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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Niqabs/Burqa should be..
  • Allowed - 12 (23.5%)
  • Partially Banned - 23 (45.1%)
  • Banned - 16 (31.4%)
  • Total Voters: 51

 Topic: Ban Niqab?

 (Read 36930 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 9 10 1112 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #300 - July 18, 2010, 03:50 PM
    Do these women drive? FFS they're a danger to themselves and others if they do.

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #301 - July 18, 2010, 05:36 PM
    Quote from: abz on July 18, 2010, 03:50 PM
    Do these women drive? FFS they're a danger to themselves and others if they do.


    Shouldn't be allowed to drive.
    I can't wear a damn hat half the time
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #302 - July 18, 2010, 05:38 PM
    Quote from: hypocrucifier on July 18, 2010, 03:04 PM
    You will only hurt yourself and damage the monitor! Cheesy Hey! does this mean Egypt has had no cases of rape so far because women have been wearing burkhas or what have you?




    Actually Niqab was a tool for rape , men used to dress in niqab and rape women and that happened multiple times
    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #303 - July 18, 2010, 05:40 PM
    Quote from: Kod on July 18, 2010, 05:38 PM

    Actually Niqab was a tool for rape , men used to dress in niqab and rape women and that happened multiple times

     tickedoff

    As in a "get away" tool or one that they used to get access to places generally reserved for women?
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #304 - July 18, 2010, 11:26 PM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 18, 2010, 05:40 PM
    tickedoff

    As in a "get away" tool or one that they used to get access to places generally reserved for women?



    I heard the story I don't remember the details it was like 4-5 years ago but I think it was used as an access tool to get with women so it was probably used as an access tool to get out too
    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #305 - July 18, 2010, 11:36 PM
    Quote from: Jinn and Tonic on July 17, 2010, 02:36 PM
    I cant find my bloody response i wrote yesterday!
    So i will try again:

    Luthiel and HighOctane.

    I see your points clearly, (i.e. if it were banned, how many women would be
    forbidden to even leave their house) and that REALLY sucks!



    Hey JNT. Actually, you did not see my point. You missed it entirely. The fact that some women may be forbidden from leaving their homes was only meant to point out that a ban on niqab will not suddenly cause women to stop wearing it.

    The reason I do not support a ban on niqab is because that is a form of oppression itself. That would be putting limitations on someone's freedom to choose what they want to wear. I've said this before, and here it is again: I do not agree with what the niqab stands for, and I do not like the niqab. However, people should have the right to choose to wear it! It's as simple as that.

    Quote from: Jinn and Tonic on July 17, 2010, 02:36 PM
    On the other hand, we are talking western societies, who are NOT muslim,
    and why should they adhere to shariah, let alone muslim laws at all?

    Why should islam dictate to them what is acceptable for islam, and what
    isnt? 

    I know you may have relatives or friends who adhere to thie practice
    of the niqab, but sometimes i feel muslims need to get over themselves
    and realize they are GUESTS in another country, and their shariah doesnt
    mean crap to westerners.  Whats the point of fleeing to the west, if they
    are just going to implement the SAME damned laws there?

    No one is asking non-Muslims (or even Muslims for that matter) to adhere to sharia law. I don't even think sharia law has anything to do with this -- this is just a matter of people having the freedom to choose what to wear. Implementing sharia law is a completely different matter.
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #306 - July 19, 2010, 12:28 AM
    Quote from: Luthiel on July 18, 2010, 11:36 PM

    Hey JNT. Actually, you did not see my point. You missed it entirely. The fact that some women may be forbidden from leaving their homes was only meant to point out that a ban on niqab will not suddenly cause women to stop wearing it.

    The reason I do not support a ban on niqab is because that is a form of oppression itself. That would be putting limitations on someone's freedom to choose what they want to wear. I've said this before, and here it is again: I do not agree with what the niqab stands for, and I do not like the niqab. However, people should have the right to choose to wear it! It's as simple as that.
    No one is asking non-Muslims (or even Muslims for that matter) to adhere to sharia law. I don't even think sharia law has anything to do with this -- this is just a matter of people having the freedom to choose what to wear. Implementing sharia law is a completely different matter.


    As long as it is just a matter of dress ,there shouldn't be any problems at all respecting the freedom of choice, even if the under lying reasons are a bit dubious. I have no issues with this at all. But what if the Muslims asked for the sharia law to be implemented as a matter of choice? What's your take on this?



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #307 - July 19, 2010, 12:38 AM
    Quote from: hypocrucifier on July 19, 2010, 12:28 AM
    As long as it is just a matter of dress ,there shouldn't be any problems at all respecting the freedom of choice, even if the under lying reasons are a bit dubious. I have no issues with this at all. But what if the Muslims asked for the sharia law to be implemented as a matter of choice? What's your take on this?


    There is one law for all. If a President/PM is elected with a mandate to introduce it by the public, I'd be against it still.
    I support choice as long as it does not infringe on me
    Sharia law (depending ofc on what "type" is adopted) would almost certainty harm/infringe on another's liberty which is unacceptable.
    The difference with the burka is that it only really affects the wearer, my liberty is not harmed if someone else chooses to dress head to toe in clothes or go buck naked down the street.
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #308 - July 19, 2010, 12:39 AM
    In those countries where wearing the niqab is banned, such as in Belgium, is it also illegal to wear a scarf across the face in order to keep warm?
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #309 - July 19, 2010, 12:40 AM
    Quote from: hypocrucifier on July 19, 2010, 12:28 AM
    But what if the Muslims asked for the sharia law to be implemented as a matter of choice? What's your take on this?




    What law governs you is not a matter of personal choice. What you wear, is.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #310 - July 19, 2010, 12:41 AM
    I doubt it, the police should also no longer be allowed to wear helmets that cover face, after all I can no longer see them either
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #311 - July 19, 2010, 12:42 AM
    Quote from: ras111 on July 18, 2010, 03:06 PM
    It's not meant to be criticism..


    Quote from: ras111 on July 18, 2010, 02:41 PM
    People should be encouraged to point fingers and laugh at them as they should do to any puritan of any silly religion


    I think pointing fingers and laughing is an expression of criticism!


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #312 - July 19, 2010, 12:44 AM
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #313 - July 19, 2010, 12:45 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 19, 2010, 12:41 AM
    I doubt it, the police should also no longer be allowed to wear helmets that cover face, after all I can no longer see them either


    Exactly.

    I assume that the people here who want to ban the niqab probably wouldn't have a problem with someone wearing a scarf across the face in Winter. In which case, that just exposes their underlying prejudice against Muslims. That's the main reason they want it banned.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #314 - July 19, 2010, 12:48 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 19, 2010, 12:38 AM
    There is one law for all. If a President/PM is elected with a mandate to introduce it by the public, I'd be against it still.
    I support choice as long as it does not infringe on me
    Sharia law (depending ofc on what "type" is adopted) would almost certainty harm/infringe on another's liberty which is unacceptable.
    The difference with the burka is that it only really affects the wearer, my liberty is not harmed if someone else chooses to dress head to toe in clothes or go buck naked down the street.



    They demand it for themselves, not the rest of the population.Now your liberty is not affected.How does this change the situation? Would you support this limited application?


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #315 - July 19, 2010, 12:49 AM
    Quote from: J4m3z on July 19, 2010, 12:45 AM
    Exactly.

    I assume that the people here who want to ban the niqab probably wouldn't have a problem with someone wearing a scarf across the face in Winter. In which case, that just exposes their underlying prejudice against Muslims. That's the main reason they want it banned.


    Oh yes and lets not forget hoodies. I don't see all of peoples face when they wear it, especially if said hoody is really baggy.

    I agree, it'll be interesting hearing peoples response on this.
    Theoretically those who reject Muslim women hiding their face should reject it for everyone.
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #316 - July 19, 2010, 12:51 AM
    Quote from: hypocrucifier on July 19, 2010, 12:48 AM
    They demand it for themselves, not the rest of the population.Now your liberty is not affected.How does this change the situation? Would you support this limited application?


    As long as it does not contradict the law of land (as British law is supreme over anything else) or infringe on anyone else's or my liberty. Maybe but I still support the notion of one law for all personally,
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #317 - July 19, 2010, 12:56 AM
    Quote from: J4m3z on July 19, 2010, 12:45 AM
    Exactly.

    I assume that the people here who want to ban the niqab probably wouldn't have a problem with someone wearing a scarf across the face in Winter. In which case, that just exposes their underlying prejudice against Muslims. That's the main reason they want it banned.


    LOL! You don't see people wearing winter dresses in summer. I think it is more to do with what it symbolizes. To the do-gooders--enslavement of women,to others - a nasty finger in your face attitude


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #318 - July 19, 2010, 01:07 AM
    Quote from: Meredith on July 19, 2010, 12:51 AM
    As long as it does not contradict the law of land (as British law is supreme over anything else) or infringe on anyone else's or my liberty. Maybe but I still support the notion of one law for all personally,


    Both of us agree on this, but the Muslims don't and feel aggrieved!Unanimously they feel they should have 'the sharia', so as a minority group should the majority trample on their 'rights' to choose which law system they want to follow, even if it means it goes against many of the laws of the British law system? Remember, it doesn't affect the rest of the population in any way.


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #319 - July 19, 2010, 01:11 AM
    Quote from: hypocrucifier on July 19, 2010, 01:07 AM
    Both of us agree on this, but the Muslims don't and feel aggrieved!Unanimously they feel they should have 'the sharia', so as a minority group should the majority trample on their 'rights' to choose which law system they want to follow, even if it means it goes against many of the laws of the British law system? Remember, it doesn't affect the rest of the population in any way.


    Well everyone would have to agree with it. Including the Muslims because if they ever were to get their own courts to deal with petty issues like divorce or marriage, the foundation would have to be an acceptance that British law is supreme and as such, can overrule their judgements if needed.

    It needs to not be contradictory to British law to be acceptable to me as Parliament is supreme. Parliamentary sovereignty is a fundamental part of the UK constitution
    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence

  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #320 - July 19, 2010, 02:09 AM
    Quote from: hypocrucifier on July 19, 2010, 12:28 AM
    As long as it is just a matter of dress ,there shouldn't be any problems at all respecting the freedom of choice, even if the under lying reasons are a bit dubious. I have no issues with this at all. But what if the Muslims asked for the sharia law to be implemented as a matter of choice? What's your take on this?

    Just as I said, implementing sharia law is a completely different matter. If we really want to discuss it, I think it should be a different thread. But I would not be in favor of allowing sharia law to exist as an "alternative" to the existing laws of a country.
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #321 - July 19, 2010, 11:26 AM
    Quote from: hypocrucifier on July 19, 2010, 12:56 AM
    LOL! You don't see people wearing winter dresses in summer. I think it is more to do with what it symbolizes. To the do-gooders--enslavement of women,to others - a nasty finger in your face attitude


    And what does it symbolize exactly? Because I tell you what if I was a free Muslim woman and I chose to wear the niqab and you came up to me and said it symbolizes oppression what do you seriously expect I will say to you? :/
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #322 - July 19, 2010, 11:41 AM
    Quote from: Luthiel on July 19, 2010, 02:09 AM
    Just as I said, implementing sharia law is a completely different matter. If we really want to discuss it, I think it should be a different thread. But I would not be in favor of allowing sharia law to exist as an "alternative" to the existing laws of a country.


    too late in the uk, sharia law already exists for civic cases.

    I knew a muslim girl who wanted to get a divorce from her scumbag husband. I don't know all the details, suffice to say she would have to go to this sharia court to get her marriage annulled, her husband didn't want to give her a divorce, but she knew the guy at the sharia court would get her going through all manner of hoops to grant this and the drama and community pressure it would bear upon her, she couldn't do it. Id wager a civil court could have granted her a quickie divorce bearing her domestic violence circumstances.

    lets look at the threads here.  separate schools, separate laws, separate clothes, a complete separate way of life. In the name of freedom and equal rights. I wonder who really benefits?
     
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #323 - July 19, 2010, 11:44 AM
    Separate schools and laws are indeed a sad state of affairs but they have nothing to do with freedom or equal rights.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #324 - July 19, 2010, 11:48 AM
    of course it does it's the freedom of choice you've been trumpeting, the very freedom that in your mind allows the a Muslim women and others to obscure their face the freedom of choice to wear a niqab or not
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #325 - July 19, 2010, 12:06 PM
    Wearing what you want is a freedom because it does not infringe upon the rights of others. But having your own law is unjust to the rest of society and having your own religious school can be unjust to the children that go there.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #326 - July 19, 2010, 12:11 PM
    But having your own law is unjust to the rest of society and having your own religious school can be unjust to the children that go there.

    why?
    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #327 - July 19, 2010, 12:31 PM
    Children should receive a fair and unbiased education. This requires that it be secular.

    The law must be the same for all. If there is more than one law to choose from, then one law will be more attractive than the other. Why should one set of citizens be given a friendlier law than another set of citizens? That's not fair.
    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #328 - July 19, 2010, 12:52 PM
    Children should receive a fair and unbiased education. This requires that it be secular.

    I'm not positive about what I'm going to say about private education, and am happy to be corrected with verifiable facts. Hindu and Christians schools as a requirement I'm sure teach the national syllabus, with has subjects like music and re and biology and theories of evolution.. I would expect those faith schools to have a focus and slant on their perspective religions and if that's want parents want than that is the choice of the parent. they can go to private or public school. The thing is what happens when they get out of school into the real world? do they separate or integrate? From personal experience I'd say the later, as the people i have known that have gone to faith based schools integrate into their wider communities. when they get into the real working world they have the freedom to practice their religion and yet work in multi-faith environments. they have the opportunity to make up their own mind.


    Equality under the law sounds reasonable, but the fact is how those laws are interpreted. Otherwise we'd only have 20 laws which would be absolute and could not be subject to interpretation and no case laws would be relevant.

    why should a woman wearing a burqa be able to infringe my rights? I have the right to live in safety, I should have the right to be able to see everyone's face who sees mine.

     in regards to fairness. It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.


    If you ask me to define anything i will slap you with my pimp hand and make you cry like a biatch.

    Nick Naylor: "I didn't have to. I proved that you're wrong, and if you're wrong I'm right."~ Thank you for Smoking

    Perspective
  • Re: Ban Niqab?
     Reply #329 - July 19, 2010, 12:57 PM
    Quote from: hypocrucifier on July 19, 2010, 12:28 AM
    As long as it is just a matter of dress ,there shouldn't be any problems at all respecting the freedom of choice, even if the under lying reasons are a bit dubious. I have no issues with this at all. But what if the Muslims asked for the sharia law to be implemented as a matter of choice? What's your take on this?




    But again.. is this "cultural" or "religous" re: niqab?  As I understand it, it is not even
    a dictate in the qaran or ahadeeths.
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
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