I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!

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- cosmicdancer
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I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
OP - February 28, 2010, 08:57 PM

How it is possible to believe something so utterly - for so long - but then discover it is bullshit. I thought the Qur'an was so holy - I even used to kiss it (I feel embarrassed about saying that but it's the truth). I thought these were unshakable and rock-solid truths and nothing would shake my faith in Islam.

And I find it so revealing about human nature how one can be so sure about something then discover it really is a pile of stupid man-made myths.

I do feel cheated sometimes - though I don't blame anyone but myself.

But it also gives me a whole new perspective on what the things my Muslim family and friends say - as well as the things I hear Muslims say on the internet when they defend Islam. I see that same unshakable confidence and iron-clad certainty and inability to truly question the things they believe and see things from a different perspective

But that's why I really cant be too harsh on Muslims - and why I hate it when those who have never-been-Muslims accuse them of Taqiyya and being devious etc... because I know they are not.

No disrespect to those who have never been Muslims but only an Ex-Muslim can ever really understand this. Even those who have left other religions cannot totally understand the effect Islam has on a Muslim.
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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #1 - February 28, 2010, 09:02 PM

My own apostasy was more to do with the entire concept of divinity. I just don't believe in God, which made my landing a bit softer than when someone rejects islam.
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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #2 - February 28, 2010, 09:23 PM

Hassan - I feel that many Muslims don't have the emotional tools to cope with criticism and even the truth about the Quran and aspects of Islam and so they just deny reflexively whatever the criticism is. Most of the time they are not being disingenuous - they just can't bring themselves to accept flaws or contradictions. They are not emotionally equipped for it (and it is an emotional thing because that's how they have been raised to view the Quran, with rapturous and defensive emotion), I almost don't think they are in control of their responses half the time.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #3 - February 28, 2010, 10:09 PM

I don't know about emotionally equipped - they are no different than anyone else.

But it's just that Muslims tend to be so certain Islam is the truth. I am not sure what it is about Islam that really manages to work it's way deep into the mind, but it presents itself as something clear and certain and no room for doubt - the literal word of God. That simply doesn't exist in any other religion.

Then of course there is the fear factor. Is there another religion that describes Hell in such frightening and graphic details?

I guess this and the fact that Islam was the last of the Abrahamic religions and has been enormously successful - I guess one can just lose oneself in it and just can't see beyond it. It tends to take over one's identity too so it is very hard to see oneself as not ever being a Muslim
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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #4 - February 28, 2010, 10:22 PM

Quote
I don't know about emotionally equipped - they are no different than anyone else.

Perhaps you're right. Maybe I worded that wrong.

What I meant to say is that because of all the insights you give:

Quote
it's just that Muslims tend to be so certain Islam is the truth. I am not sure what it is about Islam that really manages to work it's way deep into the mind, but it presents itself as something clear and certain and no room for doubt - the literal word of God. That simply doesn't exist in any other religion.

Then of course there is the fear factor. Is there another religion that describes Hell in such frightening and graphic details?

I guess this and the fact that Islam was the last of the Abrahamic religions and has been enormously successful - I guess one can just lose oneself in it and just can't see beyond it. It tends to take over one's identity too so it is very hard to see oneself as not ever being a Muslim

.......there seems to be a totality of reaction to dissent or criticism of Quran and Islam that seems to shake and upset many Muslims to the core in ways that are often hard for people to understand.

Not being able to deal with this emotionally or intellectually often makes some Muslims who otherwise are probably privately in disagreement with some parts of Islam defend them.

My reference to emotion is meant in regards to how it takes so much soul searching, guilt and so on, for many Muslims to question Islam.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #5 - February 28, 2010, 10:28 PM

Quote from: billy on February 28, 2010, 10:22 PM
.......there seems to be a totality of reaction to dissent or criticism of Quran and Islam that seems to shake and upset many Muslims to the core in ways that are often hard for people to understand.

Yes and I think that creates psychological pressure on Muslims. Anyone saying anything out of line gets a "Astaghfirullah!" and some sort of quote or saying warning of the consequences. In fact I remember almost policing my own thoughts - thinking I shouldn't even 'go there' as this is a really bad thought that will lead to Kufr (such a scary thing for Muslims).
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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #6 - February 28, 2010, 10:35 PM

Hassan - its like Muslims are inculcated with a belief that they are Allah's proxies on earth, policing not just the actions and conducts of other Muslims, but their own thoughts too.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #7 - February 28, 2010, 11:01 PM

Hassan I wrote about you here:

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=8913.0
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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #8 - February 28, 2010, 11:03 PM

Quote from: Hassan on February 28, 2010, 08:57 PM
How it is possible to believe something so utterly - for so long - but then discover it is bullshit. I thought the Qur'an was so holy - I even used to kiss it (I feel embarrassed about saying that but it's the truth). I thought these were unshakable and rock-solid truths and nothing would shake my faith in Islam.

And I find it so revealing about human nature how one can be so sure about something then discover it really is a pile of stupid man-made myths.

I do feel cheated sometimes - though I don't blame anyone but myself.

But it also gives me a whole new perspective on what the things my Muslim family and friends say - as well as the things I hear Muslims say on the internet when they defend Islam. I see that same unshakable confidence and iron-clad certainty and inability to truly question the things they believe and see things from a different perspective

But that's why I really cant be too harsh on Muslims - and why I hate it when those who have never-been-Muslims accuse them of Taqiyya and being devious etc... because I know they are not.

No disrespect to those who have never been Muslims but only an Ex-Muslim can ever really understand this. Even those who have left other religions cannot totally understand the effect Islam has on a Muslim.

Honestly, I don't think my jaw will ever stop dropping at everytime I hear Muslims show how freaking brain-washed and clueless they are. I mean I just had an argument with a person who stated that Islam "respects everyones civil liberties" and that "there is no such thing as apostasy in islam". You have to be on crack... or better yet, on Islam.

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #9 - March 01, 2010, 07:59 AM

Quote from: Iblis on February 28, 2010, 11:03 PM
Honestly, I don't think my jaw will ever stop dropping at everytime I hear Muslims show how freaking brain-washed and clueless they are. I mean I just had an argument with a person who stated that Islam "respects everyones civil liberties" and that "there is no such thing as apostasy in islam". You have to be on crack... or better yet, on Islam.

I know! It's so funny when I hear stuff like "Women are better respected in Islam!" Or it was Islam that first invented Democracy!" (The idea of Shoora!) - and Muslims believe all this stuff! LOL
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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #10 - March 01, 2010, 08:01 AM

I think the same way.

But all it takes is a good wank afterwards to make the mood better.

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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #11 - March 01, 2010, 09:49 AM

I'm still not over the stage of kicking myself for being so stupid and gullible.

Quote from: Hassan on February 28, 2010, 08:57 PM
I thought the Qur'an was so holy - I even used to kiss it (I feel embarrassed about saying that but it's the truth).

Hah I used to do that too. I also used to cradle it in my arms and hold it against my chest, as if some of its light would shine within me by doing so. Beat that, Hassan

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There's only sorrow for tomorrow
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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #12 - March 01, 2010, 10:11 AM

Quote from: Naerys on March 01, 2010, 09:49 AM
Hah I used to do that too. I also used to cradle it in my arms and hold it against my chest, as if some of its light would shine within me by doing so. Beat that, Hassan

Quote from: Hassan on February 28, 2010, 08:57 PM
How it is possible to believe something so utterly - for so long - but then discover it is bullshit. I thought the Qur'an was so holy - I even used to kiss it (I feel embarrassed about saying that but it's the truth). I thought these were unshakable and rock-solid truths and nothing would shake my faith in Islam.

wtf! I did that too, usually three times because one time wasnt good enough! Mo must be seriously pissing himself inside the grave

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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #13 - March 01, 2010, 12:09 PM

In my teen years, I would ALWAYS do wudhu before ever touching the Quran.

Apparently I heard that even TOUCHING the pages of the Quran without proper ablution would be disrespectful since we are so najis all the time.

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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #14 - March 01, 2010, 12:59 PM

Yeah, woman can't touch a copy of Quran during their menses. It's ridiculous, especially when you're cleaning a room and have to call someone else to remove the book from a shelf or a table so you can clean the spot because you can't do it yourself.

He's no friend to the friendless
And he's the mother of grief
There's only sorrow for tomorrow
Surely life is too brief
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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #15 - March 01, 2010, 01:18 PM

@Naerys

lol... well I don't know if you know but some Muslims put verses written on paper into water and drink it - because it says the Qur'an is "Shifa" - Cure!

@atheist.pk

Yes, I always made sure I did wudu before touching Qur'an (until my latter years when I got lazy - I reckond people wouldn't notice and well, God... I just reckoned he wouldn't mind lol )

In the Qur'an it says "No one touches it but the mutatahiroon" meaning the pure/clean - many take this to mean you must be in Wudu - AND not allow non-Muslims to touch it - at least not in the Arabic lol

@ IsLame

lol... I gues we're just a bunch of Qur'an kissers
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Re: I'm Still Gobsmacked at Times!
Reply #16 - March 01, 2010, 10:43 PM

.

You need to read this book.
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