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 Topic: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?

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  • What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     OP - March 03, 2010, 03:07 PM
    Thought it would be of interest to see if & how this forum has benefited members.

    Since joining this forum have you

    i) changed
    ii) what have you gained
    iii) learned that you were not as aware of before? 

    I would say

    Quote
    i) changed

     
    I have probably become a little more open-minded about people in general since being here.
    Barring a miracle, its now pretty much impossible that I will ever revert back to Islam
    Quote
    ii) what have you gained

     
    - how diverse the exmuslim community is (not just clones of Islame like I may have thought before)
    - how people can reject Islam for a whole host of different reasons than I did
    - an insatiable thirst for knowledge about our universe
    - I have found a place to vent my frustrations
    - how people from completely different geographies/ life experiences can be share the same sense of humour and generally be on the same 'page' as each other
    Quote
    iii) learned that you were not as aware of before?

     
    - there are many others who have been through similar experiences
    - the power of memes
    - how unbelievable manmade Islam is
    - that the plight of some other ex-theists is very similar to our own
    - youtube isnt just for jokes
    - its possible to have a virtual community, that exhibits similar social patterns to real life
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  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #1 - March 03, 2010, 04:44 PM
    Since I joined this forum almost exactly the same time I apostatised, I can't be really sure which of them has caused the changes, apostasy or the forum.

    But I am sure I learned heaps of stuff here, and became more open-minded about some stuff. Not to mention the fact that the people here are the only Ex-Muslims I know.
    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #2 - March 03, 2010, 07:19 PM
    Quote from: Infidel on March 03, 2010, 04:44 PM
    But I am sure I learned heaps of stuff here, and became more open-minded about some stuff.

    In what way have you become more open-minded?
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  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #3 - March 03, 2010, 10:37 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 03, 2010, 03:07 PM
    Thought it would be of interest to see if & how this forum has benefited members.

    Since joining this forum have you

    i) changed
    ii) what have you gained
    iii) learned that you were not as aware of before?


    1/ I've gotten older. Cheesy

    2/ & 3/ I've learned a shitload about graphics, coding and websites. I knew absolutely nothing when this place opened and learned out of necessity. I'm quite chuffed about what I can do now. So that both a gain and something I have learned parrot

    I've also learned a lot more about Islam and the different perspectives various people and groups have on it. Of course this makes fundamentalist sites, both Islamic and anti-Islamic, seem dafter then ever.  Wink

    Quote
    - how people from completely different geographies/ life experiences can be share the same sense of humour and generally be on the same 'page' as each other

    This gets me too. It makes arbitrary divisions of race and culture seem ridiculous, which is a good thing. That is not to say that a person's background is completely unimportant as it does affect one's outlook in various ways. However the common threads underlying all of that are what can prompt people to think about others' points of view, because without some sense of shared experience it is much harder to make the effort to put yourself in someone else's shoes.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #4 - March 03, 2010, 10:47 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on March 03, 2010, 10:37 PM
    I've learned a shitload about graphics, coding and websites. I knew absolutely nothing when this place opened and learned out of necessity.

    Thats quite impressive - I thought you had always been in IT , in that case what industry were you in beforehand?
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  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #5 - March 03, 2010, 10:48 PM
    Domestic construction.  Smiley
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #6 - March 04, 2010, 05:41 AM
    I just feel relieved that I joined this forum and got the chance to share my thoughts and hear others about everything.  Smiley
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #7 - March 04, 2010, 05:51 AM
    I have learned many different perspectives on Islam, and even life in general to be honest. Not to mention I met many cool and wonderful people on this forum, well except 1 or 2 dipshits, but other than that, everything is gravy!
    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #8 - March 04, 2010, 10:44 PM
    Quote from: Cool Canadian on March 04, 2010, 05:51 AM
    I have learned many different perspectives on Islam, and even life in general to be honest. Not to mention I met many cool and wonderful people on this forum, well except 1 or 2 dipshits, but other than that, everything is gravy!


    Seconded. Obviously coming here as an open-minded Muslim I gradually became persuaded of the arguments against Islam. I guess as a Muslim I was willing to be critical of other religions but my own, so I guess it is no surprise that I have become an atheist. I'm more comfortable and at ease with my view of the world. I would say I have improved my ability to argue too but my knowledge about Islam was profound enough to reject it at the time, just denial really. I won't go rambling on (I'll save that for when and if I write my story) but ye the ex-muslim community is diverse, many more different personalities than I expected, most here are ok and reasonable though which is what is appealling as well as the jokers here too.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #9 - March 04, 2010, 10:56 PM
    I had already apostated when I came on this forum. I needed an outlet and also see if there were many others like me. The discussions are productive and useful. Although I don't take part in the discussions which relate to the details within islam simply because my atheism was a ground up one and was related to my rejection of divinity, therefore making the details and so called "miracles" and "qualities" of the Quran superfluous.
  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #10 - March 04, 2010, 11:33 PM
    Quote from: Omaar Khayaam on March 04, 2010, 10:56 PM
    I had already apostated when I came on this forum. I needed an outlet and also see if there were many others like me. The discussions are productive and useful. Although I don't take part in the discussions which relate to the details within islam simply because my atheism was a ground up one and was related to my rejection of divinity, therefore making the details and so called "miracles" and "qualities" of the Quran superfluous.


    Ye I see where you are coming from, I mean the philosophical problems posed by the idea of the abrahamic God existing are more than enough to abandon Islam and the idea of God. For me it was everything accumulated together which cemented my apostasy.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #11 - March 15, 2010, 04:41 PM
    i) changed : Yes, I've become a neocon
    ii) what have you gained : to know how pervasive exMuslims are becoming
    iii) learned that you were not as aware of before? A lot of media that I don't have the time to watch/read. The stories of other exMuslims. Especially the documentaries and think tanks like the CSC/Douglas Murray.
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  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #12 - March 15, 2010, 04:46 PM
    Quote from: HighOctane on March 15, 2010, 04:41 PM
    i) changed : Yes, I've become a neocon

    In what sense?
  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #13 - March 15, 2010, 04:58 PM
    I was liberal before. I didn't know Neoconservatism existed, what it was, what it implies, the causes it supports and that I really do idenitfy with it (not from a warmongering perceptive, but from a fundamentally logical way of thinking).
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  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #14 - March 15, 2010, 05:01 PM
    So you've gone from being a Muslim to wanting to bomb them? Huh?
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #15 - March 15, 2010, 05:04 PM
    No, of course not! As I say, a way of thinking as in the Islamic meme needs to be dealt with. Again, *not Muslims*, but the meme.
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  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #16 - March 15, 2010, 05:08 PM
    Quote from: HighOctane on March 15, 2010, 04:58 PM
    ... not from a warmongering perceptive, but from a fundamentally logical way of thinking.

    As in: It would be far better if everyone had the chance to live in the type of society or culture that best promoted human advancement?
  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #17 - March 15, 2010, 05:13 PM
    Exactly.  Smiley
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  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #18 - March 15, 2010, 05:13 PM
    Neo-Con has so many negative connotations, might be better to think of a less loaded term to describe your way of seeing things now.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #19 - March 15, 2010, 05:16 PM
    Yes this is true, hence the long explanation, if you know of any better terms I'd be interested.

    Time for everyone else's opinion to the original post now! Afro
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  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #20 - March 16, 2010, 04:06 AM
    Quote
    Since joining this forum have you

    i) changed


    Yes.  I've become more comfortable about not being Muslim, I don't talk about being Muslim or about Islam as much as I used to, and oddly, become a bit less paranoid about it all.

    Quote
    ii) what have you gained


    Just the knowledge that there are people out there who, despite our diverse backgrounds, ages, and experiences, have left Islam also and can offer support.  For a year or so prior to finding this forum, it really did seem like I was "the only one."


    Quote
    iii) learned that you were not as aware of before? 


    That the real work (on yourself as a person, in relation to others) begins after you leave Islam sometimes... that leaving Islam is not the culmination of your growth as a person, esp. in terms of how you relate to others.
    [this space for rent]
  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #21 - March 16, 2010, 04:08 AM
    Quote from: Manat on March 16, 2010, 04:06 AM
    that leaving Islam is not the culmination of your growth as a person, esp. in terms of how you relate to others.


    Could you elaborate. Smiley
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #22 - March 17, 2010, 07:45 PM
    Quote from: HighOctane on March 15, 2010, 05:16 PM
    Yes this is true, hence the long explanation, if you know of any better terms I'd be interested.

    What do you mean you're a neo-con, did you phrase it badly or do you really mean it?  I know you have explained this already, but I am a still a little confused by what you meant?
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  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #23 - March 20, 2010, 06:15 PM
    I really meant it, it's just the term "Neocon" is badly understood and incorrectly synonymous to "hawk" to many people. Wiki:

    Quote
    Neoconservatism is a political philosophy that emerged in the United States of America, and which supports using American economic and military power to bring liberalism, democracy, and human rights to other countries.[1][2][3]  Consequently the term is chiefly applicable to certain Americans and their strong supporters. In economics, unlike traditionalist conservatives, neoconservatives are generally comfortable with a welfare state; and, while rhetorically supportive of free markets, they are willing to interfere for overriding social purposes.[4]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

    Though I do think the allies helping out should get some credit too, we do make a sizable contribution in Afghanistan and Iraq.
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  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #24 - March 20, 2010, 06:26 PM
    It never ceases to amaze me how many euphemistic terms people have invented since the late 19th century to justify what used to be called, without shame, imperialism.
    fuck you
  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #25 - March 20, 2010, 06:27 PM
    HO, please reconsider, you are intelligent enough to see through what amounts to an ideology that grants licence to invade at will and be belligerent when other methods and modes can solve problems between nations better.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #26 - March 20, 2010, 06:38 PM
    Billy, why do you assume that if people are intelligent enough they will reject an ideology with which you disagree?

    Sometimes people just have different values. There are those out there who are plenty smart but think it's morally justified impose the values of their society on other societies through force, and have their nation make the rest of the world in its image-- it's imperialism, neoconservatism is just a form of it.
    fuck you
  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #27 - March 20, 2010, 06:46 PM

    Quote
    Billy, why do you assume that if people are intelligent enough they will reject an ideology with which you disagree?


    For the same reason that this place is full of people who changed their minds about a religion and its ideology.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #28 - March 20, 2010, 06:58 PM
    Yeah, but neoconservatism is a secular ideology, and thus not wholly founded on irrational superstition. One could be entirely rational and be a neoconservative, just having some fundamentally different values on the justification of force and exercise of power than you and I do that accounts for the ideological disagreement.
    fuck you
  • Re: What have you learned during your stay on COEM?
     Reply #29 - March 20, 2010, 07:01 PM
    HO do you realize that "using economic and (especially) military power to bring liberalism, democracy, and human rights to other countries" is in breach of the very principles liberalism, democracy and human rights are based on?
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