@ Baal
Ok, let's see how I'm being dishonest.
I didn't say it was the only reason, dear... re-read my post...
The only reason you mention for you 'running' back to the koran, is that prophets are well spoken of in the koran.
You mention something about the OT being full of genocide stories. You expect me to believe you fell for this Tu Coque? That One book is so full of crap, so the other book must be True? No one is that Stupid. So out of respect to you, I do not think your story holds.
demi-godhood? OK, let's see how these verses establish Muhammed as a demigod:
Muhammed sinned:
<verses>
He was a human like us... but he was also a messenger of God.
<verses>
The verses mean very little when put in context with the koran. We are asked to obey Mohammed more often than we are asked to obey Allah in the koran.
You bend over Five times a day and proclaim Muhammed's name. While facing a Black Stone. You can keep crying to high heaven that you do not worship the stone or Muhammed, and you do cry to high heaven, but no one who actually sees your actions, believe you.
You worship Muhammed just like you worship the koran.
In this verse, the prophet was order to say he's nothing different from other prophets and he doesn't know what will happen to him.
<verses>
The verses are clear and make sense but they are wrong and stupid.
Because no other message from any other prophet will be accepted save the True Message from the True prophet. So why you bother with the verses. Do we need to go over what happens to the people of the book in the koran?
Did you meet the married bachelor? Did you fly the train to Spain? both my statements are wrong and Stupid. The sentence is grammatically correct. You understand each word I say. But the meaning is wrong and stupid. There is no married bachelor and trains do not fly to Spain.
In this verse the prophet is ordered to say he's helpless against fate.
<verse>
You are ordered to obey him. Stop asking him for stupid things like curing the blind or raising people from the dead. Just obey him. And you will bend over, and say his name while you are obeying him.
In the following three verses, Muhammed was threatened by God:
17:75
In that case We would certainly have made you to taste a double (punishment) in this life and a double (punishment) after death, then you would not have found any helper against Us
17:86
And if We please, We should certainly take away that which We have revealed to you, then you would not find for it any protector against Us.
69:44-47
And if he had fabricated against Us some of the sayings, We would certainly have seized him by the right hand, And then severed his life-artery, Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath).
Muhammed trying to prove to his peers that he did not invent the koran. Using the koran. To prove his authenticity. So you can obey him harder. Because you do not like to believe circular logic exists. While bending over. Which you do.
And btw, Mohamed's peers, did not believe him. His own grand-father, told him to FO before he died, not a muslim, blissfully, One of the last real Arabs.
And here God is reproaching the prophet for the way he treated a poor blind man:
80:1-10
He frowned and turned away. Because the blind man came unto him. ..
Turning away from a blind man. Nothing even a fraction of what the prophet-butchers of the Old Testament did. This is the
Sin of Muhammed? Turning away from a blind man? Because Muhammad did not hurt a fly? so turning away from a blind man is such a
Sin?
This reminds me of the Bhuddist stories trying to pretend their monk is so holy and pure, he cried when he stepped on a bug. The idea is that this monk must have been really pure and so empty of sin that stepping on a bug invokes such a strong reaction.
Same thing, Muhammed is so empty of sin that looking away from a blind man, caused god himself, to write, since Thousands of years before creation, on the preserved tablet, a verse to reproach Muhammad.
I could look for more verses but I guess I have amply shown YOUR lack of honesty...
My claim is that Muhammad is worshipped in islam, in the koran, as well as in the hadith, as well as in the islamic culture. My claim still stands. All the verses you put forward only called for his worship even harder. I also see you completely skirted around mentioning the dozens of verses where muhammad is to be obeyed, insan kamil, etc..
In case, you were a Shia or a Sufi or one of those Muhammed worshippers, this doesn't mean that Islam makes Muhammed demi-God when the Quran literally called him a slave of God,
A little lesson about how demi-godhood works:
In every story which contains an avatar or a human representation of a god, the avatar is either the slave of that god or a family member. Either way, the demi-god is a living representation of the will of that god. Slave of that God's will. And since such a god does not exist and/or manifest, then only the demi-god is left to dictate what is the wish of the 'missing' god.
numerous many times, and if you actually read the Quran it's mainly a book about God (as master) and man (as slave).. why else we see verse after verse about the relationship between man and God, prayers, etc.
As Orwel said, we are all equals, but some are just more equal than others.
The issue with islam is, every 2-cent nitwit who dons a cloak, ends up hiding behind the holiness of Muhammad. Somehow, he is no longer just a slave anymore. And If you criticize the nitwit, then somehow you are accused of criticizing Muhammed as well. The problem is, currently there exists too many nitwits hiding behind Muhammad's holiness and as such that holiness has to be brought down few notches and the nitwits exposed.
However your argument that Muhammad is not worshiped in islam is insane.
You even ask a GOD to perform an action on the HUMAN, every time you mention the human name. GOD actioning on a human. GOD serving a human.
The ancients Israelites blamed their misfortunes on their prophets and God. I can literally DROWN you with evidence of such behavior from the "HOLY" Bible... Are you interested? Hmm?
You expect me to believe that you use the crap from One book to validate another to yourself. I do not think we are talking to each other on the same level here.
Well, the ancient Israelites *deified* themselves, no need to worship their prophets, again do you want evidence from the Bible?
Yes, I do believe you. Can you believe people actually calling themselves the 'chosen people'? and claiming only they will have eternal life? Can you believe such crazy people? wow. Crazy yes, but you can not call them Stupid right? After all it seems to be working for them. We are actually the stupid ones for not calling their bluff.
Primarily, the Christians are stuck accepting the superiority of the 'chosen people' because denying such a story will deny Christianity. Just like the Muslims are stuck having to accept the old stories which contradicts Islam and the Koran. Because denying the old books' existence will deny Islam.
And So what if we ask God to send him blessings in our prayers? We are praying FOR him.
How about you show your god the proper respect and stop calling his name in deference to a human. You want to know how stupid you sound? Here goes. It is called Recursive Logic:
Allah (Gal Galaloh)
Muhammad (Salla Allah Allay hi Wa Sallam)
How come, in the Second sentence, you say the word 'Alla' without saying (Gal Galaloh)? How come you are showing proper respect to the name of 'Mohammed' yet, 'Allah' is freely used in deference to the respect for Mohammed?
Here is another Stupid sentence, another instance of Allah used in deference to another human, wearing the cloak of Muhammad:
Abu Bakr (Radia Allah Anhu)
Islam is in the business of worshiping the humans that are ruling you. Muhammad is holy, you are trained since you were a kid to bend over for him. And once your subservience is established and your willpower broken, the rulers will take Muhammed's position as far as you are concerned.
And who told you the Quran didn't say prophets sinned? Want verses? Hmmm? Or are you finally gonna stop being dishonest? Ok, let's see some verses:
Abraham sinned
<bla bla bla>
Wait a Second here. Wtf. You are the One who stated you do not like how the prophets are depicted in the OT. Implying you like how they are treated in the Koran. Implying you also do not think their sins were too much of a problem.
And reading your post again, I see that this is the only reason you posted for running back to the koran. You mention comparing the bible to the koran, after talking to a Jehova's Maniacs couple, and then running back to the koran once you realized the prophets are well spoken of in the Koran.
That was your conclusion not mine.
Oh, please what does power have to do with anything? Besides, by your logic, the false accusation you lay against Islam that Muhammed is a God/prophet worked for at least 1000 years for Muslisms. Whereas the Jews suffered a lot for more than 2000 years (the latest of such suffering is the holocaust). Besides, it's the prophet/God worshipping Christians who are putting Muslims in their place.. I'm beginning to think that your theory is completely upsidedown... apparently, God/prophet is the way to go... except, this is not Islam.
This is not a discussion about what works and what does not work. Christ became a demi-god and then the emperor and then the popes went hiding under that same umbrella of divinity.
Again, your dishonesty (or is it dyslexia?) is stunning. I didn't say it was only the slandering of the prophets, I clearly mentioned things like "devoting" whole cities to the LORD, Capiche? Go re-read my post or stop twisting what I said. Try to be more honest next time. Oh, I amost forgot... apparently, you want me to show verses from the Bible too, about Israelites "devoting" cities to God?
Good for them? or is it, God for them.
Salam Debunker.
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