Now let me go and digest Mughal's next point.,
As for your question about reformation of islam or muslims, you also raised the other question that why reform islam and muslims if islam and muslims can accommodate freedom, secularism, democracy and human rights and why bother with separation of religion and state?
I do not think that islam can accommodate freedom, secularism , democracy and human rights. Not only that there is no compatibility between islamic scriptural texts and freedom, secularism, democracy and human rights but also there is no history of such a thing that it ever happened. In fact if there was ever a chance for such a coexistence to become an example of the prophet, it was when muhammad came to madina and started living with people of other religions on equal footing ie political power sharing. However, rather than helping things to continue that way, he worked to eliminate political opposition, so much so that all nonmuslims were expelled from the whole of arabia or were killed with a short period of time. This only shows that muhammad just tricked everyone and this is what muslims are doing if you look at their behaviour closely.
there are two issues in your response above dear Mughal.
1). Present problems of Muslim folks with Islam who are living in democratic countries and
CAN NOT accommodate freedom, secularism , democracy and human rights. This is because there is incompatibility between Islamic scriptural texts and freedom, secularism, democracy and human rights. And you are saying it BLUNTLY.
Don't you think such fools as that Londonsthan Choudary are rare specimen ?? and Muslim GUYS ARE participating in Elections aren't they .. for e.g
http://www.altmuslim.com/a/a/a/3459 http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/paper/index.php?article=2159let me also take an example of Senegal. off course it is a tiny country in Africa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senegal , If I remember right it has over 90% Muslim population and repeatedly elected - Leopold Senghor, a Roman Catholic, as its President.
So if those guys can do in that tiny country in Africa why not in other places from Egypt to Indonesia? Or do you think these Muslim folk in Senegal are NOT Muslims but they have their own rules of Islam?
The 2nd problem is You going back to Muhammad's time taking his warfare as an example to modern day Muslims., I have a serous problem with History Islam., I think it is complete nonsense none were brave enough to question and rewrite in Islamic countries including Indian subcontinent., The blame goes to Both Muslim and non-Muslim Historians.
It is clear hadith is absolute rubbish and there are meaningless verse in Quran + Silly rules., But when you look at 1st 10 years Muhammad's time until Khadija was alive, there were hardly any problem in Mecca.,
So some people are seriously thinking there were two independent characters in Islam that were clubbed together as Muhammad., One was nice guy., other was a warrior/rapist/murderer/(whatever people call) of that time. And i am of the opinions that Quran + hadith was written in mid eighth century., whole Islamic history is questionable
. So Ideally I don't want you to go that far in what happened in 7th century and project that to what needed to be done in 21 st century for reforming Islam and Muslims..
Let us only take history from colonial times and use that to dissect the problems in Islam in Non-Muslim countries and in Muslim countries ..
with best regards
yeezevee
Topic: The Reformed Islam of COEM