Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →
↑ ↓
CEMB → Forum → Welcome to the forum → The Lounge → Traitors

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts

New Britain
February 17, 2025, 11:51 PM
اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
February 15, 2025, 04:00 PM
Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
February 14, 2025, 08:00 AM
Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
February 13, 2025, 10:07 PM
Muslim grooming gangs sti...
February 13, 2025, 08:20 PM
German nationalist party ...
February 13, 2025, 01:15 PM
Lights on the way
by akay
February 13, 2025, 01:08 PM
Russia invades Ukraine
February 13, 2025, 11:01 AM
Islam and Science Fiction
February 11, 2025, 11:57 PM
Do humans have needed kno...
February 06, 2025, 03:13 PM
Gaza assault
February 05, 2025, 10:04 AM
AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
February 03, 2025, 09:25 AM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Traitors

 (Read 4532 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Traitors
     OP - February 08, 2010, 07:32 PM
    Does anybody feel like a traitor for denouncing Islam, or at least think that people would think of them as traitors if they knew that they had denounced Islam? And has anyone ever been called a traitor for this reason?

    I think that is one thing that really gets to me, if people thought of me as a traitor.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #1 - February 08, 2010, 07:40 PM
    Traitor, sell out, coconut  Roll Eyes Yeah I've been called that.

    Does have any truth to it?

    Depends. Tribalizing ones intellectual views is a pretty backwards way of thinking. Besides, living most of my life in the west it seems odd for other Canadian Muslims to call be a traitor when they have accept that same piece of citizenship paper.

    I never had much loyalty to the musulman community to begin with. I think that's the case for most bengalis, the general disconnection and pakistani/arab domination makes it easier for us to become "traitors" to something we only play a small part in anyways. Besides, our ethnicity is distinct from islam, we have lots of Hindus too. So muslamic loyalty matters even less with that in mind.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #2 - February 08, 2010, 08:10 PM
    Yes, sadly I always get that feeling. It's a really horrible one. Another one is bringing shame onto my parents and the community. Occasionally, I get a feeling of guilt as well. I'm my parent's only child and they really have a very high expectation of me. I'm pretty sure that they'll be devastated if they know that I apostated.
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #3 - February 08, 2010, 08:30 PM
    Quote from: Shirdon on February 08, 2010, 08:10 PM
    Yes, sadly I always get that feeling. It's a really horrible one. Another one is bringing shame onto my parents and the community. Occasionally, I get a feeling of guilt as well. I'm my parent's only child and they really have a very high expectation of me. I'm pretty sure that they'll be devastated if they know that I apostated.

    I can relate to what you said.
    I really want to tell my parents about my apostasy, but seeing how they have invested so much into bringing me up and educating me just to tell them I am not a Muslim anymore is going to totally disappoint them. Thinking of how it would also affect their image in the society is is even more off-putting. I am now studying in the UK which makes things a lot much easier..... for the time being.

    Though tbh, I don't feel like a traitor or anything, just sometimes I wish I was oblivious to all this and remained an ignorant Muslim to avoid all this mind-wreck.
    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #4 - February 08, 2010, 08:42 PM
    Quote from: aliadiere on February 08, 2010, 07:32 PM
    Does anybody feel like a traitor for denouncing Islam, or at least think that people would think of them as traitors if they knew that they had denounced Islam? And has anyone ever been called a traitor for this reason?

    I think that is one thing that really gets to me, if people thought of me as a traitor.

    I think it quite sad that you feel this way, I never felt like this nor should you have to. Perhaps its because you are still young and have a strong affiliation to the identity, I dont know but it must be a horrible feeling either way...  My guess is that it will pass with age and as you become more independent and responsible for who you are..
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #5 - February 08, 2010, 10:20 PM
    I don't feel like a traitor at all. What gets to me is knowing the Muslim Community, and knowing what the Muslim community is like, that for becoming an apostate you would be seen as a traitor rather than somebody who has made an independent, intelectual decision.
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #6 - February 08, 2010, 10:24 PM
    I see.  Yes, in that case I get that impression from other muslims, a bit like I sold out to another easier ideology for self gain.  I think there is an additional level of resentment laced into this because they are having to pray 5 times a day, and live a certain type of life and they live with the fear of hell, whereas we dont..
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #7 - February 08, 2010, 10:26 PM
    These are remnants of war attitudes. The ummah is a community under siege, Islam is battling against disbelief, there can never be integration between the Muslims and the kuffar, and therefore, war conditions prevail.

    Its just part of the extraordinary social dynamic and pressures that Islam can assert on an individual - after all the hellfire, the horrors awaiting those who leave the fold, there is the next crime, of apostasy, traitorousness, sedition, and being an Uncle Tom. These are the grassroots tricks and ruses that the ummah uses to keep its captives in line - pressure that is psychological and social, grinding moral and emotional coercion.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #8 - February 08, 2010, 10:28 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 08, 2010, 10:24 PM
    resentment laced into this because they are having to pray 5 times a day, and live a certain type of life and they live with the fear of hell, whereas we dont..


    I remember after my apostasy a pakistani student friend of mine told me "it is so much easier to live without belief, no worries or duties" - in a kind of mocking, condescending way.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #9 - February 08, 2010, 10:33 PM
    Quote from: billy on February 08, 2010, 10:26 PM
    These are remnants of war attitudes. The ummah is a community under siege,

    Agree - the psychology is eerily similar.  I mean how many true wahhabiists (what I believe to be a true musalman because they take Gods scriptures literally) as a percentage of muslims not only in the west but around the globe?

    I would hazard a guess at less than 1%, and hence its not under siege, its already lost the war.  
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #10 - February 08, 2010, 10:35 PM
    Quote from: billy on February 08, 2010, 10:26 PM
    The ummah is a community under siege, Islam is battling against disbelief, there can never be integration between the Muslims and the kuffar, and therefore, war conditions prevail.

    You know, I always felt and I still do that there will be no real coexistence (based on real respect towards one another) between Muslims and non-Muslims as long as there is so much hostility towards interfaith (or no-faith) marriages and towards apostasy.
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #11 - February 08, 2010, 10:47 PM
    read the quran, its quite clear.  the meme MUST grow at all costs..
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #12 - February 08, 2010, 11:10 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 08, 2010, 10:24 PM
    I see.  Yes, in that case I get that impression from other muslims, a bit like I sold out to another easier ideology for self gain.  I think there is an additional level of resentment laced into this because they are having to pray 5 times a day, and live a certain type of life and they live with the fear of hell, whereas we dont..


    I really hate that bit! That is such an easy argument to use to dismiss your views!
    Religion - The hot potato that looked delicious but ended up burning your mouth!

    Knock your head on the ground, don't be miserly in your prayers, listen to your Sidi Sheikh, Allahu Akbar! - Lounes Matoub
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #13 - February 08, 2010, 11:29 PM
    The bit that really gets my goat is when they look at you with pity, and try to help you.  Like wonder where you went wrong in life.  They ask you why you left Islam, and when you give them a deep philosophical answer they sound relieved, like it can be solved.  They were half expecting something like the devil approached me and threatened to cut my testicles off unless I worshipped him  signmuahaha
    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #14 - February 09, 2010, 09:19 AM
    I have not come out (and don't plan on doing it), but I doubt that, should I tell my family and friends, they wouldn't necessarily regard me as a traitor. More like a poor, damned soul whose heart Allah put a seal on. Or an idiot with a weak mind who has been too influenced by the Western culture, through TV, movies and books.

    However, I would like to marry a foreigner with a Christian background, and when they find out about THAT, the accusation of treason will start raining on me.
    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #15 - February 09, 2010, 11:25 AM
    Come on guys if anyone calls you a traitor ask them are White converts to Islam traitors too?
    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #16 - February 09, 2010, 11:28 AM
    The reason apostates can be killed is because they are seen as traitors commiting treason, it's ridiculous, but this is islam, whaddaya expect?  sheikh
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #17 - February 09, 2010, 11:45 AM
    Quote from: pakman on February 09, 2010, 11:25 AM
    Come on guys if anyone calls you a traitor ask them are White converts to Islam traitors too?


    Islam considers them to be traitors to their own people, but it doesn't call them that or use such terminology. That's why each conversion is celebrated as if it is an enemy soldier defecting towards the army of the righteous, that is why they are displayed like captives in a North Korean propaganda video with his thumbs up talking about how great his or her new home is, and how terrible and soul less and lacking of moral fibre their previous life was. Each conversion is a defection from jahil and barbarianism to civilisation. That is exactly how Muslims conceive of and propagate and celebrate conversions to Islam. They would think of them as 'defections' and repudiators of darkness though - but the dynamic is the same. Islam believes that 'treachery' is required for it to triumph and inferiority complex ridden and insecure Allah can have his self esteem raised by each traitor of jahil becoming civilised and enlightened.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #18 - February 09, 2010, 11:47 AM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 09, 2010, 11:28 AM
    The reason apostates can be killed is because they are seen as traitors commiting treason


    Exactly right.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #19 - February 09, 2010, 12:22 PM
    Recently I been getting calls from a Muslim friend from when I was Muslim. I been ignoring them, but part of me thinks I should just tell him straight and not be ashamed about it. But then I think, so what, he is in my past now, it doesn't matter whether he knows I'm a Muslim or not.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #20 - February 09, 2010, 12:28 PM
    I know how you feel.  Twice an ex sister in law of mine has tried to contact me on facebook, and twice I have ignored her message, because I know, even though I don't really care as we never were close really, and yet I do care in a way, the minute I am honest, what the reaction will be.

    I am caught between just replying and saying "hey girl, I'm good, nothing much to report, infact the only change in my life is that I am no longer a muslim, so how have you been?" to not replying at all.

    I want to do the first, infact fuck it, I am going to do the first.  For all I know she could already know, but then again maybe not, it's not like my family are boasting about it.  Cheesy
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #21 - February 09, 2010, 12:57 PM
    Good on you! I suppose what I fear is that I might be killed. You never know... a lot of these Muslims have been brought up in such a way that they can't think about morality in terms any other than what is laid down in the Qur'an. I'm not sure how probable it is that one of these Muslims would kill me, but I've met my fair share of scary Muslims (who I wouldn't like to get on the wrong side of), and I know how news spreads in the Muslim community, so I dread talking to anybody in the Muslim community anymore.

    There is this one guy who seems okay but he hangs out with some pretty fanatical Muslims and he told me that MI5 is on him... so I suspect there is something dodgy about him. Well I still had some books of his from when I was a Muslim (by this point I had left Islam) and he rung me up asking for the books back. Although I really didn't want to, I knew that keeping the books would effectively be stealing, so I agreed to meet up with him. He parked up and I got into his car and he goes "I heard you left Islam". My fucking god I was trembling. Part of me wanted to just open the door and run as fast as I could. I just said something like "it's funny how things are blown out of proportion, hehe. I'm having a few doubts, but I haven't left Islam, no.."

    Afterwards I thought to myself, how the hell does he know?! I only told one Muslim in the community (thinking he would sympathize but ended up falling out with me) and those two don't even know each other!
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #22 - February 09, 2010, 01:03 PM
    Wow.  I think I would have been trembling too.  Stuck in fight or flight or say something to make it alright lolw.  I prefer to be the one to tell when I;m ready, so that situations like you described don't happen. 

    I don't know about the rest of you, but I had to pump myself up mentally the day I told anyone, just like as if I was entering into a fight.  On the other hand when muslims ask me, I sort of panic, with no pre-mental-pumping I get tongue tied and end up saying something vague and stupid. 015
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #23 - February 09, 2010, 01:12 PM
    I usually find myself saying something stupid when I get nervous but when it comes to telling people I left Islam I'm usually quite good at it for some reason. Probz because I look forward to having a debate with them and pwning them. I can't believe there are so many Muslims out there to be honest who actually believe the crap that comes out of their mouth.

    I need to watch myself sometimes though. When I came to uni I met a couple of Muslims at arabic class and I just freely told them I left Islam and explained why. One of them asked me "is it true that Muslims are supposed to kill ex-Muslims". It probably wasn't in my best interest to say "YEAH! That's another thing... they're required to kill ex-Muslims in an Islamic state... what happened to no compulsion in religion?" but I said it anyway lol.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #24 - February 09, 2010, 01:17 PM
    Yeah, I've done that too lol but I mostly end up talking to girls in clubs or pubs, and they are usually frightened of me.  Wink  So telling them islam says they have to kill me is no big deal.

    On the other hand, it's when men ask, that's when I panic and depending on my mood I either go vague, or go forceful and proudly yet aggressively answer their question.
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #25 - February 09, 2010, 02:06 PM
    It's like a gang.
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #26 - February 09, 2010, 02:07 PM
    bang.

    Oops, thought we were doing word association.  Cheesy
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #27 - February 09, 2010, 02:09 PM
    Or a cult? My think of a cult as being a group that ostracizes non-members. My gf says a cult is just another word for a large group with specific beliefs though.... wouldn't that make all religions a cult?
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #28 - February 09, 2010, 02:10 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on February 09, 2010, 02:07 PM
    bang.

    Oops, thought we were doing word association.  Cheesy


    lol

    dang
  • Re: Traitors
     Reply #29 - February 09, 2010, 02:10 PM
    Quote from: J4m3z on February 09, 2010, 02:09 PM
    Or a cult? My think of a cult as being a group that ostracizes non-members. My gf says a cult is just another word for a large group with specific beliefs though.... wouldn't that make all religions a cult?


    They would. It would make Mo a cult leader.
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »