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 Topic: Theory of Evolution and Islam, are they really incompatible?

 (Read 2846 times)
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  • Theory of Evolution and Islam, are they really incompatible?
     OP - February 27, 2010, 02:51 PM

    So it has been a few months since I apostatized and I was always told you can't believe in Evolution. I have now read more about this theory and also read more about Islam.


    My question is can you not be a muslim and still believe in Evolution? And it's a question I hope to ask at various muslim forums.

    First, and please note I have very little experience with this Science, but as far as I understand it deals only with the evolution of organisms. That's it. Nothing more nothing less. It says nothing about God, or religion. It says nothing about morals or ideologies. It's just a science, and a very specific one. Nothing about the origins of life or the formation of this universe.

    Of course, if you are a muslim you have to take the Quran as literal. According to what I have been taught and according to the orthodox view and the intellectually honest one. Also the only sensical one, what's the point of a metaphorical truth? We can make it up as we go? Then why even reveal it? Or in the manner that the Quran was revealed, along with a prophet and a sunnah, rituals and symbols etc.

    1. God created the world. That means everything, all organism, all species. Bacteria, viruses, dinosaurs, cro-magnons. You name it, he made it.

    2. The Quran is the literal word of God. And God in the Quran shows us how he made humans. From clay, and he breathed his soul into us. He created all the animals before Adam. And Eve came from Adam*.

    The problem here is that of course evolution shows humans did not spring up magically as one species. We have evolved just like everything else on this planet.

    I can only see these choices

    1. Evolution is completely false.

    2. Adaptation and micro-evolution between species is true. Speciation is not true. We have not evolved from apes. We are not apes. We are humans. Created on our own.


    3. Evolution is true and literal Creation story is True.

    This is the most difficult to understand, honestly the only way I can see it working is having a dual mind. My brain hurts just be trying to figure out how these two radically different points of views can work. When in the light of Proof and Evidence. There is no proof and evidence of Adam and Eve. So how can they both be true? Also; where they were created in Heaven or on Earth? All of this is inference when you try to prove it that Adam and Eve is true.
    There is also a problem of why would God say look to the Heavens and Earth for proof of my creation? When we look at Evolution we can see it work without a supernatural deity. There is nothing supernatural about it. Maybe the origins of life (but we are still trying to learn how to explain that, it's an infant science) or maybe the law of natural selection is from a God (this leaves with how do you know its your God, and that is an assumption that it was created by a Divine rule, also leaves other problems such as harmful mutations, it would make into a evil Nazi Scientist).

    4. Evolution is true. There is nothing that contradicts it in the Quran. Since Evolution is a science that has nothing to do with theology stating whether or not there is a God has nothing to do with it. It's like trying to prove God with Mechanical Engineering. The Adam and Eve story is NOT literal. It has nothing to do with evolution on Earth.

    This mentality is somewhat denying the problems. First you might say its not literal. How do you prove that? You can't. It's inference. Why would God put this story here? Why would he not put how the world was really made? Why would God say be and it is? Why would God say he is the best of designers? If the Creation story is a metaphor then what's the meaning of it? How can God leave us with half a meaning? What's the use of that? And is this book not supposed to be mubeen (clear)?




    ------------------
    *Interesting discussion about this here:

    http://forum.darkness.com/topic/111586-adam-made-of-clay-and-blood/
  • Re: Theory of Evolution and Islam, are they really incompatible?
     Reply #1 - February 27, 2010, 02:58 PM



    BD I wrote this the other day on the 'Christian leaders endorse evolution' thread.


    +++++

    Acceptance of evolution amongst Christians and Muslims is related to levels of literalism. The evangelical whacko Christians are literalists who have a very Quranic attitude to the Bible. Those Christians who treat the Bible less strictly, who accept it figuratively, who can take a metaphorical conception of its precepts, are able to create space for an acceptance of evolution because of this.

    Whilst amongst Muslims, especially educated Muslims living in the West, this is also true, that they can accept evolution to a greater or lesser degree because they are able to conceive of Islam and the Quran in such a way to allow so (or convince themselves that it can be interpreted thus), it doesn't translate into mainstream or even higher echelon proponents, because Islam is (relatively) more mired in literalism, not only at the fringe, but at the centre, and in the mainstream.

    As such, these tensions and differences are something of a microcosm of the tensions within Islam and between Muslims, of those who believe that Islam should be viewed figuratively and metaphorically, and the majority opinion, that Islam is literal, and the Quran the unadorned facts of dvine revelation and unchallengable truth.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Theory of Evolution and Islam, are they really incompatible?
     Reply #2 - February 27, 2010, 03:03 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhYxUBoFMyA

    Zakir Naik debunks evolution. /sarcasm


    Off topic: we should make videos like that debunking zakir naiks lectures  Afro
  • Re: Theory of Evolution and Islam, are they really incompatible?
     Reply #3 - February 27, 2010, 03:12 PM


    BD I wrote this the other day on the 'Christian leaders endorse evolution' thread.


    +++++

    Acceptance of evolution amongst Christians and Muslims is related to levels of literalism. The evangelical whacko Christians are literalists who have a very Quranic attitude to the Bible. Those Christians who treat the Bible less strictly, who accept it figuratively, who can take a metaphorical conception of its precepts, are able to create space for an acceptance of evolution because of this.

    Whilst amongst Muslims, especially educated Muslims living in the West, this is also true, that they can accept evolution to a greater or lesser degree because they are able to conceive of Islam and the Quran in such a way to allow so (or convince themselves that it can be interpreted thus), it doesn't translate into mainstream or even higher echelon proponents, because Islam is (relatively) more mired in literalism, not only at the fringe, but at the centre, and in the mainstream.

    As such, these tensions and differences are something of a microcosm of the tensions within Islam and between Muslims, of those who believe that Islam should be viewed figuratively and metaphorically, and the majority opinion, that Islam is literal, and the Quran the unadorned facts of dvine revelation and unchallengable truth.





    Sorry Billy didn't read that. Great post.

    There is an issue of course with what that means in practical terms.

    The people that believe in Evolution do they believe in the metaphorical punishments? Of this world and the next?

    Take a look at Debunker, who does not believe in Sharia, nor in Hijab. He does believe in Evolution. But believes the Quran is literal and Hell is real. Very, very real.

    But then again I think Debunker is one good argument from apostasy Cheesy
  • Re: Theory of Evolution and Islam, are they really incompatible?
     Reply #4 - February 27, 2010, 07:13 PM

    I think religious people are a very confused people. Why? Because they have a concept that revelation is standard whereby rationality is to be judged. However this stand does not work when it comes to their efforts to try and get convert from atheists or other religions and sects. At this point they they have nothing common but logic and rationality to argue their point.

    Just doing this demolishes their very fundamental concept that revelation is the standard whereby all else is to be judged for its truth.

    It would make no sense arguing with anyone with whom there is no common ground to start from. So there has to be something other than revelation as standard to judge things by. This cannot be anything other than logic and rationality. Even when religious people from different religions and sects debate each other, they cannot debate without this standard as common ground.

    This very clearly proves to all that nothing can beat logic and rationality ie not even so called revelations from god/s.

    The same happens when we ask them to prove existence of their alleged god/s. They bring in cause and effect. Well this is the whole point of evolution theory that it explains chains of causes behind the effects.

    This goes beyond silliness ie it becomes really funny. They use the idea of cause and effect themselves yet when evolutionists tell them the same thing, they call them all sorts of names.

    http://www.the-brights.net/forums/forum/index.php?showtopic=1577&st=60


    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
  • Re: Theory of Evolution and Islam, are they really incompatible?
     Reply #5 - February 27, 2010, 07:21 PM

    Great insight Mughal!
  • Re: Theory of Evolution and Islam, are they really incompatible?
     Reply #6 - February 28, 2010, 10:29 AM

    Thank you dear kenan. I also posted on faithfreedom in an earlier forum.

    http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1048

    Yet earlier post can be found in another earlier faithfreedom forum using the link below. Search for posts by mughal200

    http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/search.php?mode=results

    We had another forum before that but that is gone.

    Before that I was active on ibn waraq's secularislam.org guestbook but that too is gone.



    I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
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