First off, I didn't say they'd go to paradise.
Well if they are not going to hell then they will be going to paradise.
The Heights is only a temporary location where the people will meet before being judged to go to heaven or hell.
Read the tafsir:
(And between them will be a screen) "It is the wall, it is Al-A`raf.'' Mujahid said, "Al-A`raf is a barrier between Paradise and the Fire, a wall that has a gate.'' Ibn Jarir said, "Al-A`raf is plural for `Urf, where every elevated piece of land is known as `Urf to the Arabs.'' As-Suddi said, "Al-A`raf is so named because its residents recognize (Ya`rifun) the people. Al-A`raf's residents are those whose good and bad deeds are equal, as Hudhayfah, Ibn `Abbas, Ibn Mas`ud and several of the Salaf and later generations said.'' Ibn Jarir recorded that Hudhayfah was asked about the people of Al-A`raf and he said, "A people whose good and bad deeds are equal. Their evil deeds prevented them from qualifying to enter Paradise, and their good deeds qualified them to avoid the Fire. Therefore, they are stopped there on the wall until Allah judges them.'' Ma`mar said that Al-Hasan recited this Ayah,
(and at that time they will not yet have entered it (Paradise), but they will hope to enter (it).) Then he said, "By Allah! Allah did not put this hope in their hearts, except for an honor that He intends to bestow on them.'' Qatadah said; "Those who hope are those among you whom Allah informed of their places.'' Allah said next,
(And when their eyes will be turned towards the dwellers of the Fire, they will say: "Our Lord! Place us not with the people who are wrongdoers.'') Ad-Dahhak reported that Ibn `Abbas said, "When the people of Al-A`raf look at the people of the Fire and recognize them, they will supplicate, `O Lord! Do not place us with the people who are wrongdoers.'''
(48. And the men on Al-A`raf will call unto the men whom they would recognize by their marks, saying: "Of what benefit to you was your gathering, and your arrogance'') (49. "Are they those, of whom you swore that Allah would never show them mercy (Behold! It has been said to them): `Enter Paradise, no fear shall be on you, nor shall you grieve.''') Allah states that the people of Al-A`raf will admonish some of the chiefs of the idolators whom they recognize by their marks in the Fire,
Second, if someone steals or sins against others, then of course those are punished regardless of being Muslims or not.
You going to punished once you are not a Muslim regardless of whether you sinned or not. That is the problem. The disbelievers are destined for hell.
Fourth: Please read the first post. I clearly did mention the Heights (a place between Hell and Paradise). The men of Heights even call on the men of Hell and specify their sin: Pride, which automatically implies that the men of the Heights did not committ this sin themselves. (Apparently you have ignored the whole first post.)
See above
Fifth: We don't know how the men of the heights would be judged... or if they're even going to be judged... or if the Heights are their final abode...
I repeat above from Ibn Kathir?s "Therefore, they are stopped there on the wall until Allah judges them. (and at that time they will not yet have entered it (Paradise), but they will hope to enter (it).) "
The Heights is just temporary to judge those Muslims who had some bad deeds and need Allah to judge whether their good or bad outweighs the other.
We just know that only pride-based disobedience guarantees eternal damnation.
You can't seriously believe that? All throughout the Qur'an in plain black and white the disbelievers are condemned to hell. Its got nothing to do with pride. People do not reject a God who can show clear evidence of itself because they feel they are too great to worship that God. Pride has absolutely nothing to do with rejecting God. Its all down to rational, logical thinking.
Really? so that's the *common ground* between the Jews, Christians and Muslims? Following Muhammed? Try harder dear.
I never said Muhammad was common ground between the 3. You said Jews were not going to hell because of 3:64. That verse says you must accept Allah. Jews do not accept Allah or his messenger.
First of all, the Surah is Meccan and the speech was directed at the Meccans... they got the message and God in numerous many verses accuses them of rejecting it out of pride, like He accused the Pharoah disobeying out of pride, just like the case of all other people who rejected the message of their prophets out of pride. Try something else... or you know what? Out of need for time, I'll have to stick with Hassan only.
The Qur'an is supposed to be clear, descended from a tablet in Heaven. A verse that says "And whosoever disobeys God and His Messenger, then surely, for him is the fire of Hell" with not qualification that it applies on to the Meccans is pointless nonsense. There is nothing there says its directed only to prideful Meccans. If it was then why is it not just a hadith. Why put it in a book directed to all mankind for all times.
Its simply a pathetic excuse for nonsense you cannot stomach to believe. And not prepared to debate hence your plea to stick with Hassan only
Q98:06 Those who disbelieve, among the Christians, Jews and Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for good). They are the worst of creatures.
Disbelief here means disbelief of the Muhammad's revelations. Hence Jews will be going to Hell.
Oh please, read the verse before it! You know what? read for the beginning of the Surah.
The verse before it is:
98:05 And they were not enjoined anything except that they should serve Allah, being sincere to Him in obedience, upright, and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, and that is the right religion.
That does not make an iota of difference. It says Islam is the right religion and Allah must be served, then the next verse say the Christians, Jews and Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire. You know why because they don't serve Allah. It has nothing to do with their pride, or their deeds. Its to do with the fact that they do not serve Allah.
Topic: Comments on Hassan V debunker