to hear what Abuyunis2 has to say!

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Re: Allah did not know best after all!
Reply #5 - January 12, 2010, 06:26 AM

Meh, I agree with Infidel here... my first thought would be to assume that god did not want give away mohammed's death, but the use of "or killed" is debatable. If anything its another sign of human syntax error.

Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
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Re: Allah did not know best after all!
Reply #6 - January 12, 2010, 06:48 AM

It could be that or killed means that if in a battle the muslims are overcome by stronger powers, or if Mohamed is assassinated?
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Re: Allah did not know best after all!
Reply #7 - January 12, 2010, 07:51 AM

Quote from: Infidel on January 11, 2010, 11:12 PM
I don't think this would shake anybody's faith. They could easily say, "Allah didn't want to give it away (Elm Al-Ghayb)" or something like that. And considering we know that the book is a bunch of cooked up bullshit anyways, it wouldn't really matter.

IMO, that is extremely silly! Isn't the quran supposed to be filled with Miracles? Did not the Quran predict certain things for Mohamed, like his victories in some battles and his defeats in others? Did not the Muslims say that the Quran said we will go to the moon? Did not the Quran mentioned things that happened in the future? Or that what they say, when it is convenient?

Quote from: Infidel on January 11, 2010, 11:12 PM
Thought what puzzles me is why add "or killed". I thought by saying "dies" it implied death regardless of method. I mean you wouldn't even notice it if "or killed" was not included.

Yep, it does not make any sense in language or in meaning! That looks like a flop to me. If it only said "if then he dies will you turn back upon your heels?" then that would be enough to serve any purpose! I guess when that verse was composed, the author (i.e. Mohamed) was under a threat of assassination or something. We all know that there were many failed attempts on his life.

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Re: Allah did not know best after all!
Reply #8 - January 28, 2010, 04:43 PM

3:144
Muhammad is but a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) have passed away before him. Will it be that, when he dieth or is slain, ye will turn back on your heels? He who turneth back on his heels doth no hurt to Allah, and Allah will reward the thankful.
Qur'an 3:144
Narrated 'Aisha

Abu Bakr came riding his horse from his dwelling place in As-Sunh. He got down from it, entered the Mosque and did not speak with anybody till he came to me and went direct to the Prophet, who was covered with a marked blanket. Abu Bakr uncovered his face. He knelt down and kissed him and then started weeping and said, "My father and my mother be sacrificed for you, O Allah's Prophet! Allah will not combine two deaths on you. You have died the death which was written for you."
Narrated Abu Salama from Ibn Abbas : Abu Bakr came out and 'Umar , was addressing the people, and Abu Bakr told him to sit down but 'Umar refused. Abu Bakr again told him to sit down but 'Umar again refused. Then Abu Bakr recited the Tashah-hud (i.e. none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and Muhammad is Allah's Apostle) and the people attended to Abu Bakr and left 'Umar. Abu Bakr said, "Amma ba'du, whoever amongst you worshipped Muhammad, then Muhammad is dead, but whoever worshipped Allah, Allah is alive and will never die. Allah said: 'Muhammad is no more than an Apostle and indeed (many) Apostles have passed away before him ..(up to the) grateful.' " (3.144) (The narrator added, "By Allah, it was as if the people never knew that Allah had revealed this verse before till Abu Bakr recited it and then whoever heard it, started reciting it ")
Sahih Bukhari 2:23:333, See also: Sahih Bukhari 5:59:733

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Revelational_Circumstances_of_the_Qur%27an:_Surah_3_(Al-i-Imran)#3:144
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