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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Polygamy, with the consent and knowledge of all parties involved, should be  (Voting closed: February 18, 2010, 06:54 PM)
  • outlawed in all forms - 2 (10.5%)
  • decriminalized but with no legal recognition by the state - 4 (21.1%)
  • decriminalized and recognized under civil law - 13 (68.4%)
  • Total Voters: 19

 Topic: Polygamy

 (Read 17023 times)
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  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #90 - February 13, 2010, 03:16 AM
    Iblis, of course men are women are different but what allat and Manat are saying (I think) is that men should treat women as they would like to be treated.
    So for example don't boast about how many chicks you have fucked but then get angry and shit when you find out that your fiance has done her share of sleeping around.
     
    I know it's hard not only for us ex-Muslims but even for Westerners. Many Westerners would be more comfortable with their son fucking than their daughter. Doesn't make it right though. It's a double-standard that is a remnant of that old medieval mentality and we, males, are gonna have to cut out.

    I personally have vowed to change myself and although it's been challenging I have made a lot of progress. Three years ago I wouldn't have even thought of marrying a non-virgin, today I'm much more open-minded and I would have no problem with marrying a "slut". My logic is simple, I'm also promiscuous why can't she be?
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #91 - February 13, 2010, 03:18 AM
    Like I said, Iblis, I know you were joking around.

    And, if my problem was with you, you'd know about it.

    My problem is that many especially younger male ex-Muslims on this forum hold on to the conservative, puritanism of Islam and the Abrahamic religions. I don't see that as an improvement on being a Muslim or Abrahamic follower.

    As for differences between men and women, very little differences are determined by biology, most are socially imposed and thus only there when society consents to limit gender roles for both men and women.

    Now, if you want to take a philosophy of sexuality or history of sexuality or gender studies course, you would read about the biological, psychological and anthropological findings in this area. I've talked about this in other threads. There are differences but the psychological differences between different men and between different women are much wider than between men and women in general.

    You can approach the matter with an open mind to learn what the research and analysis in the field of sexuality studies shows, or you can approach it to reinforce your preconceived notions. I work in this field and am going to grad school to study sexuality and social anthropology. I can recommend some authors like Michel Foucault, Judith Butler, Joan E. Roughgarden, among others. Cultural attitudes have changed, nobody is denying that. Doesn't mean they can't improve. The point that several of the female members of this forum are making is that this forum (not necessarily the larger Western hemisphere) is kinda sorta a sausagefest and has been for a while. There are some great guys in here, but you have to kind of wonder why the older guys rarely post, and why most of the women stay away.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #92 - February 13, 2010, 11:22 AM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on February 13, 2010, 03:16 AM
    Three years ago I wouldn't have even thought of marrying a non-virgin, ...

    Can you please explain why? What is so alluring about (female) virginity? Is it a about control?
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #93 - February 13, 2010, 12:23 PM
     popcorn
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  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #94 - February 13, 2010, 01:14 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on February 13, 2010, 11:22 AM
    Can you please explain why? What is so alluring about (female) virginity? Is it a about control?


    She pure. Never sucked another mans dick. Respeek
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #95 - February 13, 2010, 02:52 PM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 13, 2010, 01:14 PM
    Never sucked another mans dick.

    Is this a positive or negative criticism?
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #96 - February 13, 2010, 03:38 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on February 13, 2010, 11:22 AM
    Can you please explain why? What is so alluring about (female) virginity? Is it a about control?

    Nothing is alluring about it. It's because I was a typical Iraqi Muslim. It wasn't a personal preference or anything, in fact I always thought that ideally a boy and a girl should get to know each other and sleep together before getting married.
    It was because of the indoctrination of the backward society I grew up in where virginity was closely-associated with morality and honor. And even back then I was considered by my friends one of the most liberal among them because I said that I was OK with marrying a girl who had been engaged or has had a boyfriend or had kissed.

    I'm surprised you asked this question Kenan. Have you never heard of the Islamic concepts of zina, iffa....etc ? never heard of honor killings? I mean these things are kinda big in Islamic societies specially in one with tribalistic elements like Iraq.


    Quote from: BlackDog on February 13, 2010, 01:14 PM
    She pure. Never sucked another mans dick. Respeek

    As I said that wasn't the main reason tbh. I always thought I should not expect the girl to be more chaste or prudish than I was. Although that is exactly how many in Iraq think. You know while they're fucking hookers left and right. So in a way it's not solely a Muslim or an "honor" thing because last time I checked the male is never the victim in any of these honor killings. That's why I have been bitching and grumbling about Iraqi society.


    Quote from: Kenan on February 13, 2010, 02:52 PM
    Is this a positive or negative criticism?

    Negative for sure !
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #97 - February 13, 2010, 03:50 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on February 13, 2010, 03:38 PM
    I'm surprised you asked this question Kenan. Have you never heard of the Islamic concepts of zina, iffa....etc ? never heard of honor killings? I mean these things are kinda big in Islamic societies specially in one with tribalistic elements like Iraq.

    Sure I have! But I was wondering what the answer might be on a purely personal level; you are clearly an open minded individual and I was wondering how you rationalized it to yourself.

    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on February 13, 2010, 03:38 PM
    Negative for sure !

    What, good BJ skills are not important? Grin
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #98 - February 13, 2010, 04:13 PM
    I agree with Iblis, a few months back I said nature (evolution) dictates the male of mammal species to dominate the women, and the females of the mammal species are mostly submissive, these traits are innate it clearly had a benefit to the species hence why these traits are still retained, i.e. it benefits society for the female to be the nurturer/offspring raiser, and the male to be the hunter/gatherer.

    However feminist propaganda disregards 200 million years of naturalistic history. To change the roles could in-fact be devastating to the human species. As of today, there are no surviving polyandry societies. Women being dominant (outside of role-playing) does not work.

    Stating facts does not make one a misogynist, it makes the intelligent. We cannot have a completely ambivalent attitude evolutionary history which is about 3.5 billion years old.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #99 - February 13, 2010, 04:38 PM
    Quote from: Kenan on February 13, 2010, 03:50 PM
    Sure I have! But I was wondering what the answer might be on a purely personal level; you are clearly an open minded individual and I was wondering how you rationalized it to yourself.

    I never rationalized it to myself. How can I expect the girl to be chaste when I wasn't? as simple as that. Even a Muslim can't rationalize it because Allah didn't differentiate between the sexes when it came to fornication.
    I was pressured by society. I couldn't say it out loud. When I told my friends that I'm OK with marrying a girl who had been engaged and had kissed her fiance, they were flabbergasted, they said that I was out of my mind and called me loony. Imagine how they would have reacted if I told them that I would marry a girl who has had sex!!
    Mind you those friends were bright students at the best medical school in the country, you know the ones who are supposed to be liberal and open-minded.

    And btw, there's no way I could have debated them. Because no matter what you say and no matter how strong the points you make they can always resort to that silly coward counterargument of "so would you accept it for your sister?". It happened to me once and had I responded "yes" I would have been excommunicated so I had to concede.
     
    Quote from: Kenan on February 13, 2010, 03:50 PM
    What, good BJ skills are not important? Grin

    I was being sarcastic.
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #100 - February 13, 2010, 04:47 PM
    Thanks! This sort of an explanation is exactly what I was hoping for.

    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on February 13, 2010, 04:38 PM
    I was being sarcastic.

    I wasn't entirely serious either. Besides you actually agreed with what I was hinting at. You sneaky, you!

  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #101 - February 13, 2010, 05:01 PM
     bunny
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #102 - February 13, 2010, 05:12 PM
     Cheesy Yeah just realized !!! with me double negatives almost always lead to a mix-up 

    Let me be clear, I appreciate good BJ skills. So when we say "never sucked a man's dick" it's negative criticism.   Wink
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #103 - February 13, 2010, 05:27 PM
    Kenan is not very smart. I don't think so at least.



    Anyways I never heard of positive and negative criticism? What the hell is positive criticism?

  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #104 - February 14, 2010, 01:22 AM
    postive criticism is criticism aimed at helping you, the other is supposed to bring you down..
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  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #105 - February 14, 2010, 09:37 AM
    Quote from: BlackDog on February 13, 2010, 05:27 PM
    Kenan is not very smart. I don't think so at least.

     Cheesy Good one! Thats the spirit! (Sadly, you are right. I also tend to use too much sarcasm when trying to get a point across and I am often caustic for the sake of it. It's probably a good thing that I don't have to tie my shoes either.)
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #106 - February 14, 2010, 10:29 AM
    Quote from: Kenan on February 14, 2010, 09:37 AM
    Cheesy Good one! Thats the spirit! (Sadly, you are right. I also tend to use too much sarcasm when trying to get a point across and I am often caustic for the sake of it. It's probably a good thing that I don't have to tie my shoes either.)


     grin12
  • Re: Polygamy
     Reply #107 - February 14, 2010, 10:46 AM
    Thats why I prefer slip-ons - I like to wear shoes like this when i go out

    Attached image is missing * c1[2].jpg (25.1 KB, 400x294 - viewed 512 times.)
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  • Polygamy
     Reply #108 - January 28, 2015, 10:15 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7HKmu3eMEk
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Polygamy
     Reply #109 - January 28, 2015, 10:43 PM
    Four pages and nobody has mentioned the biggest problem with polygamy. Four wives gets you four mothers in law.

     finmad finmad finmad finmad
  • Polygamy
     Reply #110 - January 29, 2015, 02:36 AM
    Mothers in law are not such an issue for Muslim men. Mothers in law are women, so they do not usually move in the same sphere.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Polygamy
     Reply #111 - January 29, 2015, 03:01 AM
    Quote from: shootist on January 28, 2015, 10:43 PM
    Four pages and nobody has mentioned the biggest problem with polygamy. Four wives gets you four mothers in law.

     finmad finmad finmad finmad

    that tells me shootist had no connection with any Muslim family...

    In Muslim families, Mother of a male species that marries a woman /four women is the problem . She often(NOT ALWAYS) is the problem to the young woman who married a Muslim guy
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Polygamy
     Reply #112 - January 29, 2015, 06:04 AM
    Amen. I noticed what you said was a joke, shootist, but it's worth noting the ironic reality is that in many places where Islam is heavily practiced, the mother-in-law becomes the hassle of the new bride. In some cases, the wife will be expected to obey her mother-in-law just like she would her husband, or will have to make huge compromises for her, or in some cultures/situations she'll have to accept an inferior ranking/level of priority in her husband's eyes well after his mother (hey, Saudi Arabia), and otherwise have to serve her and keep her happy if she wants to be an accepted and decent wife.

    Is that Islam's fault? Eh. A lot of it is probably culture, but the social dynamics Islam sets up don't help, and they probably contribute to what can kind of be summed up as the idea that women are meant to be wives who bring happiness and ease to her husband above all things, well above being an individual whose needs are just as important as the man's.
  • Polygamy
     Reply #113 - January 29, 2015, 07:12 AM
    I was watching a video on forced marriages and it mentioned that the new brides 'job' is to look after her inlaws and do all the household work, all the mother in law has to do is look after the kids.
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Polygamy
     Reply #114 - January 29, 2015, 11:29 AM
    Are the ideas of muslim puritanism and having more than one wife not an oxymoron?
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Polygamy
     Reply #115 - January 29, 2015, 11:32 AM
    On the poll, does that include the wife having several husbands (and wives?).
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Polygamy
     Reply #116 - January 29, 2015, 01:23 PM
    What about countries where polygamy is a real problem? In Kurdistan it's illegal to have multiple wives, the only way to get married is through the courts, which also perform the nikah. People leave the Kurdistan Regional Government jurisdiction and get married in non-Kurdish areas in Iraq to get around legalities.

    While in the UK I'm in favour of legalising and recognising 'non-traditional' relationships, I really can't support the same thing back home in Iraqi Kurdistan. I'm actually in favour of the ban over there. A guy in our extended family (and my cousin's husband) tried to marry a second wife a few months ago. The backlash from everyone in the family made him reconsider. Everyone totally shunned him and he went from being the centre of our social group to being a social pariah. I was actually proud of my relatives for once.

    Back there, where patriarchy and male entitlement is still so strong, the ban is more than welcome, in my opinion.
  • Polygamy
     Reply #117 - January 29, 2015, 02:51 PM
    Quote from: purelyatheist on January 28, 2015, 10:15 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7HKmu3eMEk


    Did anyone watch this?Huh? It's a video about men that share one wife
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Polygamy
     Reply #118 - January 31, 2015, 04:36 AM
    Quote from: Amoku on January 29, 2015, 01:23 PM
    What about countries where polygamy is a real problem? In Kurdistan it's illegal to have multiple wives, the only way to get married is through the courts, which also perform the nikah. People leave the Kurdistan Regional Government jurisdiction and get married in non-Kurdish areas in Iraq to get around legalities.

    While in the UK I'm in favour of legalising and recognising 'non-traditional' relationships, I really can't support the same thing back home in Iraqi Kurdistan. I'm actually in favour of the ban over there. A guy in our extended family (and my cousin's husband) tried to marry a second wife a few months ago. The backlash from everyone in the family made him reconsider. Everyone totally shunned him and he went from being the centre of our social group to being a social pariah. I was actually proud of my relatives for once.

    Back there, where patriarchy and male entitlement is still so strong, the ban is more than welcome, in my opinion.


    My experience is that mistresses are absurdly common. You just cannot win. Is that the sort of ¨non-traditional¨ relationship that you are referring to? Is there backlash for cheating? Or just proposals? Just curious. My experience is that cheating is tolerated, on the part of the man.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Polygamy
     Reply #119 - January 31, 2015, 04:36 AM
    Quote from: purelyatheist on January 29, 2015, 02:51 PM
    Did anyone watch this?Huh? It's a video about men that share one wife


    I think they do that in some part of Nepal, where land belongs to women.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
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