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Theme Changer

 Topic: from nothing to life

 (Read 4595 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • from nothing to life
     OP - January 17, 2010, 08:43 PM

    hi all

    this is a quite astonishing video i saw, very beautiful and awakening

    enjoy


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEpZFEIDHdc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-TuX2uywZU&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnSalCqZz6s&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPbD2sKfMvI
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVDoMF2m9VI&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1ZZ6n2DMOU&feature=related

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #1 - January 17, 2010, 09:33 PM

    looks good, will watch this week..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #2 - January 17, 2010, 09:58 PM


    The BBC really is one of the best things about the UK  Afro


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #3 - January 17, 2010, 10:04 PM

    not just the BBC, documentaries as a whole

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #4 - January 17, 2010, 10:05 PM


    Yeah that's right. Some of the BBC sucks. But the documentaries are fantastic.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #5 - January 17, 2010, 10:15 PM

    I meant all documentaries generally from the UK, not just the BBC

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #6 - January 17, 2010, 10:17 PM

    Saw the first one very nice. Will watch rest.

    Jim Al-Khalili, he seems to be quite famous in the science community. What do you know about him? I think I might buy this book by him:

    Quantum: A Guide for the Perplexed

    From what I read about him, he writes a certain amount about the contributions of Islamic science.

    - The House of Wisdom and the Legacy of Arabic Science (to be published by Penguin Press in the summer of 2010 ).
    - His articles at the Guardian

    Which is a bit annoying, as if there is a field of Islamic physics or something. Nobody talks about Hindu Science. I mean who cares. And he also propagates that Arabs used to be great scientists (I agree with the past-tense). Islamic Science, came from conquered territories. I'm not even sure the majority of those Muslim scholars were even arabs!

    This why people should stick to their own fields, I would love to know his personal opinion on Islam, God, and religion. I think he is trying to defend Islam, and I'm not sure why? The whole argument about Islamic Science has been made before and it is has not really persuaded the non-muslims that have looked into Islam's history, or that know about the stagnation of scientific research and discoveries in the larger part of the modern muslim world.
  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #7 - January 17, 2010, 10:20 PM

    This why people should stick to their own fields, I would love to know his personal opinion on Islam, God, and religion. I think he is trying to defend Islam, and I'm not sure why?

    He has too, he would not be allowed to get away with criticising Islamic culture without defending Islam in parallel

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #8 - January 17, 2010, 10:24 PM

    He has too, he would not be allowed to get away with criticising Islamic culture without defending Islam in parallel


    Really? What has he said?
  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #9 - January 17, 2010, 10:28 PM

    The BBC really is one of the best things about the UK  Afro




    Honestly it is. It's really one the best TV channels on fucking earth. News, docs, everything.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #10 - January 17, 2010, 10:32 PM

    I meant all documentaries generally from the UK, not just the BBC


    Oh yeah Channel 4 do some great documentaries too. But the BBC is overall, a treasure of Great Britain.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #11 - January 17, 2010, 10:32 PM

    Quote
    Which is a bit annoying, as if there is a field of Islamic physics or something. Nobody talks about Hindu Science. I mean who cares. And he also propagates that Arabs used to be great scientists (I agree with the past-tense). Islamic Science, came from conquered territories. I'm not even sure the majority of those Muslim scholars were even arabs!


    it's a common discussion. The problem is like this: not all the scientists/natural philosophers were muslim, therefore you cannot call it "Islamic Science" (besides the fact that "islamic science" is also used to denote studying islam (as a believer; the science of hadith, the science of tafsir, the science of the qur'an etc.)). not all the scientists/natural philosophers were arabs, therefore you cannot call it "Arab Science". What should then be the category? Middle Age Middle Eastern Science? No because many of them lived outside the Middle East and the name is stupid. "Arab Science" though have another good argument. Most of them wrote in Arabic since this was the 'lingua franca' of a vast geographical space, but it was no all.

    Quote
    This why people should stick to their own fields, I would love to know his personal opinion on Islam, God, and religion. I think he is trying to defend Islam, and I'm not sure why?


    he's an atheist (or agnostic). One of the reason he's doing this work on scientific history of the Arabs is that he doesn't think that modern people appreciate the role Arab and muslim scientist played in the development of science. There's a video-interview about his programs on "Arab/Islamic Science" on the internet where he explains this further. Ie. his work is partly done in the spirit of what he sees as an increasing ignorance towards Arabs and Arabic history and is possibly turned against xenophobia against Arabs and islamophobia.
  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #12 - January 17, 2010, 10:38 PM

    Saw the first one very nice. Will watch rest.

    Jim Al-Khalili, he seems to be quite famous in the science community. What do you know about him? I think I might buy this book by him:

    Quantum: A Guide for the Perplexed

    From what I read about him, he writes a certain amount about the contributions of Islamic science.

    - The House of Wisdom and the Legacy of Arabic Science (to be published by Penguin Press in the summer of 2010 ).
    - His articles at the Guardian

    Which is a bit annoying, as if there is a field of Islamic physics or something. Nobody talks about Hindu Science. I mean who cares. And he also propagates that Arabs used to be great scientists (I agree with the past-tense). Islamic Science, came from conquered territories. I'm not even sure the majority of those Muslim scholars were even arabs!

    This why people should stick to their own fields, I would love to know his personal opinion on Islam, God, and religion. I think he is trying to defend Islam, and I'm not sure why? The whole argument about Islamic Science has been made before and it is has not really persuaded the non-muslims that have looked into Islam's history, or that know about the stagnation of scientific research and discoveries in the larger part of the modern muslim world.


    The BBC does have a tendency to do hagiography when it comes to Islam. At the same time, some really good programmes regarding Islamism have been done by the BBC, for example, their evisceration of the Muslim Council of Britain, who are an Islamist wolf in sheeps clothing, by the Panorama news show was superb.

    But I get the feeling the BBC tend to think it is their duty to project white washing of certain elements of Islam, and Islamic history, as a kind of politically correct gesture. There is room for fair, cogent and rational scepticism and debunking of many of the Dawah-like assertions about Islamic history peddled in that documentary series presented by Rageh Omaar, for example.  


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #13 - January 17, 2010, 10:42 PM

    lol Yeah I remember Rageh Omaar's little doc. Romanticization at it's most extreme. It's sad to see that the only docs on Islam are either whitewashing and pro-islamic (ie Empire of Faith) or bigoted and hateful (ie Fitnah)

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #14 - January 17, 2010, 10:42 PM

    actually if you go back to the history the most notable phases of scientific enlightenment had nothing to do even with the most lose description of traditional islam..

    omayya state, abbasi state, and Andalusia weren't strictly Islamic when glowing with scientific power, they were even more lose than the modern day societies of arab and Muslim countries

    you can find speech freedom, sexual activities, dressing, thought, and politics that would in any of these days Islam be stoned as blasphemous

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #15 - January 17, 2010, 10:44 PM

    actually if you go back to the history the most notable phases of scientific overstatements had nothing to do even with the most lose description of traditional islam..

    omayya state, abbasi state, and Andalusia weren't strictly Islamic when glowing with scientific power, they were even more lose than the modern day societies of arab and Muslim countries

    you can find speech freedom, sexual activities, dressing, thought, and politics that would in any of these days Islam be stoned as blasphemous


    Exactly!

    This is what I hate about both Muslims and Islamophobes when they talk about Muslim history. It's an either/or model where one side tries to credit to Islam all the great achievments of secular Muslim thinkers and scientists while the other side tried to deny the contributions and advances of classical Muslim civilization totally. Reality is that most of the Muslim world is more orthodox and rigid now than it was 1000 years ago.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #16 - January 17, 2010, 10:49 PM

    One of the reason he's doing this work on scientific history of the Arabs is that he doesn't think that modern people appreciate the role Arab and muslim scientist played in the development of science. There's a video-interview about his programs on "Arab/Islamic Science" on the internet where he explains this further. Ie. his work is partly done in the spirit of what he sees as an increasing ignorance towards Arabs and Arabic history and is possibly turned against xenophobia against Arabs and islamophobia.


    You see, I think what is needed is for Muslims to understand how Arab contributions to science were not signs of the superiority of Islamic civilisation, but just the natural manifestations of the osmosis and transmission of knowledge across cultures and territories over time. This is the way of history. Too many Muslims buy into the 'golden age of Islam' and oh-no-look-and-weep-at-our-lost-glory formula.

    Plus, when people see and read hagiography like this which has a finger-wagging agenda, they see through it quite easily. There is nothing special about the 'Islamic' contribution to science when seen in the context of how societies bleed into one another, and how at different times, various elements combine to make particular centres of the world the hub of discovery and knowledge. I think its important for Muslims to understand this, because it cuts to the heart of the need for the Islamic world to accept pluralism and view themselves as just one part of humanity, and not as a special separate innately unique fount of all that is great that has been laid low by conniving dastardly kuffars - a common self-perception throughout the Islamic world. On the whole, most parts of the (kuffar) world understand this, despite the finger wagging about Islamophobia that constantly takes place, people in the West understand this especially well, and it is part of the reason why science and arts flourish in Europe and America, for example.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #17 - January 17, 2010, 10:53 PM

    Reality is that most of the Muslim world is more orthodox and rigid now than it was 1000 years ago.

    And what was the cause?

    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #18 - January 17, 2010, 10:57 PM

    for crying out loud they used to have openly living gay men and women who have a great deal of influence in the public life...now that seems to me more like Europe than modern Islamic world

    And what was the cause?

     Muslim schoolers and reformers are always pulling us back in time

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #19 - January 17, 2010, 11:19 PM

    for crying out loud they used to have openly living gay men and women who have a great deal of influence in the public life...now that seems to me more like Europe than modern Islamic world
     Muslim schoolers and reformers are always pulling us back in time


    I heard that Abu Hamid Al-Ghazali played a major role in the decline of free thought in the Muslim world. To what extent is this true?

    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #20 - January 17, 2010, 11:30 PM

    I heard that Abu Hamid Al-Ghazali played a major role in the decline of free thought in the Muslim world. To what extent is this true?

    if i had a hell...he would be in it
    he fought against Ibn Rushd or Averroes as he is called in Latin, Ibn Rished was a great author of that era and his writings led to secular philosophy in Europe, the separation of state and religion, and democracy though this can be argued

    anyhow he made huge contribution for the fundamental movement that led to the fall of the secular Andalusia... 
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #21 - January 17, 2010, 11:32 PM

    Didn't Ghazali right a major book that basically condemned Philosophy and Sciences as heretical?

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #22 - January 17, 2010, 11:33 PM

    Yeah, this is the one I was talking about:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Incoherence_of_the_Philosophers

    Idiot.

    Ghazali is in many ways the founder of modern Sunni Islam. The Islam of Azhar, of Qardhawi.. its the same as Ghazali.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #23 - January 17, 2010, 11:39 PM

    not really a founder of modern islam...its more like return of real islam
    science is a very dangerous issue to religion, and Ibn Rhushd while being a muslim was trying to get science, logic, and philosophy as a source of knowledge, which is an always no no practice in strict Islamic context

    about the book, their was a series of books between the two of them Ghazali and Ibn Rushd, and the one you mentioned in your post is only one of them

  • Re: from nothing to life
     Reply #24 - January 17, 2010, 11:44 PM

    did i mention that ghazali led a campaign that banned Ibn Rushed and his publications and led also to the destruction of  a great deal of books and publications...

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