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 Topic: My reply to skynightblaze

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  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #120 - February 06, 2010, 02:15 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 06, 2010, 02:04 PM
    Guess that's a good point in some way. But we aren't really talking about a supernatural experience, or an alien encounter, we are talking about life long witnessing of a lack of taqqiya the way you are describing it.  By many ex muslims ranging across different cultural backgrounds, all saying the same thing in regards to a religion and way of life they all once followed.  There is a bit of a difference.


    As I said, I was just pointing out that experiences do not refute any argument. All the ex-Muslims here did quit Islam when they could see/were shown that Islam/quran is....., did they not? What would you say about those who deny even after knowing?

    Was "Islam promotes terrorism" an issue in this thread? If it was, I wonder why it is being ignored completely. If it was not, my bad.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #121 - February 06, 2010, 02:18 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 06, 2010, 02:08 PM
    Check out my answer to Sky...

    PS. Is it fair to say that by repeatedly avoiding explaining your relationship to Christianity, you are practicing *your* definition of Taqiyya?


    LOL. I would say that my relationship with Christianity is irrelevant to the discussion. Even if I am practicing taqiyya, how does that refute SNB's claim?
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #122 - February 06, 2010, 02:19 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 06, 2010, 02:12 PM
    Was Ali Sina practising Taqqiya when he faked being a rabid hardline muslim to write an article about rabid hardline muslims in order to win people over to his side?

    I mean a lie in the sake of your cause is esentially what you are claiming (not you debunker) is the essence of taqqiya, that would make every politican a taqq'tician.  Tongue


    Wait! Did Ali Sina actually stoop to this level? Well, I thought he only demanded that Muslims shall be ruled with an iron fist, even in their own lands, by the West if they won't apostate... His message is: Apostate or die! Very convenient indeed, since Muslims, naturally, won't apostate in masses, then they must die! (or ruled with an iron fist, exactly the goal sought after by the pigs (neocons) he serves). But I didn't expect he'd actually fake being a rabid hard line Muslim...
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #123 - February 06, 2010, 02:21 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on February 06, 2010, 02:12 PM
    @charlesmartel

    Nomen est omen?

    Are you his virtual reincarnation?
     


    No Kenan; I am insignificant compared to him even virtually. There are others - like Ali Sina, Robert Spencer and many others - who can claim the mantle.

    If your comment was meant as a compliment, thanks a lot.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #124 - February 06, 2010, 02:24 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on February 06, 2010, 02:18 PM
    LOL. I would say that my relationship with Christianity is irrelevant to the discussion. Even if I am practicing taqiyya, how does that refute SNB's claim?


    I have already answered sky's.... now, I'm discussing your application of your definition of Taqqiyya.. you're an ex-Christian... Iblis came to you and he could sniff out something Christian about you, yet you weren't completely honest with him... there' no need for this Taqiyya Charles... there's quite a few ex-Christians here and they're quite welcome too... (one of them is even a moderator). But unlike you, those ex-Christians won't call *Muslims* Nazis (or even worse than Nazis) like you did in FFI. (there's a huge difference between saying 'Islam = Nazism' and 'Muslims = Nazis')
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #125 - February 06, 2010, 02:24 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on February 06, 2010, 02:15 PM
    As I said, I was just pointing out that experiences do not refute any argument.


    Am I right to say that a lot of mental disorders have been learnt about through observation over a very long period of time and experience?  And that treatments (not medicinal ones) have come about due to these observations and these experiences rather than due to anything else?   So observation and experience are useful at times right? 

    What makes these observations and experiences any less valid than those they use to treat mental patients? 



    Quote

     All the ex-Muslims here did quit Islam when they could see/were shown that Islam/quran is....., did they not? What would you say about those who deny even after knowing?




    I would say that the reaction of muslims who still continue to defend islam even after being shown the truth is not down to taqqiya, not for most of them though, with some, yeah of course.  You get manipulative liars in all shapes and sizes.  For the rest though, they do not want to believe, they block you out by seeing you as the liar or they search for a scholar who has found a twisted way to refute the arguement you are using, so that they have something to help them ignore you.

    It's not malicious lying to you, it's sad and pitiful lying to themselves.

    Quote

    Was "Islam promotes terrorism" an issue in this thread? If it was, I wonder why it is being ignored completely. If it was not, my bad.


    I'm not sure, I haven't read the whole thread.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #126 - February 06, 2010, 02:25 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 06, 2010, 02:19 PM
    Wait! Did Ali Sina actually stoop to this level? Well, I thought he only demanded that Muslims shall be ruled with an iron fist, even in their own lands, by the West if they won't apostate... His message is: Apostate or die! Very convenient indeed, since Muslims, naturally, won't apostate in masses, then they must die! (or ruled with an iron fist, exactly the goal sought after by the pigs (neocons) he serves). But I didn't expect he'd actually fake being a rabid hard line Muslim...


    May be he was just trying to switch the roles of Muslims and non-Muslims. Did his demand shock you? Quran shocks us too in the similar way.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #127 - February 06, 2010, 02:27 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 06, 2010, 02:19 PM
    Wait! Did Ali Sina actually stoop to this level? Well, I thought he only demanded that Muslims shall be ruled with an iron fist, even in their own lands, by the West if they won't apostate... His message is: Apostate or die! Very convenient indeed, since Muslims, naturally, won't apostate in masses, then they must die! (or ruled with an iron fist, exactly the goal sought after by the pigs (neocons) he serves). But I didn't expect he'd actually fake being a rabid hard line Muslim...


    Yeah he did.  He tricked some muslims who were quite vile in their views, that he was one of them so he could quote them when they became comfortable enough to be truthful with those nastier views of theirs.

    He also faked being a heterosexual woman, on a lesbian forum, who was interested in trying out a woman, in order to prove that homosexuality was a choice rather than something you are born with.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #128 - February 06, 2010, 02:27 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 06, 2010, 01:52 PM
    @ sky

    whether Muslims actually practice *your* definition of Taqiyya or NOT is IRRELEVANT... your definition of Taqiyya is NOT the one defined in the Quran...

    EDIT:

    there's only one verse in the Quran allowing Muslims to become subservients (Wali) of non-Muslims out of fear of persecution:

    [3:28] Let not the believers take for friends be subservient (Wali) to unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from God: except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them. But God cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to God.

    Transliteration:
    La yattakhithi almu/minoona alkafireena awliyaa min dooni almu/mineena waman yafAAal thalika falaysa mina Allahi fee shay-in illa an tattaqoo minhum tuqatan wayuhaththirukumu Allahu nafsahu wa-ila Allahi almaseeru


    Note: Wali means:

    1- Guardian OR
    2- someone you're obliged to serve; someone you're subserviant to.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=8380.msg208012#msg208012



    IT doesnt matter friend. What it would do at the max is eliminate the tag of "Taqiyya". Now I just cannot use the word Taqiyya at the max but does it change the fact that most of the muslims lie to defend their religion? Ofcourse not! The act is disgraceful and shameful. The tag doesnt really matter. Its just like not calling Muhhamad a paedophile but what about the act? At the max you can eliminate the tag but what about the act?
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #129 - February 06, 2010, 02:29 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 06, 2010, 02:08 PM
    Check out my answer to Sky...

    PS. Is it fair to say that by repeatedly avoiding explaining your relationship to Christianity, you are practicing *your* definition of Taqiyya?


    Charles was never a christian and will never be a  christian. You can take it in writing from me provided you trust me. He is an atheist.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #130 - February 06, 2010, 02:29 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on February 06, 2010, 02:21 PM
    No Kenan; I am insignificant compared to him even virtually. There are others - like Ali Sina, Robert Spencer and many others - who can claim the mantle.

    If your comment was meant as a compliment, thanks a lot.

    Well, you guys are taking yourselves a bit too seriously for my taste.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #131 - February 06, 2010, 02:29 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 06, 2010, 02:24 PM
    I have already answered sky's.... now, I'm discussing your application of your definition of Taqqiyya.. you're an ex-Christian... Iblis came to you and he could sniff out something Christian about you, yet you weren't completely honest with him... there' no need for this Taqiyya Charles... there's quite a few ex-Christians here and they're quite welcome too... (one of them is even a moderator).


    Cheesy You have the potential of a good chess player.

    But no, Iblis first thought I was an ex Muslim. Do you want to ask if practice taqiyya sometimes? I was asked the same question earlier and I have already answered.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #132 - February 06, 2010, 02:30 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on February 06, 2010, 02:25 PM
    May be he was just trying to switch the roles of Muslims and non-Muslims. Did his demand shock you? Quran shocks us too in the similar way.


    I don't care how you view Quran... FUCK ANY FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT WHO SAYS MUSLIMS SHALL BE PERSECUTED... I PISS ON EVERY PIECE OF TRASH WHO SAYS THIS!
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #133 - February 06, 2010, 02:35 PM
    Quote from: skynightblaze on February 06, 2010, 02:27 PM
    IT doesnt matter friend. What it would do at the max is eliminate the tag of "Taqiyya". Now I just cannot use the word Taqiyya at the max but does it change the fact that most of the muslims lie to defend their religion? Ofcourse not! The act is disgraceful and shameful. The tag doesnt really matter. Its just like not calling Muhhamad a paedophile but what about the act? At the max you can eliminate the tag but what about the act?


    Let me explain with an example: let's say Pakistani Muslims kill their wives for paying them low dowries... you cannot blame this on Islam.. I hope you can understand the distinction between what Muslims do and what is actually prescribed in the Quran. Taqiyya, acording to Quran, is something entirely different from what you claim Muslims practice in their lives.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #134 - February 06, 2010, 02:36 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 06, 2010, 02:24 PM
    Am I right to say that a lot of mental disorders have been learnt about through observation over a very long period of time and experience?  And that treatments (not medicinal ones) have come about due to these observations and these experiences rather than due to anything else?   So observation and experience are useful at times right?

    What makes these observations and experiences any less valid than those they use to treat mental patients?


    Right. It is just that experiences are not "arguments".

    Quote
    I would say that the reaction of muslims who still continue to defend islam even after being shown the truth is not down to taqqiya, not for most of them though, with some, yeah of course.  You get manipulative liars in all shapes and sizes.  For the rest though, they do not want to believe, they block you out by seeing you as the liar or they search for a scholar who has found a twisted way to refute the arguement you are using, so that they have something to help them ignore you.

    It's not malicious lying to you, it's sad and pitiful lying to themselves.



    Would I be correct in saying that they (referred to in the bold) deceive/delude themselves?
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #135 - February 06, 2010, 02:36 PM
    Quote from: skynightblaze on February 06, 2010, 02:29 PM
    Charles was never a christian and will never be a  christian. You can take it in writing from me provided you trust me. He is an atheist.


    I know he's an atheist... but he WAS a Christian.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #136 - February 06, 2010, 02:38 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 06, 2010, 02:30 PM
    I don't care how you view Quran... FUCK ANY FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT WHO SAYS MUSLIMS SHALL BE PERSECUTED... I PISS ON EVERY PIECE OF TRASH WHO SAYS THIS!


    Exactly my sentiments for Quran and Islam.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #137 - February 06, 2010, 02:39 PM
    Quote from: Debunker
    Let me explain with an example: let's say Pakistani Muslims kill their wives for paying them low dowries... you cannot blame this on Islam.. I hope you can understand the distinction between what Muslims do and what is actually prescribed in the Quran. Taqiyya, acording to Quran, is something entirely different from what you claim Muslims practice in their lives.


    My thread is all about behaviour of muslims rather than what islam says .The point of discussion is muslims rather than what islam says. My claim was most muslims use taqiyya to defend their religion.Now you say quran doesnt say anything of that sort . Fine all I have to do is put it in simple terms " Most muslims lie to defend their religion". My argument is independent of scripture.Yss you may have a point that quran doesnt define the Taqiyya I defined. Fine This acquits quran but not muslims who behave in a way that I defined.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #138 - February 06, 2010, 02:40 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 06, 2010, 02:36 PM
    I know he's an atheist... but he WAS a Christian.


    Doesn't matter if I was a black thief. Doesn't matter if I practice taqiyya Smiley
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #139 - February 06, 2010, 02:41 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 06, 2010, 02:36 PM
    I know he's an atheist... but he WAS a Christian.


    Its getting hilarious now . Too many conspiracy theories I guess  Cheesy
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #140 - February 06, 2010, 02:44 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on February 06, 2010, 02:29 PM
    Cheesy You have the potential of a good chess player.


    I don't think so... my twin brother almost always defeated me at chess... it was so humiliating I quit playing it 15 years ago.

    Quote
    But no, Iblis first thought I was an ex Muslim.

     

    Actually, the sniffing took a bit longer than that.

    Quote
    Do you want to ask if practice taqiyya sometimes?

     

    No. I know you do.

    Quote
    I was asked the same question earlier and I have already answered.

    That was a different type of Taqiyya (lying out of courtesy) which is different from what you did with Iblis (lying by not telling the whole truth).
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #141 - February 06, 2010, 02:44 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on February 06, 2010, 02:29 PM
    Well, you guys are taking yourselves a bit too seriously for my taste.


    Having fun is a serious business, lol.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #142 - February 06, 2010, 02:46 PM
    Quote from: skynightblaze on February 06, 2010, 02:39 PM
    My thread is all about behaviour of muslims rather than what islam says .The point of discussion is muslims rather than what islam says. My claim was most muslims use taqiyya to defend their religion.Now you say quran doesnt say anything of that sort . Fine all I have to do is put it in simple terms " Most muslims lie to defend their religion". My argument is independent of scripture.Yss you may have a point that quran doesnt define the Taqiyya I defined. Fine This acquits quran but not muslims who behave in a way that I defined.


    I don't contest what you said above.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #143 - February 06, 2010, 02:47 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 06, 2010, 02:44 PM
    I don't think so... my twin brother almost always defeated me at chess... it was so humiliating I quit playing it 15 years ago.


    Try some other game of strategy Smiley
     

    Quote
    That was a different type of Taqiyya (lying out of courtesy) which is different from what you did with Iblis (lying by not telling the whole truth).


    I am not baited, lol.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #144 - February 06, 2010, 02:48 PM
    Quote from: skynightblaze on February 06, 2010, 02:41 PM
    Its getting hilarious now . Too many conspiracy theories I guess  Cheesy


    Wait! Are you saying Charles was NEVER a Christian? yes/no? Did I mix him up with someone else, then?  Huh?
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #145 - February 06, 2010, 02:53 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 06, 2010, 02:48 PM
    Wait! Are you saying Charles was NEVER a Christian? yes/no? Did I mix him up someone else, then?  Huh?


    He is not going to be baited too.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #146 - February 06, 2010, 02:57 PM
    I'm not baiting anyone, I'm done here...
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #147 - February 06, 2010, 02:59 PM
    Quote from: charlesmartel on February 06, 2010, 01:36 PM
    even after being shown valid evidence if a Muslim continues to deny his claim, then he is practicing taqiya


    That's not Taqiyya/Lying - that's the typical selective vision of all religious people... in fact that is the human condition - regardless of whether one is religious or not.

    But I bow to skynightblazes superior knowledge of Islam based on wikipedia and internet forums.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #148 - February 06, 2010, 03:01 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 06, 2010, 02:57 PM
    I'm not baiting anyone, I'm done here...


    I am done here too. See you in some other thread.
    Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
    Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.
  • Re: My reply to skynightblaze
     Reply #149 - February 06, 2010, 04:17 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 06, 2010, 02:59 PM
    That's not Taqiyya/Lying - that's the typical selective vision of all religious people... in fact that is the human condition - regardless of whether one is religious or not.

    But I bow to skynightblazes superior knowledge of Islam based on wikipedia and internet forums.


    Remember its not just 1 but all the sites that you are accusing of lying . Those sites includes even muslim sites. I  think I have said enough here. I am done,
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