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 Topic: Judge says Sikh students should be allowed to carry daggers

 (Read 7954 times)
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  • Re: Judge says Sikh students should be allowed to carry daggers
     Reply #30 - February 19, 2010, 06:18 PM

    Oh bullshit. I don't know how it works in Malta, but in the US the Vietnamese, Cambodians, Laotians, Chinese, Mexicans, Salvadorans, Brazilians, Haitians, Nigerians, Congolese, Liberians, Eritreans-- the vast majority of all of them bust ass. Maybe people come to Malta to sit on their asses, but people come to this country to make money.


    Actually many weren't intending to come here.  They usually only get to know that we exist after they are towed in by our patrol boats.  Many of them originally want to go to France and Uk, to get exploited over there, but the boats they travel in are not worthy to say the least and they end up sinking in our territorial waters.  That is why we are obliged by law to save them and take them to our country.  No one wants them and we end up getting used as a dumping ground.  Before Maroni negotiated with Ghaddafi, the traffickers were even using these laws to their own advantage towing illegals on rickety boats to our waters and leaving them there for us to pick them up, because we have to and trying to make the country into a gateway to the EU.  

    Well, if they have an asylum case pending then their status isn't exactly that of an "illegal immigrant", now is it?


    The thing is that every fecker that comes here can apply for asylum and say that they are seeking it.  Even you can.  Now since these people come without passports, separating the genuine cases from the bogus ones (the majority) is a long and tedious process.  And during this time the illegals are here and being provided for by our finances.

    BULL-FUCKING-SHIT. And this is a case where I will not defer to your opinions over what should happen in your own country, because labor unions exist to represent workers NOT workers of a certain nationality. Labor unions have a moral obligation to represent any worker within their jurisdiction, no matter where they came from or how they got there.


    No not bull-fucking-shit.  I am not talking about nationality here, i am talking about ILLEGALITY.  I specifically stated that non local workers that come here LEGALLY, through the right channels and accepted are entitled to the same rights as locals.  People who break the law are not, irrelevant of where they come from.

    We'll see if you still feel that way when you're approaching retirement age and the government tells you you have to work another 10 years because there isn't enough pension money to cover you.


    I was never brought up with the mentality that working was a curse.  My grandfather resented having to stop working when he had to retire.  He still kept himself active till he had to be hospitalised because of an accident that happened to him while he was working (he was 69 when it happened).  He now doesn't have to endure being bed ridden anymore as he died a few years after it happened.  I hope to follow his example

    What I'm saying is that if capital has full mobility (which, with the proliferation of free-trade agreements, is increasingly becoming the case all over the world), then labor should have full mobility too.


    What about the locals who benefit from that capital?  They weren't benefiting from it when it wasn't in their country  Why should people remain chained to only a few types of income?  Why shouldn't we be trained in the arts of entrepreneurship?  I believe in that quite a lot.  It would stop economies from having to depend on certain services and companies.
     

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Judge says Sikh students should be allowed to carry daggers
     Reply #31 - February 19, 2010, 06:30 PM

    No not bull-fucking-shit.  I am not talking about nationality here, i am talking about ILLEGALITY.  I specifically stated that non local workers that come here LEGALLY, through the right channels and accepted are entitled to the same rights as locals.  People who break the law are not, irrelevant of where they come from.


    You know what? You're absolutely correct. I'm going to encourage my union to purge all law-breakers-- anyone who's ever smoked a joint, turned without signaling, exceeded the speed limit, laid a bet with a bookie, shoplifted as a kid, or committed any crime whatsoever. Sure, we'll probably have fewer than 100 members after that, but at least we'll have done the morally upstanding thing.

    As far as your "rights" talk is concerned, I only recognize natural rights, and every worker has the natural right to join a labor union and collectively bargain, regardless of what the law says. The law is only as legitimate as it respects people's natural rights.

    fuck you
  • Re: Judge says Sikh students should be allowed to carry daggers
     Reply #32 - February 19, 2010, 06:42 PM

    You know what? You're absolutely correct. I'm going to encourage my union to purge all law-breakers-- anyone who's ever smoked a joint, turned without signaling, exceeded the speed limit, laid a bet with a bookie, shoplifted as a kid, or committed any crime whatsoever. Sure, we'll probably have fewer than 100 members after that, but at least we'll have done the morally upstanding thing.

    As far as your "rights" talk is concerned, I only recognize natural rights, and every worker has the natural right to join a labor union and collectively bargain, regardless of what the law says. The law is only as legitimate as it respects people's natural rights.


    Don't be fucking ridiculous.  There is a very good reason why we as a country cannot simply accept anyone that turns up, we cannot sustain it.  That is why we have immigration laws and a strict policy, to protect us.  If they want to work here then its only fair that they apply through the right channels and legally like other non nationals do.  Why should these people be exempted from this?

    You might have a problem with me, but I do not appreciate people turning up unannounced and requiring support when I myself am also struggling in quite a lot of ways.  I would agree that illegals should be protected from exploitation and abuse but I will not accept that they are given the same status as a migrant who has made an effort to go through all the legal processes and come here the proper way.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Judge says Sikh students should be allowed to carry daggers
     Reply #33 - February 19, 2010, 06:49 PM

    It's not a matter of policy. You seem to be of the opinion that the government or the people at large should get to determine who labor unions accept or represent, in other words you wish to restrict the union's right of free association due to your own beliefs on illegal immigration. I disagree.

    It is a labor union's moral obligation to represent workers within their jurisdiction, regardless of immigration status, bottom line. I could give a fuck less what your opinions are on illegal immigration to Malta are in relation to this issue. It's a universal principle, and if unions don't abide by it, or at least try to abide by it, then they are failing in their core mission and ethical obligations to the working class.

    fuck you
  • Re: Judge says Sikh students should be allowed to carry daggers
     Reply #34 - February 19, 2010, 07:20 PM

    Alright I see your point.. But then aren't you, by that policy, giving legitimacy to people who are breaking laws that are indirectly also protecting the local working class population?  And not to mention that by giving recognition in this area you would also be creating a pull factor and thereby creating more opportunities for human traffickers and also endangering the lives of others attempting to come here illegally (crossing the Med is not as safe as you might think it is, especially if its in a small, overcrowded fishing boat that is not even suitable to be floating in a swimming pool).  

    And then what's to say that these illegal workers will not also form mini factions within the unions and subvert it from its original purpose to serve their own interests at the expense of other workers, or cause a lot of internal problems within it?

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Judge says Sikh students should be allowed to carry daggers
     Reply #35 - February 19, 2010, 07:51 PM

    But then aren't you, by that policy, giving legitimacy to people who are breaking laws that are indirectly also protecting the local working class population?


    No. We have ex-cons in our union. Murderers, thieves, etc. What they did in the past is not our concern. They are workers in our jurisdiction then we bring them under the banner of our union. We are not in the business of vetting the background of every member. And immigrating illegally isn't even a felony-- at least here it ain't-- nor does it directly and immediately infringe on the rights of another person.

    Quote
    And not to mention that by giving recognition in this area you would also be creating a pull factor and thereby creating more opportunities for human traffickers and also endangering the lives of others attempting to come here illegally (crossing the Med is not as safe as you might think it is, especially if its in a small, overcrowded fishing boat that is not even suitable to be floating in a swimming pool).

     

    The pull's there anyways. The wages to be earned in the US or the EU so exceed those in the countries they are coming from that it's not gonna make a huge difference. If you come from a country where jobs are very scarce and the average wage is 5 dollars a day, there's an incentive to emigrate whether you can make 10 bucks an hour in your new home without a union contract and the other benefits/protections it provides, or 15 bucks an hour with a union contract.

    Here's what does change if such immigrants join labor unions en masse-- employers no longer have an incentive to hire illegal immigrants, nor do these immigrants depress wages for the native workforce. If anything, it would likely reduce illegal immigration (in the US at least), as fewer employers will be willing to take legal risk of hiring an undocumented immigrant without the financial incentive for doing so-- and fewer jobs for illegal immigrants means fewer people will risk their necks coming across the border for work.

    Quote
    And then what's to say that these illegal workers will not also form mini factions within the unions and subvert it from its original purpose to serve their own interests at the expense of other workers, or cause a lot of internal problems within it?


     Cheesy You're not too familiar with the internal workings of labor unions are you? Competing self-interested factions exist within the unions no matter what, along ethnic, political/ideological, regional, even religious, or just immediate material self-interest lines. Hell, I've seen major factions form and start battles within unions based solely on old, petty, childish vendettas. It sucks, but that's life.

    In my experience, however, immigrants who are in the union (legal or otherwise) tend to be the most committed to rank-and-file control and militancy, whereas native union members are more likely to be scared of taking militant action, and more apt to view the union as a service they pay for rather than an organization they control-- so, in my personal experience, the immigrants are a net positive for the union rather than a negative.

    The history of the American labor movement would tend to bear out my opinions on this too. In the mid to late 1800s it was the Irish and German immigrants building the unions and taking militant action, in the early to mid 1900s it was the Italians and Eastern Europeans. And recently the biggest and boldest labor actions in America have been led by Mexicans and Latinos.

    fuck you
  • Re: Judge says Sikh students should be allowed to carry daggers
     Reply #36 - February 26, 2010, 04:49 PM

    Britain’s first Asian judge: ‘Kirpans should be allowed in schools’

    http://www.emgonline.co.uk/news.php?news=8958

    "When one bright intellect meets another bright intellect, the light increases and the Way becomes clear -- Rumi
  • Re: Judge says Sikh students should be allowed to carry daggers
     Reply #37 - February 26, 2010, 05:20 PM

    Rashna could you tell us were these illegal immigrant bengalis settle?

    Also i never knew Zoroastrian existed in south east asia  Tongue
  • Re: Judge says Sikh students should be allowed to carry daggers
     Reply #38 - February 27, 2010, 01:48 PM

    They mostly settle in neibouring assam and west bengal.

    "When one bright intellect meets another bright intellect, the light increases and the Way becomes clear -- Rumi
  • Re: Judge says Sikh students should be allowed to carry daggers
     Reply #39 - February 27, 2010, 02:02 PM

    They mostly settle in neibouring assam and west bengal.

     wacko

    lol
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