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 Topic: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?

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  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #60 - February 24, 2010, 05:07 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 04:39 PM
    See my answer to billy
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=8866.msg222764#msg222764

    and YES the Quran is the ONLY *holy* book for Muslims... I'm not disregarding Hadith of course, but Bukhari's book is NOT a holy book.

    I'm not denying apstasy either... in the early Islamic state it was treated as treason and treason is punishable by death (since apostate women weren't as dangerous, they were treated badly rather than being killed.. in the old days apostasy = treason, not so anymore.)

    I dont think anybody from outside or inside Islam care whether hadith are/are not the holy book other than quran-onlies or people like yourself who are unforutnately considered heretics.  As long as these books belong to Islam, then they will be considered to be Islamic - whether they are the Quran or not.

    Secondly on this forum I mostly criticise what I honestly consider to be the real & true Islam, not what a group of heretics have conjured up for self-justification purposes.
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  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #61 - February 24, 2010, 05:09 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 05:06 PM
    Like I said, I was confused as to why choose a certain grammatical position: Muslim-an... why not use the neutral grammatical position: Muslim... ok, now I know there's actually a story behind it it. Smiley


    Cos Musulman sounds hilarious. I'm a bit of a pioneer and am trying to get musulman reused as a sort of dimissive equivalent of calling someone a 'hillbilly' or 'redneck' only for Muslims. I use "musulman" all the time around desis, even when I'm speaking english.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #62 - February 24, 2010, 05:11 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 05:02 PM
    @ Yunus

    You dismissed his comments as having something to do with a past relationship.. this was a very cheap shot which proved billy's point. Got it?


    Ok, maybe it was a cheap shot. I apologise to Billy. But I do feel the last part of his post:

    ''But still, as everyone knows, they are capable of sympathy and generosity too, because it is possible for Muslims to change.''

    made it sound like he was talking about Muslims in general. It was this that I actually took issue with - that it sounded like he was saying ''Islam conditions all Muslims to be cruel bullies'' - obviously utter nonsense.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #63 - February 24, 2010, 05:17 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on February 24, 2010, 04:53 PM
    In addition for the minority of people that 'Islam makes into idiots' or 'poisonous snakes with venom in their fangs' as dear billy would put it


    I said that for many Muslims, they become inhumane, cruel, wicked, bullying and violent, when Islam is criticised, dissented from, or rejected.

    Quote
    to these bullies of cruelty, you are violating a primal taboo of such immensity that the blood in their veins becomes like lava, and the saliva in their mouth becomes like snakes venom, all because you dissent from Islam


    In other words, they become hateful, murderous and violent - and this can happen to otherwise rational and personable men and women. All because Islam is criticised or rejected. Are you denying that is the case amongst a certain proportion of Muslims?

    I think the proportion varies, but I honestly can't see how anyone who is being honest can deny that.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #64 - February 24, 2010, 05:18 PM
    Quote
    made it sound like he was talking about Muslims in general. It was this that I actually took issue with - that it sounded like he was saying ''Islam conditions all Muslims to be cruel bullies'' - obviously utter nonsense.


    That's what every member here believes, not only billy... I'm surprised you didn't realize that, and that's why your singling out billy seemed like a cheap shot to me.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #65 - February 24, 2010, 05:19 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 05:18 PM
    That's what every member here believes, not only billy... I'm surprised you just noticed that and that's why your singling out billy seemed like a cheap shot to me.


    Every member? Speak for yourself.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #66 - February 24, 2010, 05:20 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on February 24, 2010, 05:11 PM
    made it sound like he was talking about Muslims in general.


    No - you clearly misunderstood what I said. I said that the boundaries that Islam can erect to humane sympathy can be breached by the innate goodness that Muslims have as individuals. That is saying that the barriers to compassion for non Muslims, or apostates and critics of Islam cannot extinguish that spirit.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #67 - February 24, 2010, 05:20 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on February 24, 2010, 04:59 PM
    in fact I have not made any abusive comments since I have come on this forum.

    This is a lie - you've made many abusive comments to members here using words like "tosser", far more than have been done to you.  
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  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #68 - February 24, 2010, 05:21 PM
    @ Iblis

    by every member, I mean non-Muslims.

    Don't you believe that what you consider to be the "real" Islam conditions its followers to be cruel bullies?
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #69 - February 24, 2010, 05:22 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 05:18 PM
    That's what every member here believes, not only billy... I'm surprised you didn't realize that, and that's why your singling out billy seemed like a cheap shot to me.


    Not me, but I do think Islam is derogatory against the Kaffir and Women so I think it needs reform. TBH i don't think many "Muslims" are Muslims because some know less than me.
  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #70 - February 24, 2010, 05:22 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 05:18 PM
    That's what every member here believes, not only billy...


    Wrong, wrong, and so sorrowfully wrong  Roll Eyes

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #71 - February 24, 2010, 05:22 PM
    Quote from: billy on February 24, 2010, 05:17 PM
    I said that for many Muslims, they become inhumane, cruel, wicked, bullying and violent, when Islam is criticised, dissented from, or rejected.

    In other words, they become hateful, murderous and violent - and this can happen to otherwise rational and personable men and women. All because Islam is criticised or rejected. Are you denying that is the case amongst a certain proportion of Muslims?

    I think the proportion varies, but I honestly can't see how anyone who is being honest can deny that.





    Of course I agree that there are a tiny minority of Muslims that are like the way you describe above. My issue was that your post sounded like you were refering to Muslims in general, as do a lot of your other posts of a similar nature. My honest apologies if I indeed have misunderstood you.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #72 - February 24, 2010, 05:24 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 05:21 PM
    @ Iblis

    by every member, I mean non-Muslims.

    Don't you believe that what you consider to be the "real" Islam conditions its followers to be cruel bullies?


    REAL Islam is evil. No doubt.

    But you stated that all members (nonmuslims, whatever) believe ALL muslims are conditioned as such. That's a lie. Your a liar.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #73 - February 24, 2010, 05:25 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 24, 2010, 05:20 PM
    This is a lie - you've made many abusive comments to members here using words like "tosser", far more than have been done to you.  


    Get over yourself you tosser. Stop pretending like you didn't know I was kidding around.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #74 - February 24, 2010, 05:28 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on February 24, 2010, 05:22 PM

    Of course I agree that there are a tiny minority of Muslims that are like the way you describe above. My issue was that your post sounded like you were refering to Muslims in general, as do a lot of your other posts of a similar nature. My honest apologies if I indeed have misunderstood you.


    Yes, you have misunderstood. Apology accepted.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #75 - February 24, 2010, 05:29 PM
    Well its not a TINY minority. I would say it's upwards of a 1/4 of Muslims who are hateful and inclined towards violence. So a very LARGE minority. Smiley
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #76 - February 24, 2010, 05:29 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 24, 2010, 05:07 PM
    I dont think anybody from outside or inside Islam care whether hadith are/are not the holy book other than quran-onlies or people like yourself who are unforutnately considered heretics.  As long as these books belong to Islam, then they will be considered to be Islamic - whether they are the Quran or not.

    Secondly on this forum I mostly criticise what I honestly consider to be the real & true Islam, not what a group of heretics have conjured up for self-justification purposes.


    That's the whole point! People can be called heretics only if they claim a part of their HOLY texts is not the word of God...

    Now when it comes to Hadith, the question of which of these were the true ones has always been debatable until Bukhari et al declared that they answered the question for Sunnis (and Al-Kafi et al answered it for Shia), etc...

    my very valid objection is: why should we allow men who are NOT prophets decide for us what is or isn't part of the religion?

    I say FUCK every single scholar... everyone of us should be their own scholars.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #77 - February 24, 2010, 05:31 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 05:29 PM
    I say FUCK every single scholar...


    Ewww...
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #78 - February 24, 2010, 05:32 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on February 24, 2010, 05:24 PM
    REAL Islam is evil. No doubt.

    But you stated that all members (nonmuslims, whatever) believe ALL muslims are conditioned as such. That's a lie. Your a liar.


    Fuck you Iblis  Roll Eyes You know what I meant exactly: to you, All followers of the "real" Islam are evil.... you know that's what I said, troll! Smiley
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #79 - February 24, 2010, 05:34 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 05:32 PM
    Fuck you Iblis  Roll Eyes You know what I meant exactly: to you, All followers of the "real" Islam are evil.... you know that's what I said, troll! Smiley


    Smiley

    No BROTHER, let me help you out here... you bolded this statement:

    ''Islam conditions all Muslims to be cruel bullies''

    And said every member here believes this.

    I do not believe this. Therefore you lie. Pants on fire. Etc etc.

    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #80 - February 24, 2010, 05:36 PM
    @ billy AND ALL non-Muslim members here, please answer this question:

    Do you believe that what you consider to be the "real" Islam conditions its followers to be cruel bullies? yes/no?
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #81 - February 24, 2010, 05:38 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on February 24, 2010, 05:29 PM
    Well its not a TINY minority. I would say it's upwards of a 1/4 of Muslims who are hateful and inclined towards violence. So a very LARGE minority. Smiley


    Really? In my experience it really is a tiny minority - maybe one in every hundered Muslims - but probably even much less. Of course we all know the media can give a very skewed perspective (through no fault of their own - peaceful Muslims do not make for very entertaining TV). The problem is the peaceful Muslims do not speak up and their vioces are not heard - we only hear the crass and very loud voices of the small minority that Billy describes.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #82 - February 24, 2010, 05:41 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 05:36 PM
    Do you believe that what you consider to be the "real" Islam conditions its followers to be cruel bullies? yes/no?


    Not always. But the theoretical TRUE musulman is naturally a cruel and evil creature - Islam demands him to be. Read the Quran. Smiley


    Quote from: abuyunus2 on February 24, 2010, 05:38 PM
    Really? In my experience it really is a tiny minority - maybe one in every hundered Muslims - but probably even much less. Of course we all know the media can give a very skewed perspective (through no fault of their own - peaceful Muslims do not make for very entertaining TV). The problem is the peaceful Muslims do not speak up and their vioces are not heard - we only hear the crass and very loud voices of the small minority that Billy describes.


    I'm talking just from my personal experience. I've met LOTS of muslims. Here and abroad. I'd say about 1/4 or more are unhinged, potentially violent and thoroughly indoctrinated tools.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #83 - February 24, 2010, 05:43 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 05:18 PM
    That's what every member here believes


    That;  'Islam conditions all Muslims to be cruel bullies'' - certainly not!
  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #84 - February 24, 2010, 05:45 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 05:36 PM
    @ billy AND ALL non-Muslim members here, please answer this question:

    Do you believe that what you consider to be the "real" Islam conditions its followers to be cruel bullies? yes/no?


    There is no such thing as "real" Islam in my opinion.
  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #85 - February 24, 2010, 05:47 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on February 24, 2010, 05:45 PM
    There is no such thing as "real" Islam in my opinion.


    But there are relatively more purer strands of Islam than others, wouldn't you say?

    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #86 - February 24, 2010, 05:51 PM
    Quote from: debunker on February 24, 2010, 05:36 PM
    @ billy AND ALL non-Muslim members here, please answer this question:

    Do you believe that what you consider to be the "real" Islam conditions its followers to be cruel bullies? yes/no?

    Easy, I am surprised you ask.  The answer is yes, and much much more..  misogynists, racists, arrogant, opinionated, homophobic, tyrannical, backward etc etc
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  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #87 - February 24, 2010, 05:52 PM
    @ Iblis

    Quote
    But the theoretical TRUE musulman is naturally a cruel and evil creature - Islam demands him to be. Read the Quran.

     

    That's exactly what i thought billy and every non-Muslim member here believes.
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #88 - February 24, 2010, 05:54 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 24, 2010, 05:51 PM
    Easy, I am surprised you ask.  The answer is yes, and much much more..  misogynists, racists, arrogant, opinionated, homophobic, tyrannical, backward etc etc


    Exactly! that's what I thought billy said... so i was surprised Yunus got particularly offended at billy's comment... since all of you think the same. Smiley
    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Why do 'some' Muslims/Believers do this?
     Reply #89 - February 24, 2010, 05:54 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on February 24, 2010, 05:51 PM
    Easy, I am surprised you ask.  The answer is yes, and much much more..  misogynists, racists, arrogant, opinionated, homophobic, tyrannical, backward etc etc


     Afro

    But I think the difference is we don't believe ALL muslims turn that way. Real life and human compassion tends to throw a wrench in the evil theological machinery of islam.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

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