Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?

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Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
OP - February 13, 2010, 04:02 PM

A common explanation i hear from muslims about ayehsa's marriage to mo at 9 (my family also uses this one) is that she had already had her period and that makes her ready to have sex.

Is this a valid explanation/justification? I think a girl is not ready for sex until she's 16-18?
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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #1 - February 13, 2010, 07:56 PM

bummmmmmmmp!
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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #2 - February 13, 2010, 09:48 PM

Hypothetically speaking, if a girl is born with the ability to have her period. Meaning this hypothetical girl can have period since the age of 1. When is that baby allowed to have sex?

Also hypothetically speaking, a girl gets her period at 19. Does it mean she can not have sex until 19?

A girl having her period or not, has nothing to do with her readiness for sex. A baby who gets her period does not mean she is ready to engage in a sexual relation.

That is beside the fact that Aisha did not have her period before the marriage.

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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #3 - February 13, 2010, 09:57 PM

a 9 years old girl cannot have any signs of femininity whether she had her period or not... a man who can be sexually aroused by such a girl is sick whether he comes from 30,000 years ago or now... just like a man who would find his mother sexually attractive, such a man is sick regardless of the era he lived in.

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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #4 - February 13, 2010, 10:02 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 13, 2010, 09:57 PM
a 9 years old girl cannot have any signs of femininity whether she had her period or not... a man who can be sexually aroused by such a girl is sick whether he comes from 30,000 years ago or now... just like a man who would find his mother sexually attractive, such a man is sick regardless of the era he lived in.

I agree. Mo was a sick bastard.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #5 - February 13, 2010, 10:22 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 13, 2010, 09:57 PM
a 9 years old girl cannot have any signs of femininity whether she had her period or not... a man who can be sexually aroused by such a girl is sick whether he comes from 30,000 years ago or now... just like a man who would find his mother sexually attractive, such a man is sick regardless of the era he lived in.

Then why are you a muslim? Why do you believe in a religion spread by someone who had sex with a 9 year old?
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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #6 - February 13, 2010, 10:25 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 13, 2010, 09:57 PM
a 9 years old girl cannot have any signs of femininity whether she had her period or not... a man who can be sexually aroused by such a girl is sick whether he comes from 30,000 years ago or now... just like a man who would find his mother sexually attractive, such a man is sick regardless of the era he lived in.

This is the second or third time you mention 30 000 years ago. What is your fascination with this date? Is this when the dawn of man arrived? If so, please provide with source.
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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #7 - February 13, 2010, 10:25 PM

Quote from: liberated on February 13, 2010, 10:22 PM
Then why are you a muslim? Why do you believe in a religion spread by someone who had sex with a 9 year old?

Debunker rejects the hadiths..

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #8 - February 13, 2010, 10:43 PM

Quote from: BlackDog on February 13, 2010, 10:25 PM
This is the second or third time you mention 30 000 years ago. What is your fascination with this date? Is this when the dawn of man arrived? If so, please provide with source.

I heard it on a programme on Discovery Channel

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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #9 - February 13, 2010, 10:45 PM

Quote from: Iblis on February 13, 2010, 10:25 PM
Debunker rejects the hadiths..

I don't reject Hadith... the easiest way to explain my position on Hadith is to say that I take a similar stance on Hadith like that of the Mutazilites... (they lived in the 8th-9th century).

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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #10 - February 13, 2010, 10:59 PM

So you reject the multiple hadiths from multiple sources describing Mo had sex with her when she was 9?
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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #11 - February 13, 2010, 11:07 PM

Aicha was the ONLY one who reported her age at marriage.... no one corroborated her story... this Hadith is NOT Mutawatir..

I only fully accept Mutawatir Hadith PLUS I don't mind other Hadiths, if they sounded reasonable.

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The first type is diffusely recurrent (mutawatir) reports ? those that have come down to later generations through a large number of chains of narration, involving diverse transmitters such that it is virtually impossible that all these people, living in different localities and espousing (at times radically) different views, would come together, fabricate the exact same lie and attribute it to the Prophet of Islam or any other authority. A large number of narrators is not a sufficient criterion for authenticating a report because people belonging to some sect or party may have an interest in fabricating reports that promote their agendas. The power of this mode of transmission, tawatur, rests on both the number and diversity of narrators at each stage of transmission. On the other hand, the authenticity of the second type of reports, those which do not meet the criteria for tawatur, is considered speculative.

MANY + DIVERSE narrators at EACH stage of narration makes a Hadith Mutawatir.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu'tazili

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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #12 - February 13, 2010, 11:23 PM

What about the verse 65:4 in quran which sanctions child marriage?
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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #13 - February 13, 2010, 11:26 PM

Also, what's your explanation for all the other wives of mohammed, he has 11 while muslim men are allowed to have only 4?
Especially the Saffiyah girl whose father and husband were tortured and then mohammed married her.

I don't get why you're a muslim dude, you sound too smart for this shit.
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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #14 - February 13, 2010, 11:33 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 13, 2010, 10:43 PM
I heard it on a programme on DiscoveryChannel

I thought man came around 250,000 yrs ago?

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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #15 - February 13, 2010, 11:41 PM

Quote from: liberated on February 13, 2010, 11:23 PM
What about the verse 65:4 in quran which sanctions child marriage?

I discussed it in detail here...
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=8240.msg206742#msg206742

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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #16 - February 13, 2010, 11:45 PM

Quote from: liberated on February 13, 2010, 11:26 PM
Also, what's your explanation for all the other wives of mohammed, he has 11 while muslim men are allowed to have only 4?
Especially the Saffiyah girl whose father and husband were tortured and then mohammed married her.

I don't get why you're a muslim dude, you sound too smart for this shit.

My understanding he had 9 wives, but anyway, why was he allowed 9 while Muslims only 4? I don't know.

As for Saffiyyah her story is in Hadith... and there's plenty of dubious details in those Hadith (for example, Khaibar was NOT China... it was in Medina's backyard... why did they have to set camp at Khaibar? etc, etc)...

Torturing her husband is not even in Hadith (it's in Ibn Ishaq's history bok, if I'm not mistaken)..

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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #17 - February 14, 2010, 12:39 AM

Where can I find mutawatir hadiths? No luck on Google for me at least.
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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #18 - February 14, 2010, 12:59 AM

Here's a link to Mutawatir Hadith in Bukhari's collection (in Arabic:)

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Fhares/Fhares.asp?Doc=&Tag=6

It turns out, 18% of Bukhari's collection is Mutawatir Hadith.

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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #19 - February 14, 2010, 01:08 AM

18% Well I never, I thought it would be far less than that!

NB: The age of Aisha is muttawatir afaik

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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #20 - February 14, 2010, 01:10 AM

Quote from: BlackDog on February 14, 2010, 12:39 AM
Where can I find mutawatir hadiths? No luck on Google for me at least.

see this http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=6596.16

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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #21 - February 14, 2010, 01:21 AM

Quote from: IsLame on February 14, 2010, 01:10 AM
see this http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=6596.16

The project never came to light. We need to do it. We need the mutawatir hadiths.
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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #22 - February 14, 2010, 01:37 AM

Quote from: IsLame on February 14, 2010, 01:08 AM
18% Well I never, I thought it would be far less than that!

NB: The age of Aisha is muttawatir afaik

This is Bukhari's book... my guess if you take all the collections togeather the percentage would go down to 10%.

Aicha's age was only reported by her... that's only one narrator at the first stage of narration.

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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #23 - February 14, 2010, 01:38 AM

So she lied?
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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #24 - February 14, 2010, 01:46 AM

well, since I'm not a Shia, I can't use this word exactly ... I discussed this with the Tailor before, she could have grossly exagerrated her age to seem younger than the other wives, she could have done this out of jealousy... since it's reported that ~2 of his wives, whom he married years after he married Aicha were around 17... she had to make herself young enough at the age of marriage so that at least she can't be older than those 2 wives...

Anyway, there are two more possibilities I discussed with the Tailor.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4640.msg211087#msg211087

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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #25 - February 14, 2010, 02:02 AM

Quote from: debunker on February 14, 2010, 01:46 AM
well, since I'm not a Shia, I can't use this word exactly ... I discussed this with the Tailor before, she could have grossly exagerrated her age to seem younger than the other wives, she could have done this out of jealousy... since it's reported that ~2 of his wives, whom he married years after he married Aicha were around 17... she had to make herself young enough at the age of marriage so that at least she can't be older than those 2 wives...

Anyway, there are two more possibilities I discussed with the Tailor.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=4640.msg211087#msg211087

Sure. But you have no proof of this. And not only are you claiming she was lying but that she was lying out of jealousy. Pray do tell, how do this reflect on the Prophet? And his choice of Aisha as his favorite wife?
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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #26 - February 14, 2010, 02:16 AM

Even if she was a disbeliever, and I'm not saying she was, that still doesn't reflect badly on the prophet... the wife of Nuh and the wife of Lut were even disbelievers and that didn't reflect badly on them.

PS. BTW, I should add something about Mutawatir:

From among Sahih Hadith there is:

1- Ahad
2- Mashhour
3- Mutawatir

Some Muslims consider Mashhour to be Mutawatir... for example, the Aicha Hadith is Mashhour because at one of the stages (the first stage in this case) there's only one narrator... but like I said, some Muslims consider Mashhour to be Mutawatir...

Mutazilites definition of Mutawatir is at EACH stage there mustbe MANY & DIVERSE number of narrators... so applying this standard, Aicha Hadith is NOT Mutawatir.. it's Mashhour.

So when you see a compiled list of Mutawatir Hadith, you have to know if the compiler considers Mashhour to be Mutawatir or not... As for the list I included above, by checking randomly I just saw one Hadith which had only one narrator at the first stage... so this list I provided mixes both Mashhour and Mutawatir.

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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #27 - February 14, 2010, 02:52 AM

@Debunker, you know all of these problems with Islam, the prophet married had 11 wives when muslims can have only 4, he was 60 while most of his wives were quite young, there are numerous scientific errors and other contradictions in the quran, evolution proves the adam/eve story to be false, so why do you still believe in islam knowing all of these things? Seriously man, just be a theist if you want to believe in god, islam is such a bad choice for a religion which has obviously so many things wrong with it.

By the way the Ibn Ishaq guy was mohammed's biographer, most of the info about mohammed's life comes from him.
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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #28 - February 14, 2010, 09:15 AM

Quote from: BlackDog on February 14, 2010, 02:02 AM
Sure. But you have no proof of this. And not only are you claiming she was lying but that she was lying out of jealousy. Pray do tell, how do this reflect on the Prophet? And his choice of Aisha as his favorite wife?

This!

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Re: Did ayesha have her period when Mo married her?
Reply #29 - February 14, 2010, 10:27 AM

Quote from: IsLame on February 14, 2010, 09:15 AM
This!

It's funny how he laid the blame on Aisha and not that the fact that having 9 wives might seriously fuck things up. I mean that's a harem. Even Hugh Hefner only kept 4 girlfriends.
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