Hi Debunker,
1- Do you think Muhammed did NOT speak his own language perfectly? (By perfectly, I mean he spoke his own language spontaneously without making any grammatical errors)
I have no reason do doubt he spoke Arabic very well, but no-one's perfect. Even the best authors need to have their manuscripts proof-read, (even then mistakes slip through.)
2- If the answer to #1 is yes, then do you think that his followers also did NOT speak their own language perfectly as to realize the grammatical errors in Muhammed's Quran?
Again I have no reason to doubt they spoke Arabic well and could spot errors, but again I also find it perfectly plausible that minor errors were not noticed - or not considered important. I remember studying the famous Qasida's of the pre-Islamic Arabs for example and they sometimes contained strange phrases and anomalies that one might consider to be mistakes. Yet they were still pinned to the Ka'ba and people prostrated when they were uttered.
I should also point out that the particular anomaly that I highlighted would be extremely hard to regard as a local or dialectical difference due to it's nature - and I know of no scholar who has. The scholars who picked up on these things struggled to explain them. I quoted Zamkhshari - who was the greatest scholar of the Qur'an when it came to grammar - and he came up with something that makes little sense and appears very arbitrary.
If we are to assume that God did indeed decide to include odd variations in dialects that made no sense and no-one seems to be aware of or for far-fetched purpose that seem totally irrational and arbitrary, one must ask, why? Since their only effect seems to be to confuse people and give the Qur'anic scholars a hard time explaining them.
- If the answer to #2 is yes, then how would anyone claim that there are grammatical errors in the Quran that just so happened to escape the attention of native speakers at the time?
See above.
4- If the answer to #2 is no, then how could they, the followers, not recognize the obvious falsehood of his claims to prophethood? If they were aware of such errors then it must have sounded to them like: 1+1=32.
See above.
5- When did Arab grammarians appear (when was Arabic grammar standardized?).
After the Qur'an was revealed. Arguably the most definitive book on grammar was compiled by Sibawayh towards the end of the 8th century.
- Is it possible, at all, that some grammatical uses of the language was local or temporal (and later became archaic)?
Yes, that was indeed the case.
Finally, I don't claim I'm an expert on Arabic grammar, but I do know that using different grammatical formations can convey (subtle) different meanings (except perhaps such uses were archaic -- temporal/local -- by the time the grammar was standarized.)
Quite true.
Re: all of the above. You do realise that my video was NOT claiming that there definitely are grammatical errors? I have been asked this question many times - ever since I used to post on FFI and I always insist that one simply cannot prove such a thing. My point is that one cannot prove the contrary either! The claim by Muslims that the Qur'an is perfect and that this proves it comes from God is not a claim that can be tested objectively. It is not a matter of ascertaining the facts and proving them beyond reasonable doubt. It is a matter of faith and not indisputable evidence.
Was that not clear in my video?
Second, regarding verse 16:106, I don't know why do you read it without reading 16:105, verse 106 is a continuation to 105.
إِنَّمَا يَفْتَرِي الْكَذِبَ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِآيَاتِ اللّهِ وَأُوْلـئِكَ هُمُ الْكَاذِبُونَ ?105? مَن كَفَرَ بِاللّهِ مِن بَعْدِ إيمَانِهِ إِلاَّ مَنْ أُكْرِهَ وَقَلْبُهُ مُطْمَئِنٌّ بِالإِيمَانِ وَلَـكِن مَّن شَرَحَ بِالْكُفْرِ صَدْرًا فَعَلَيْهِمْ غَضَبٌ مِّنَ اللّهِ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ ?106? This can be translated as:
[105] Those who forge falsehood are the ones who don't believe in God's signs, those are the liars [106] who disbelieved in God after belief, except he who is forced (to lie) while his heart is content with faith, but those who are content with disbelief, the wrath of God is upon them and theirs is a great punishment.This is how I always read these verses.. anyway, I checked Tafsir, and surprisingly it does include your understanding of the verse as well as mine.
http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=KORTOBY&nType=1&nSora=16&nAya=106 regards.
I'm well aware that it is important to see verses in their context. The verse still looks very badly structured to me.
Topic: A reply to DisscussIslam's false Claims