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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Niqabs/Burqa should be..
  • Allowed - 12 (23.5%)
  • Partially Banned - 23 (45.1%)
  • Banned - 16 (31.4%)
  • Total Voters: 51

 Topic: Ban Niqab?

 (Read 37104 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 34 5 ... 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #60 - March 11, 2010, 12:53 AM

    I just don't get why people get *personally* offended by a niqabi.. I don't like it, but CC's downright hateful tone (ie immature twat) is puzzling. Huh?

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #61 - March 11, 2010, 12:55 AM

    Quote
    On the other hand, if it was her choice, she was denied her freedom to practice her religion. I guess it's a tough call. I'd rather not see women choosing to wear niqab, but I don't feel it's right to try to prevent them by saying 'you can't do this or this or this if you want to practice that part of your religion.'


    In such a case a judgment was made that the practise could infringe on the right of children to receive an education unimpeded by this attire. The burqa and niqab is not like any other religious article, including the hijab, which, although I think it has misogynist presumptions and roots, does not prevent a woman from being recognised and reciprocating the very basic human need for facial recognition.

    The right of children is paramount.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #62 - March 11, 2010, 01:01 AM

    This is what makes me hate the niqaab. When a woman talks in one, it feels weird. You can't see their facial expressions or anything, so a conversation is very odd, even from my experience when I talk to Niqabis something just doesn't feel right.


    I got a solution-- don't talk with them. I don't. I see niqabis all the time in Philly, particularly West Philly, pushing around baby strollers, shopping and whatnot, and I don't have any reason to talk to them so I don't, anymore than I'd care to strike up a conversation with someone handing out fundie Bible tracts. You wear a niqab and you might as well be wearing a big fuckin sign that says "I'm a religious fundamentalist", so why would I want to talk with someone like that? The fact they are wearing a mask only compounds my disinterest in communicating with them.

    On that level, I can totally understand why people detest the niqab and why people feel sorry for the women who are coerced into wearing it by their family or husband. In Muslim-majority countries, like Turkey, I can sympathize with it, because it's hard to escape the social and family pressure/coercion to wear it that a ban is the only option the state has to protect the freedoms of those who don't want to wear it.

    But in the West, women have a choice. That choice may be difficult, but most important choices are, and that decision may come with sacrifice and risk, but very little is gained in most people's lives without some level of sacrifice and risk. In secular, Western nations there is the option for women to liberate themselves from wearing an unwanted niqab, and seek assistance from the state and charitable organizations for doing so, and so long as that option exists, the state should not ban it, because it will trample on the rights of those who do freely choose to wear it.

    I just don't get why people get *personally* offended by a niqabi.. I don't like it, but CC's downright hateful tone (ie immature twat) is puzzling. Huh?


    I kinda get it. She's reinforcing Islam's gender apartheid, and that is kinda personally offensive to me. It's one thing if you're wearing a niqab because of family or social pressure, quite another to implicitly or explicitly promote this crap on the internet. Just cause I respect someone's right to make a choice doesn't mean I respect that choice. I fully support Nick Griffin's right to spew his hateful shit without the UK government punishing, but if I saw the guy in a bar, I'd scramble his fuckin face.

    In such a case a judgment was made that the practise could infringe on the right of children to receive an education unimpeded by this attire.


    That's not a right. It's a social obligation and a public good, but it's not a right.

    fuck you
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #63 - March 11, 2010, 01:04 AM

    Quote
    That's not a right. It's a social obligation and a public good, but it's not a right.

     

    I'm not sure about that. Certainly under English and European law, one of the most basic rights of a child is to an education, and if the niqab / burqa, unlike a hijab or any other religious attire, impedes the quality of a childs education, it could be deemed as a denial of his / her right, or at least a corrosion of it to a degree.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #64 - March 11, 2010, 01:06 AM

    Again, I agree, but I don't see why they couldn't have worked with her so that she could teach without the niqab.

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #65 - March 11, 2010, 01:08 AM

    I shouldn't have called her a twat, I take that back it was stupid of me. But what she did was still immature though. Sorry if I appeared extreme, I assure you I am not. I am not Rashna believe me.

    "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
    ~Sir Richard Francis Burton

    "I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
    ~RIBS
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #66 - March 11, 2010, 01:18 AM



    I'm not sure about that. Certainly under English and European law, one of the most basic rights of a child is to an education, and if the niqab / burqa, unlike a hijab or any other religious attire, impedes the quality of a childs education, it could be deemed as a denial of his / her right, or at least a corrosion of it to a degree.


    I take a classical liberal view of rights in that the law does not create rights, but merely recognizes/codifies them. In my opinion, all that shit in my country's Bill of Rights-- freedom of speech, right to bear arms, etc.-- I'd have them even if the Bill of Rights had never existed. It's just a question of whether or not the state recognizes I have them or not.

    fuck you
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #67 - March 11, 2010, 01:20 AM


    I see what you mean.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #68 - March 13, 2010, 12:58 AM

    banned, security reasons mostly. any guy or girl can "hide" themselves and invoke terror with the "excuse of religion"

    Closets after closets
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #69 - July 14, 2010, 03:47 PM

    Allowed - exceptions in cases where security comes into play (e.g. airports, banks etc, private businesses)

    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #70 - July 14, 2010, 08:49 PM

    Quote
    I kinda get it. She's reinforcing Islam's gender apartheid, and that is kinda personally offensive to me. It's one thing if you're wearing a niqab because of family or social pressure, quite another to implicitly or explicitly promote this crap on the internet


    Precisely Q Man ! "I like it/I am forced to like it so other sisters too should[implicitly/explicitly] like it!" or "It's good for me so it should be good for other Muslims too".

    You have a free choice to abuse drugs but don't have the right to recommend drug abuse.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #71 - July 14, 2010, 09:29 PM

    @billy:

    I'm not sure what a supply teacher is. Perhaps it is what we call a substitute teacher? In that case, was she even given a chance to form a bond with her students? I'm interested to know how old the children were that expressed their discomfort with a veiled teacher, whether they were influenced or biased by the attitudes of their parents and other teachers/administration in the school, and how much time they spent with the veiled teacher before deciding they were uncomfortable with her. I do agree that children need and deserve face-to-face interaction with their teachers and other adults of similar relationship. But I still think the better solution is to facilitate such an environment with the veiled woman instead of firing her.

    Children seek reassurance from an adult's facial expressions. Speech doesn't even come into it - there is an exchange of facial expression before everything else.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #72 - July 15, 2010, 01:21 AM

    Children seek reassurance from an adult's facial expressions. Speech doesn't even come into it - there is an exchange of facial expression before everything else.

    You completely missed the point Wink

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #73 - July 15, 2010, 02:20 AM

    @Rational1

    What about a job like a teacher? Would you be for allowing a niqabi to teach elementary kids in Canada?

    She should not be allowed to wear the niqab or any face covering while she is teaching kids in a public school. She is imposing her faith on non-Muslim children or the children of secular minded Muslims.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #74 - July 15, 2010, 02:26 AM

    ^ That would be the least of my problems with a Niqabi teacher.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #75 - July 15, 2010, 02:26 AM

    Well in Britain, nobody can work as a teacher wearing a niqab or burqa. A couple of years back a woman in Dewsbury (European Headquarters of Tableegi Jamaat) married to a Hizb ut Tahrir activist tried to sue the school that sacked her after she started wearing niqab. The tribunal threw her claim out. Very importantly, she was teaching Muslim and non Muslim children, and the parents of the Muslim children objected to her wearing the niqab as much as the kuffar mummy and daddys. A great ruling, that drew the line in the sand from the bginning.

    I am glad that they fired her. Niqab is very offensive. I can understand that parents were apprehensive of her. I wouldn't want to hire a secretary who wears the niqab or burqa.

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #76 - July 15, 2010, 05:52 PM

    the total ban of niqabs worked very fine in the ex communist countries like Yugoslavia and Kosovo to the extent that it vanished from the mainstream....  so yeah i support total bans of any religious advertisement, not only the Muslim ones.

    P.s. in the 500.000 people city of Prishtina where more than 90% are nominaly muslim , there is only one Kosovar woman with a full face niqab

    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #77 - July 16, 2010, 05:04 PM

    ban the burqa 67% of britons agree

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Burka-Ban-Two-Thirds-Believe-Islamic-Garment-Should-Be-Outlawed-Five-News-And-YouGov-Survey-Says/Article/201007315666275?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15666275_Burka_Ban:_Two-Thirds_Believe_Islamic_Garment_Should_Be_Outlawed,_Five_News_And_YouGov_Survey_Says

    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #78 - July 16, 2010, 05:07 PM

    I don't mean to be an ass and post my video here... but here it is. Let me know what you guys think.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4R30NMNcMk

    BTW I am 100% for the banning of the face veiling and I'm actually very surprised that the majority of you are not according to the poll.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #79 - July 16, 2010, 07:03 PM

    Excellent video! Please everyone, watch it! You have a nice voice/accent DARKEYED9 Smiley
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #80 - July 16, 2010, 08:21 PM

    would LOVE to hear the reasoning of the 8 who said it should be allowed, and
    the 20 who said it should be partially banned.  On the other hand, IF a woman
    TRULY WANTS to wear it.. well... hmmm... it does cause problems, for instance
    in a surgical theater, they certainly cant drive safely wearing one, i dunno..
    Guess its my western mindset.  Great video darkeyed   Afro  especially like
    the pic of that poor woman in the niqab in the water.  Notes ALL the flesh
    showing on the guys   finmad

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #81 - July 16, 2010, 08:57 PM

    I voted allowed simply because I see no reason for a government to restrict a person's right to wear what they choose.

    Whether or not it's an actual choice is a different story. I do not agree at all with what the niqab stands for, or how it's often forced on a woman and how oppressive it can be. I also agree there are some situations where it could compromise public safety, so maybe in that case I would be more on the side of a partial ban.

    However, in simply banning the niqab, I do not believe it will fix the problem. A man who forces his wife to wear the niqab will not suddenly allow her to take it off because it is banned. He will simply not allow her to leave the house, or to go to places where it is banned. Thus her oppression has become worse.

    Also, I'm thinking of the context of USA, supposedly the land of the free, where we enjoy freedom of religion and of expression. As long as public safety is not an issue, why shouldn't a woman who chooses to wear niqab enjoy those freedoms here?

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #82 - July 16, 2010, 10:06 PM

    *Raises hand* - Actually I voted "partially banned" early on but now into "banned" after some reading/consideration.

    In the entirety of the subject matter, I don't feel it is just about a woman's choice for a piece of clothing. It is the impact this has on herself, society, safety and values of developed nations that took years to acheive.

    As for the men who force their wives to wear it and may therefore not let them go out of the house: firstly I'm not sure it is practical for the men to do this and they are likely to give into the law; secondly France's ban include a bigger fine or jail term for such men if they try that and get caught.

    I know it all sounds cold blooded and harsh and mean and ugly and authoritative at a first glance of holding such an opinion .... but seriously, I don't think it is just coincidence that people like DARKEYED9 take the effort to make such a video or even Muslim groups call for such a ban. Perceptive is needed on such an issue ... perceptive/demographics/consequences of doing nothing/the wider picture/future projections/etc. It's not exactly an easy descision for Sarkozy and he is no silly guy coming from a country with a history of being Left.

    Anways, this is a good thread, nice to discuss and get other people's views. It is easy to lose perceptive in life, myself included!
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #83 - July 16, 2010, 10:12 PM

    I voted allowed simply because I see no reason for a government to restrict a person's right to wear what they choose.

    Whether or not it's an actual choice is a different story. I do not agree at all with what the niqab stands for, or how it's often forced on a woman and how oppressive it can be. I also agree there are some situations where it could compromise public safety, so maybe in that case I would be more on the side of a partial ban.

    However, in simply banning the niqab, I do not believe it will fix the problem. A man who forces his wife to wear the niqab will not suddenly allow her to take it off because it is banned. He will simply not allow her to leave the house, or to go to places where it is banned. Thus her oppression has become worse.

    Also, I'm thinking of the context of USA, supposedly the land of the free, where we enjoy freedom of religion and of expression. As long as public safety is not an issue, why shouldn't a woman who chooses to wear niqab enjoy those freedoms here?


    +1
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #84 - July 16, 2010, 10:16 PM

    i voted partially ban, ie anything covering the face. I've gone over my reasons in another long thread so im not copy pasta that again.

    Governments can restrict a persons right to wear what they choose. Try wearing a swastika t-shirt in Germany or Israel  

    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #85 - July 16, 2010, 10:17 PM

    I'm assuming most who voted "partially banned" meant banned in places such as banks, etc.. I would agree with such a ban but I voted "allowed" because I would, in principle, never want the state to interfere in a person's right to wear what they want, except when the liberty of others is being directly violated by it.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #86 - July 16, 2010, 10:21 PM

    See, we can all give an opinion and play nicely Smiley
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #87 - July 16, 2010, 10:23 PM

    for the sake of identification it should be banned. I even remember terrorist attacks in Egypt and rape stories because of niqab
    it is a horrible thing

    everyone should have there face for everyone to see so you know who you are dealing with
    You can't enter banks wearing Halloween mask or cycle helm. same thing with niqab it is the same exact thing.

    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #88 - July 16, 2010, 10:25 PM

    for the sake of identification it should be banned. I even remember terrorist attacks in Egypt and rape stories because of niqab
    it is a horrible thing

    everyone should have there face for everyone to see so you know who you are dealing with
    You can't enter banks wearing Halloween mask or cycle helm. same thing with niqab it is the same exact thing.


    Yeh it's exactly the same. But you are allowed to wear Halloween masks in most public places...

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #89 - July 16, 2010, 10:26 PM

    The government controlling peoples clothing choices makes me very uncomfortable. Give women all avenues to be free from imposition of such a garment, but if they don't have the will-power and dedication to break free of it, maybe its what they want.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

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