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Theme Changer

 Topic: The Story of Sulayman

 (Read 83806 times)
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  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #510 - February 26, 2010, 04:24 PM

    maybe I am a child or have the mentality of a child at least - got a problem with that?

     Huh?

    dood are you really serious?
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #511 - February 26, 2010, 08:29 PM

    Hi Soren,

    Your comments are of course much appreciated as always. Just one point I would like to make - I'm sure that I only know very little detail of God's plan for us after we die, and I am open to what the nature of 'heaven' and 'hell' will actually be like. I do however beleive we will be judged on a basis taking into account the personal circumstances/capabilities/knowledge of each of us as individuals - and that each individual will receive perfect justice.

    Regards

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #512 - February 26, 2010, 08:36 PM

    Hi Soren,

    Your comments are of course much appreciated as always. Just one point I would like to make - I'm sure that I only know very little detail of God's plan for us after we die, and I am open to what the nature of 'heaven' and 'hell' will actually be like. I do however beleive we will be judged on a basis taking into account the personal circumstances/capabilities/knowledge of each of us as individuals - and that each individual will receive perfect justice.

    Regards

    I hope you do realise that these views take you out of the category of even a Quran-only muslim. 

    A better category to put you in would probably be a theist, sufi or a Byname-only muslim..

    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #513 - February 26, 2010, 08:43 PM

    If you say so my friend. btw you're not really an agnostic, you just worship yourself and other humans and you think that Science is God, even though God created the laws of science.  grin12

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #514 - February 26, 2010, 09:29 PM

    And you believe in a divine book which was revealed to a desert dwelling arab from the 7th century. A man that heard and saw things nobody else did. But was not alone in being a Prophet that saw and heard things nobody else did. But of course they were false prophets and he was right. And the language of this divine book is in Ancient Arabic. And this book is the truth of all truths, the eternal truth of a God. It has the stories of other desert-dwellers, people who believed in Jinns and Multiple Gods and Goddesses. People that even guided with divine light could only spread their religion by conquering other territories. And that never found sciences of their own from the book. But from other earlier sources and then on their own.  


    For some reason the Aztecs did not receive the divine religion, nor did the people of the Indus Valley, nor the Aboriginals or the people from China.

    All their scriptures along with the Jewish and Christian scriptures were all altered, but somehow this one hasn't because God says so in the book. It's true because He says its true. Not that you've heard him say that it's true. But because its in a book. A book you can't really verify is true because of the hazy accounts of its collection.

    Fast forward this to a scientist living in the 21th century that works with molecular biology and believes this book is true because he has Faith that its true. Yet who must at some level be amazed that so most people in the world before Islam and after Islam do not share his belief. Nor does he practice Islam the way other muslims do. Somehow, not only has he found the One Real Truth, but also the One True Interpretation.

    Of course being an intelligent person he will say he might be wrong but he has faith that he is not wrong. Covering both the intellectual and the spiritual realm of truth.

    Right...


    And I say this with love Abu, tough love better buck up rough winds ahead.
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #515 - February 26, 2010, 09:36 PM

    even though God created the laws of science.  grin12

    You are assuming that man, also how can you be sure only 1 god created us? and not a group of gods? and how can you be sure that the god/gods that created us still even exists?

    without incontestable evidence supporting your premise, your entire argument rests on a castle made of sand.
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #516 - February 26, 2010, 09:38 PM

    You are assuming that man, also how can you be sure only 1 god created us? and not a group of gods? and how can you be sure that the god/gods that created us still even exists?

    without incontestable evidence supporting your premise, your entire argument rests on a castle made of sand.


    Not only that how do you know that its YOUR God that created them? Your interpretation of God? And that this is the God of Islam?

    Ah let me guess, faith.

    Imagine if I told you I believed in the Greek Pantheon?
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #517 - February 27, 2010, 09:54 AM

    In the Quran why does God say wal shams wal qmara YASBAHOON

    and the sun and the moon SWIM

    Hassan. Is that the word for swim back then as well?

    If so, did they people back then believe the sun and moon floated in water? Or the heaven outside the earth consisted of water?

    Check this video out, It's about Christianity and other beliefs and their views on earth and heaven, talks about the world being in cased in a sphere of some sort so water does not get through:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnj7PlqmJ5o&NR=1
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #518 - February 27, 2010, 09:57 AM

    BD, have you read the verse about Dhul Qarnayn (Alexander the Great) inthe Quran?


    Quote from: Quran 18:86
    Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: near it he found a people: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority), either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."


    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #519 - February 27, 2010, 09:58 AM

    lol i love that it makes me giggle
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #520 - February 27, 2010, 10:01 AM

    BD, have you read the verse about Dhul Qarnayn (Alexander the Great) inthe Quran?


    You know, when it says that he rode to where the sun sets i.e. the West, it is also wrong.  Alexander carved out his empire towards the East of his Greek homeland.  He never went Westwards.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #521 - February 27, 2010, 10:05 AM

    He never conquered Europe, or he had already conquered it?

    Is the movie Alexander any good I need to learn more about the man.
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #522 - February 27, 2010, 10:08 AM

    @RAS
    Yeah, I noticed that too. We cannot be 100% certain the character is Alexander.

    I guess the bigger question is, was is it common knowledge to the Arabs of Mo's time what territories Alexander conquered? They must have known where greece was, and they must have known that Persia lay east of that.

    The big thing is the concept of the "two horned" one (translation of dhul-qarnain) is distinctly related to Alexander since it directly references his depictions in certain coinage that would have been prevalent in the middle east:



    You can see him with the ram's horn, signifying the divinity bestowed on him by the Egyptian oracle.



    @ BD, he never touched Europe. Europe was a poor shithole at this time. Persia was where the money was.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #523 - February 27, 2010, 10:13 AM

    The early muslim scholars said it was him and then they backtracked and say it was a Persian Emperor. I think maybe Cyrus. Not sure if the majority of scholars say it's Cyrus, and that idea came about when they realized Alexander was a pagan. There are two problems here, 1. Can Cyrus really be referred to as Two Horns? 2. Was he really a believer in Allah? Or at least a God similar to Allah?

    And don't forget Gog and Magog. The great wall hiding away the hordes of I don't know what.

    I used to think that was the China Wall for some reason lol
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #524 - February 27, 2010, 10:16 AM

    1. NO
    2. NO

    Cyrus was most definitely neither.

    Fact is, Dhul Qarnain is a rip off of the "Alexander Romance" - the mythical representation of the pagan and bisexual Alexander as a believing king. The Christians started this and Mo copied the folklore:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_in_the_Qur%27an#Theological_controversy

    Explains it really well.

    Basically.. the Quran fucked up.. AGAIN.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #525 - February 27, 2010, 10:31 AM

    Iblis, lol, come on man. Are you gonna take history as proof? You know history can not be proven.

    The absence of evidence does not prove evidence of absence. lol i am so smart lol there is no fallacy there, i dont mind if we use that line of thinking at court

    also lol dude whats next science? lol science keeps changing, how can something that change be absolute truth? lol

    oh wait oh wait lol i know whats next the other religions and how they have been proven false, well lol quran says they are false or altered so whats news, thansk for proving the quran RIGHT, AGAIN LOL

    its gonna be so sweet when you burn in hell and im reclining in my La-Z-Boy in heaven while getting head from houri and sipping on my ice tea under some nice palm trees LOL cant wait its like the Will Smith song Miami, only halal ROFL
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #526 - February 27, 2010, 10:36 AM

    The only way to be a muslim in todays world is to focus on things that does not contradict it and then ignore everything else. All the facts and doubts around ignore them. Anything that can create doubt ignore it. If sira brings doubt dont read it. If AronRa's videos on youtube brings doubt ignore it. If Hassan's blog brings doubt, ignore it, if you watch it and you feel the weird sensation in your gut, that weird "tear in the fabric of the universe", dizziness, cold sweat and a shudder, a jolt of electricity down your spine then log on to his youtube page and fucking destroy him, not with logic or evidence but with swear words, he made you feel like shit, make him feel like shit
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #527 - February 27, 2010, 10:46 AM

    Hi Soren,

    Your comments are of course much appreciated as always. Just one point I would like to make - I'm sure that I only know very little detail of God's plan for us after we die, and I am open to what the nature of 'heaven' and 'hell' will actually be like. I do however beleive we will be judged on a basis taking into account the personal circumstances/capabilities/knowledge of each of us as individuals - and that each individual will receive perfect justice.

    Regards


    Hi Abu

    And the same to you.

    Quote
    I do however beleive we will be judged on a basis taking into account the personal circumstances/capabilities/knowledge of each of us as individuals - and that each individual will receive perfect justice.


    Alright. Lets review some cases (fictional, cause it's easier. But that does not mean that such similar things arent happening).

    Case 1. Adolf Hitler was told by his forefathers that it was the duty of true believers to try clear the earth of Jews. They even past down a book containing a set of rules from which Hitler could see that this was true. Though he somehow felt that it was inhumane to kill other humans he was nevertheless convinced that he had to obey the Rules as set by his god. And therefore many Jews was killed directly or indirectly by Hitler.

    Case 2. Man was married to a woman. They were both raised in the same group of people who followed the same set of Rules as set by their god. One day the woman was in the big city and experienced that there were other kinds of Rules. She started to doubt her own Rules and that they were truly from a god. So she began not to follow all of the rules set out in the Rules. This saddened the man cause he fervently believed that everyone had to follow the Rules to recieve rewards in the afterlife. Besides there was a rule within the Rules that the man should disciplin the woman if she did not obey the Rules by taking different approaches, the final approach was to beat her. And when she did not started to follow the Rules the man had to make sure she did by beating her. And so she was beaten.

    Case 3. Man was married to woman and had a couple of childrens. They were all raised within the same set of Rules as set by their god. One of the childrens, a girl in her teens, became terminally ill. She urgently needed a blodtransfusion. But according to the Rules the family was following she was not allowed to receive blood from another person. The girl however wanted to stay alive so she wished to get the medical treatment she could get, but her parents in obiedence to their god refused to let her have the treatment. And so she died.

    Now in these cases we have a couple of persons who believes in a god (one god). They believe that this god has sent down a set of Rules to be followed. They do things that in my view is unlawful and injust, but in their eyes they are merely following the set of Rules as set out by their god. Are they to be punished for these acts or rewarded?

    You could make many such cases where people are doing different kinds of awful acts which they however thinks is sanctioned by their god(s) (fx the Mayans who sacrificed humans at the top of their pyramids; the Pope who has set a ban on the use of condoms; African shamans who kills albinos; the Nigerian priest who argues that child-whitches should be killed/punished; Muslim men who took captives and turned them into slaves (and concubines) during war). What are the standards? The Qur'an, the Bible, the Veda, the Book of Mormon, the Avesta, the sayings of Confucius, the sayings of Socrates? All these books contain hidious elements, and if followed they would result in injust acts.

    We have a clear idea about many things that are injust, but as is clear in the case of our courtrooms the barrier between just and injust acts are not always clear. Their was a documentary the other day in danish television about a woman who had killed her husband. Why? Cause he had said that he would kill their child. He did not have a smoking gun in his hand, but she felt that she knew him well enough and she was sure that he would do it (the reason he would go as far as to kill the child was to make sure that thewife would not divorce him (erhmm?!?)). Was it just to kill the man or injust? The daughter openly thanked her mum for doing it.
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #528 - February 27, 2010, 11:33 AM

    How much of a God is Allah who made 128,000 failed prophets and then Muhammad with a final message?

    ^ certainly not expected from an all mighty and all knowing god
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #529 - February 27, 2010, 09:00 PM

    Wow! Never looked at it in that way. Great insight.  Afro
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #530 - February 27, 2010, 09:02 PM

    How much of a God is Allah who made 128,000 failed prophets and then Muhammad with a final message?

    ^ certainly not expected from an all mighty and all knowing god


    Muslims would say that the others were "local" prophets and so their message was never intended to go beyond their time and place.
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #531 - February 27, 2010, 09:07 PM

    But it is nonsensical - why send a prophet to 'every people' in a distant time and let the vast majority of them be forgotten without trace - including by those very same people - and why allow the messages that did remain to become 'corrupted'?

    And why make all this happen in a time when people were primitive and believed all sorts of silly stuff but then before man has advanced enough to properly record, check, verify and communicate it easily to the whole world... stop!
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #532 - February 27, 2010, 09:14 PM

    where does this oft repeated figure of 128,000 prophets come from - quran or hadith?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #533 - February 27, 2010, 09:16 PM

    Hadith.

    But the Qur'an does say he sent a prophet to 'every people.' (It's just that only the one's we know of come from the Middle East by some strange quirk of fate... go figure  Roll Eyes )
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #534 - February 27, 2010, 10:32 PM

    Not to mention the crazy variations of beliefs and rituals.

    The varying creationism stories.

    The varying views on Gods and Goddesses.

    The varying views on the Afterlife.

    And the different rituals.
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #535 - February 28, 2010, 01:18 PM

    Hassan the story of Noah and his ark. Does it say the world drowned in the Quran? Or that all humans drowned? Or was it just his people?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Noah
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #536 - February 28, 2010, 05:22 PM

    From what I've been told, it was his people and not the whole world.
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #537 - February 28, 2010, 06:21 PM

    But it is nonsensical - why send a prophet to 'every people' in a distant time and let the vast majority of them be forgotten without trace - including by those very same people - and why allow the messages that did remain to become 'corrupted'?

    And why make all this happen in a time when people were primitive and believed all sorts of silly stuff but then before man has advanced enough to properly record, check, verify and communicate it easily to the whole world... stop!


    Excellent points. And seriously that is all I need to denounce Allah or any other god. If they trule were all-mighty and all-knowning, then surely they would not commit such mistakes. I don't need to refute the quran, hadith, or anything else. The evidence of Islam being an epic fail for Allah is clear for everyone to see.
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #538 - February 28, 2010, 08:19 PM

    My video has just been demolished by this comment:

    samirrrritaliy (20 hours ago)   0    Reply | Spam
    | Remove | Block User
    fuck you You can not understand anything of Islam are only one man who makes stupid bla bla bla my friend Islam and the Quran is written by God, the God he knows that that is a true story
  • Re: The Story of Sulayman
     Reply #539 - February 28, 2010, 08:19 PM

     Cheesy

    Gotta love musulmans, eh?

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

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