FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]

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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #30 - February 18, 2010, 03:48 PM

Quote from: Hassan on February 18, 2010, 03:10 PM

And this is the fundamental difference between FFI and CoEM forums.

FFI's only interest in ex-Muslims is to use them as a blunt instrument to bash Islam with. That is why they attract so many Christian fundamentalists, racists, necons and every other flavour of bigot who hates Muslims and Islam rather than genuine ex-Muslims. (After all what sort of an ex-Muslim wants to be used by bigoted groups to add to the irrational hatred directed towards their own families?)

CoEM has more to it than simply airing our criticisms of Islam - it is about trying to offer support, and understanding and a place to just finally meet others who have gone through - or are going through what they are and get some help and advice. That stuff that FFI so arrogantly dismisses as "chit-chat" is a very important part of helping each other overcome the baggage Islam has left us with.

But it's OK - I know FFI (the "Grassroots Ex-Muslim Movement!" ) actually doesn't care about the issues real Ex-Muslims face. FFI's only interest in Ex-Muslims is to use them to further whatever agenda they have (depending on the particular FFI member that will range from a right-wing conservative Christian agenda to just outright racism and bigotry towards 'ragheads')

+1

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #31 - February 18, 2010, 03:50 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 18, 2010, 03:33 PM
@ Islame

Sky is an atheist (ex-Hindu), yezve is an atheist and tries to keep his former faith a mystery thinking he's too important.

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5425#p89285

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5425#p89288

About FFI generally I would say that Ali is what he says he is - an Iranian ex-Muslim who was never religious, but most of his supporters were never Muslims. I would say that they are generally from that broad band of Neocons (including many atheists) and right-wing Christian fundamentalists and right-wing or bigoted European groups along with some conservative right-wing support from Israelis - FFI often shows support for Israel and some long time members are from there (e.g yglag, Young Reservist and... I'm guessing...yeezevee...). I suspect Ali Sina got a lot of support and help from right-wing Christians and Necon types which is why he allows them to run free there - plus Ali is clearly a nutcase when it comes to Obama and Taqiyya etc... - typical necon/Christian Fundie hobby horses.)
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #32 - February 18, 2010, 03:55 PM

Ali Sina's Obama-birther nonsense really makes me suspicious. Why on earth would any genuine ex-muslim who says he's from Iran become so passionat about an issue that is deeply rooted in white american right-wing culture? The whole Obama/Birther thing is so rooted in american racism that it's hard to believe any actual immigrant from the middle east (with a muslim name I presume) would get so involved in such a topic.

I have yet to meet in real life or on-line a single person who takes the Obama-birther stuff seriously who isn't a white Republican Christian.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #33 - February 18, 2010, 04:00 PM

Quote from: Hassan on February 18, 2010, 03:50 PM

About FFI generally I would say that Ali is what he says he is - an Iranian ex-Muslim who was never religious, but most of his supporters were never Muslims. I would say that they are generally from that broad band of Neocons (including many atheists) and right-wing Christian fundamentalists and right-wing or bigoted European groups along with some conservative right-wing support from Israelis - FFI often shows support for Israel and some long time members are from there (e.g yglag, Young Reservist and... I'm guessing...yeezevee...). I suspect Ali Sina got a lot of support and help from right-wing Christians and Necon types which is why he allows them to run free there - plus Ali is clearly a nutcase when it comes to Obama and Taqiyya etc... - typical necon/Christian Fundie hobby horses.)

On the bigotted European groups issue, can you blame them, Hassan? I mean Muslims are indeed trying to fuck with Europe... I honestly can't blame Europeans for hating Muslims... but when it comes to fucking neocons and rabid missionaries, that's when I can't tolerate their stinky words against Muslims.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #34 - February 18, 2010, 04:01 PM

Quote from: Iblis on February 18, 2010, 03:55 PM
Ali Sina's Obama-birther nonsense really makes me suspicious. Why on earth would any genuine ex-muslim who says he's from Iran become so passionat about an issue that is deeply rooted in white american right-wing culture? The whole Obama/Birther thing is so rooted in american racism that it's hard to believe any actual immigrant from the middle east (with a muslim name I presume) would get so involved in such a topic.

I have yet to meet in real life or on-line a single person who takes the Obama-birther stuff seriously who isn't a white Republican Christian.

Yes, but it's still possible - I once heard an interview with Ali aired on a right-wing Neocon/Christian fundie radio station and he sounded like a Persian.

But of course it's possible that was a fake and he is a composite and concoction of some Neocon who wanted to kick-start an Ex-Muslim movement. But having had many interactions with him going back BEFORE FFI I would say he is exactly who he says he is - he's just a bit of a nutter that's all lol
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #35 - February 18, 2010, 04:03 PM

@ Iblis

Check out Wafa Sultan, like Sina she's serving neocons.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #36 - February 18, 2010, 04:04 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 18, 2010, 04:00 PM
On the bigotted European groups issue, can you blame them, Hassan? I mean Muslims are indeed trying to fuck with Europe... I honestly can't blame Europeans for hating Muslims... but when it comes to fucking neocons and rabid missionaries, that's when I can't tolerate their stinky words against Muslims.

True say, Debunker! That's what makes me so angry at the idiots amongst the Muslim communities in Europe because they are the ones bringing on this backlash - and it is people like my two daughters and two sons who will suffer as a result - so yes - I feel a very personal anger at them!
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #37 - February 18, 2010, 04:04 PM

Quote from: Hassan on February 18, 2010, 04:01 PM
Yes, but it's still possible - I once heard an interview with Ali aired on a right-wing Neocon/Christian fundie radio station and he sounded like a Persian.

But of course it's possible that was a fake and he is a composite and concoction of some Neocon who wanted to kick-start an Ex-Muslim movement. But having had many interactions with him going back BEFORE FFI I would say he is exactly who he says he is - he's just a bit of a nutter that's all lol

LOL, That'd be funny if he was some sock puppet character of the neocons. But I guess we're descending into a bit of conspiracy theorizing ourselves. Reality is the simple answer is probably the correct one here. He might just be a really really nutty iranian. A victim of Islam, now the mental damage and PTSD Islam is inflicted on Ali Sina is complete.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #38 - February 18, 2010, 04:05 PM

I don't think it's crazy.

Osama.

Obama

One letter is the difference. You think that's coincidence? Fuck no!

Ask yourself what does this B stand for?

Barack (muslim name? check) Hussein (muslim name? duh!!) ob(s)ama.

You guessed it! The word all muslims think of when they are traveling. Bomb!

There I have just proven this theory is not crazy. Now I just need to find the hidden transmission from invading reptile aliens in this week's TV Guide.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #39 - February 18, 2010, 04:08 PM

Quote from: BlackDog on February 18, 2010, 04:05 PM
I don't think it's crazy.

Osama.

Obama

One letter is the difference. You think that's coincidence? Fuck no!

Ask yourself what does this B stand for?

Barack (muslim name? check) Hussein (muslim name? duh!!) ob(s)ama.

You guessed it! The word all muslims think of when they are traveling. Bomb!

There I have just proven this theory is not crazy. Now I just need to find the hidden transmission from invading reptile aliens in this week's TV Guide.

The scary thing, BD is that there are people who would agree with what you just said!
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #40 - February 18, 2010, 04:08 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 18, 2010, 04:03 PM
@ Iblis

Check out Wafa Sultan, like Sina she's serving neocons.

Ali Sina and Wafa Sultan are great examples of what Islam can do to people. It's obvious that they suffer from PTSD inflicted by Islam and it has manifested itself in a sort of massive backlash of hate against anything remotely Muslim. And who can blame them? Muslims deal with each other in cruel and evil ways, its only natural that the response and backlash against Islam and Muslims can often be extreme.

I might not agree with the methodology and many views of Ali Sina or Wafa Sultan but I don't really blame them at the end of the day. Islam and Muslims are squarely to blame, these types didn't rise out of a vacuum. They are victims of Islam.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #41 - February 18, 2010, 04:09 PM

Quote from: Hassan on February 18, 2010, 03:50 PM

...along with some conservative right-wing support from Israelis - FFI often shows support for Israel and some long time members are from there (e.g yglag, Young Reservist and... I'm guessing...yeezevee...).

Zaephon was a genuine Israel supporter, he was a genuine ex Muslim & he is anything but right wing, & certainly no racist.

A website like FFI, or for that matter plenty of very popular websites dealing with Islam draw its members, certainly not from any neo con right wings, but from a very broad base consisting of many nations, races, political orientations & religions-pretty much everywhere Islam has touched, people disliking Islam have arisen. A fair perusal of any such websites show people from many nations, who're all concerned with Islamic extremism. I can't imagine a forum critical of any other world religion being so popular with so many diverse people.

Perhaps people-including ex Muslims need to ask themselves what is it about Islam which raises the ire of so many people who come in contact with it. They'd sense then the fears & skepticism about Islam are very real, very much something to be concerned about.

No matter what one's political orientation, no one likes being bombed to death or being an amputee confined to a wheelchair due to a jihadi terrorist attack. Most supporters of gender equality would find a niqab or genital mutilation offensive, even many left wingers would find Islamic prejudices against gays, pre marital sex etc offensive.

Quote from: Hassan on February 18, 2010, 04:04 PM
and it is people like my two daughters and two sons who will suffer as a result - so yes - I feel a very personal anger at them!

Non Muslims of diverse views are just as worried about their sons & daughters being killed or maimed in an Islamist attack in London, on a tour of Bali, or in their schools in Beslan.

Can you in all honesty blame them for their "irrational" fears given that plenty of such attacks have happened, & many more are foiled on an almost daily basis?

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #42 - February 18, 2010, 04:10 PM

Quote from: Hassan on February 18, 2010, 04:08 PM
The scary thing, BD is that there are people who would agree with what you just said!

crazy people if you believe this, it was just a joke*

*not really, you know I am the conduit. send pics of your women to bigboy69_conduit@hotmail.com
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #43 - February 18, 2010, 04:11 PM

Quote from: Hassan on February 18, 2010, 04:04 PM
True say, Debunker! That's what makes me so angry at the idiots amongst the Muslim communities in Europe because they are the ones bringing on this backlash - and it is people like my two daughters and two sons who will suffer as a result - so yes - I feel a very personal anger at them!

And the Muslim communities in Europe also share the blame... I'm not talking about total nuts like Choudary, here... Muslims are ineed trying to Islamize Europe! And they are very ungrateful towards their hosts... honerstly, even Muslims here in the US irritate the hell out of me, but at least, so far, it seems Muslims in the US aren't trying to play any dirty games.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #44 - February 18, 2010, 04:12 PM

Quote from: Rashna on February 18, 2010, 04:09 PM
he was a genuine ex Muslim

Thanks Rashna. I am happy he has the Your Seal of Approval "100% Kafir". But seeing how you are happy to claim you have never been muslim, and thus, ex-muslim, are you really in position to judge? What more can one do in your eyes to get your seal of haram? Piss on the Quran? Or is the secret to piss on muslims? With them holding on to the Quran? Maybe put them on fire and then piss on them?
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #45 - February 18, 2010, 04:13 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 18, 2010, 04:11 PM
so far, it seems Muslims in the US aren't trying to play any dirty games.

Some of them are, like the guys in CAIR and CAIR-Can. But most are just too professional and career-oriented to be involved in any ghettoization of America or Canada.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #46 - February 18, 2010, 04:13 PM

Quote from: BlackDog on February 18, 2010, 04:12 PM
Thanks Rashna. I am happy he has the Your Seal of Approval "100% Kafir". But seeing how you are happy to claim you have never been muslim, and thus, ex-muslim, are you really in position to judge? What more can one do in your eyes to get your seal of haram? Piss on the Quran?

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #47 - February 18, 2010, 04:14 PM

Quote from: Iblis on February 18, 2010, 04:08 PM

Ali Sina and Wafa Sultan are great examples of what Islam can do to people. It's obvious that they suffer from PTSD inflicted by Islam and it has manifested itself in a sort of massive backlash of hate against anything remotely Muslim. And who can blame them? Muslims deal with each other in cruel and evil ways, its only natural that the response and backlash against Islam and Muslims can often be extreme.

I might not agree with the methodology and many views of Ali Sina or Wafa Sultan but I don't really blame them at the end of the day. Islam and Muslims are squarely to blame, these types didn't rise out of a vacuum. They are victims of Islam.

I don't think it's PSTD... when Sina says Muslims should be ruled by the West in their own lands with an iron fist, and Sultan says they should be crushed, they're just serving their neocon masters.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #48 - February 18, 2010, 04:15 PM

I liked Zaephon. Sure he was a bit on the extreme end, but his posts reveal a fairly logical and robust individual.

Though , I don't get how anyone can become "pro-Israel" after becoming ex-Muslim. I've become much more sympathetic towards Israel perhaps. But pro-Isreal? That's just trading one set of tribal idiocy for another.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #49 - February 18, 2010, 04:17 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 18, 2010, 04:11 PM
And the Muslim communities in Europe also share the blame... I'm not talking about total nuts like Choudary, here... Muslims are ineed trying to Islamize Europe! And they are very ungrateful towards their hosts... honerstly, even Muslims here in the US irritate the hell out of me, but at least, so far, it seems Muslims in the US aren't trying to play any dirty games.

Yep - you are quite right and even if they are not in favour of any sort of militant action they at the very least hold dear the belief that Islam will indeed 'dominate the world' Though this is no different from the hopes and aspirations of many religious groups or even political groups. So to be fair it doesn't mean they have brought on this backlash.

It is those who demand what they don't give - who take and don't give to the society that hosts them - those who wish to remain apart and separate yet want all it's benefits that really piss me off!
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #50 - February 18, 2010, 04:18 PM

Quote from: Iblis on February 18, 2010, 04:13 PM
Some of them are, like the guys in CAIR and CAIR-Can. But most are just too professional and career-oriented to be involved in any ghettoization of America or Canada.

Brilliant Iblis! Indeed, why do Muslims try to turn the West into a shithole? If they like to live in shitholes they can go back to where they came from.. I don't get it..

I have been to Dearborn, MI.. have you ever seen it? If you go to the Lebanese parts it's like part of southern Beirut.. if you go to Yemeni parts, it's like being in Yemen... what the fuck? If they like their shit so much why even move to the US?!!

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #51 - February 18, 2010, 04:18 PM

Quote from: Iblis on February 18, 2010, 04:15 PM
I liked Zaephon.

I liked Zaephon very much and miss him.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #52 - February 18, 2010, 04:20 PM

Quote from: BlackDog on February 18, 2010, 04:12 PM
Thanks Rashna. I am happy he has the Your Seal of Approval "100% Kafir". But seeing how you are happy to claim you have never been muslim, and thus, ex-muslim, are you really in position to judge? What more can one do in your eyes to get your seal of haram? Piss on the Quran? Or is the secret to piss on muslims? With them holding on to the Quran? Maybe put them on fire and then piss on them?

I was just commenting on the mentality that no genuine ex Muslim can be supportive of Israel.

Its not about "my seal of approval" its about the fact that Zaephon was here for many years, I like many others have seen his pics.

So I was commenting that there are ex Muslims who support Israel.

I don't doubt that you're all ex Muslims, just saying that all ex Muslims do not hold identical views.

Also its not about me judging, Hass & others know Zaephon was an ex Muslim & a self professed Zionist crusader.

World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #53 - February 18, 2010, 04:20 PM

Quote from: Iblis on February 18, 2010, 04:15 PM

Though , I don't get how anyone can become "pro-Israel" after becoming ex-Muslim. I've become much more sympathetic towards Israel perhaps. But pro-Isreal? That's just trading one set of tribal idiocy for another.

Exactly I am more willing to listen to the Israeli side now. And not fear me having to take sides. But I am not going to plunge into one cess-pit of hate and prejudice because I have apostatized.

I have always tried to have humanistic thoughts and beliefs. And adhere to them. Be a civilized gentleman. Its only that Islam forces you to remain loyal. Without Islam I can still be the same person just more free. I also tried to support different groups before. And this is why I still support Muslims. I do not agree with the religion, but I will damned before I condemn an entire people. I refused to do so as a muslim and I refuse to do so now. As a mormon.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #54 - February 18, 2010, 04:21 PM

Quote from: Hassan on February 18, 2010, 04:18 PM
I liked Zaephon very much and miss him.

Me too. Can't somebody get him back. I never had a chance to speak with the dude.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #55 - February 18, 2010, 04:22 PM

Peru is the only one in contact with him..

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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #56 - February 18, 2010, 04:25 PM

Quote from: Hassan on February 18, 2010, 04:17 PM
Yep - you are quite right and even if they are not in favour of any sort of militant action they at the very least hold dear the belief that Islam will indeed 'dominate the world' Though this is no different from the hopes and aspirations of many religious groups or even political groups. So to be fair it doesn't mean they have brought on this backlash.

It is those who demand what they don't give - who take and don't give to the society that hosts them - those who wish to remain apart and separate yet want all it's benefits that really piss me off!

And they do it with such smugness, it baffles me!

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #57 - February 18, 2010, 04:26 PM

Quote from: debunker on February 18, 2010, 04:18 PM
Brilliant Iblis! Indeed, why do Muslims try to turn the West into a shithole? If they like to live in shitholes they can go back to where they came from.. I don't get it..

I have been to Dearborn, MI.. have you ever seen it? If you go to the Lebanese parts it's like part of southern Beirut.. if you go to Yemeni parts, it's like being in Yemen... what the fuck? If they like their shit so much why even move to the US?!!

I don't know, but it pisses me off a lot. I know it sounds bigoted... but they should have some laws against Muslims congregating in urban area in too large numbers. LOL

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #58 - February 18, 2010, 04:29 PM

Quote from: BlackDog on February 18, 2010, 04:20 PM
Exactly I am more willing to listen to the Israeli side now. And not fear me having to take sides. But I am not going to plunge into one cess-pit of hate and prejudice because I have apostatized.

I have always tried to have humanistic thoughts and beliefs. And adhere to them. Be a civilized gentleman. Its only that Islam forces you to remain loyal. Without Islam I can still be the same person just more free. I also tried to support different groups before. And this is why I still support Muslims. I do not agree with the religion, but I will damned before I condemn an entire people. I refused to do so as a muslim and I refuse to do so now. As a mormon.

+1

lol Mormon f@g

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: FFI vs. COEM [Split: Poster of the month!]
Reply #59 - February 18, 2010, 04:29 PM

Quote
I don't know, but it pisses me off a lot. I know it sounds bigoted... but they should have some laws against Muslims congregating in urban area in too large numbers. LOL

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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