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 Topic: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?

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  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #60 - March 16, 2010, 11:43 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 16, 2010, 05:56 PM
    yep, like Billy said.

    Quote from: billy on March 16, 2010, 05:33 PM
    You're speaking as a dissenter from Islam who has to a greater or lesser extent mentally freed yourself from Islam's injunctions. To the people who enforce the ferocity of Islamic seriousness, the texts are not powerless. Family, friends and society have raised them to fear the power of the Quran and all that is associated with it. It is collectively a source of such power that they can be intellectually, socially, spiritually and emotionally paralysed by it.

    was that really how you felt as a muslim?  You lived in fear of islamic seriousness?

  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #61 - March 17, 2010, 01:31 AM
    It's been very interesting reading what you had to say about it guys. I don't think I can add anything more to this thread. This is why I love CEMB. The level of sophistication and civility of debate is matchless.
    BTW Iblis, you have a thorough understanding and a unique perspective on the issue. So far this month, you're definitely my POTM.

    Quote from: Iblis on March 16, 2010, 02:30 PM
    I think it's real. Some people hate Islam, solely because its Islam. Rashna and Kaiwai on this forum are good examples of that. Every other religion is A-Okay, EXCEPT Islam. And this focused hatred on this one religion extends to how they look at Muslims and consider the people as demonic manifestations of this evil force. To them anything associated with Islam is inherently evil and any achievement of Muslims will automatically be credited to outside influence rather than genuine merit or good intentions.

    That being said, the problem is the word it self and what it's meaning implies. But basically its used to silence and tar critics of Islam and Islamism in a similar way "anti-semitism" is used to silence the critics of Israel.

    +1

    Quote from: DH on March 16, 2010, 06:29 PM
    And having done that why would they want to continue to associate themselves at any level with a belief system that absolutely rejects these things? Why would they, furthermore, wish to imbue their offspring with any hint of a "Muslim" identity?

    Iblis' reply sufficed.
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #62 - March 17, 2010, 01:36 AM

    What am I, chopped liver  Huh?

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #63 - March 17, 2010, 01:51 AM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on March 17, 2010, 01:31 AM
    This is why I love CEMB. The level of sophistication and civility of debate is matchless.


    Yeah, it's pretty fuckin nuts isn't it? I've participated in internet forums since 2003, and this one is easily my favorite for a variety of reasons, the level of debate/discussion being a big one. It's the only one I bother posting on nowadays. It was here and a gun forum, but although the gun forum was good, I just got tired of it. Lots of cool and smart people there, but way too many boneheads and generally nasty/ignorant fucks. So now it's here exclusively-- Islam, atheism/secularism, general politics/philosophy, anal sex, CEMB forum has it all! If I'm gonna fritter away time on the internet, might as well be here.
    fuck you
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #64 - March 17, 2010, 01:54 AM
    Quote from: Q-Man on March 17, 2010, 01:51 AM
    boneheads and generally nasty/ignorant fucks


    I am who I am.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #65 - March 17, 2010, 01:56 AM
    Quote from: billy on March 17, 2010, 01:36 AM
    What am I, chopped liver  Huh?

    Far from it actually. You're great billy and extremely well-versed on the subject of political Islam in general. I truly believe that. I just thought Iblis made some good points in this thread.  
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #66 - March 17, 2010, 01:58 AM
     Grin

    IA, I was just being a clown, thanks for the kind words though  Afro
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #67 - March 17, 2010, 01:58 AM
    Quote from: Q-Man on March 17, 2010, 01:51 AM
    Yeah, it's pretty fuckin nuts isn't it? I've participated in internet forums since 2003, and this one is easily my favorite for a variety of reasons, the level of debate/discussion being a big one. It's the only one I bother posting on nowadays. It was here and a gun forum, but although the gun forum was good, I just got tired of it. Lots of cool and smart people there, but way too many boneheads and generally nasty/ignorant fucks. So now it's here exclusively-- Islam, atheism/secularism, general politics/philosophy, anal sex, CEMB forum has it all! If I'm gonna fritter away time on the internet, might as well be here.


    Do you think the unspoken homo erotic tension has something to do with it too?  whistling2

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #68 - March 17, 2010, 02:09 AM
    Quote from: billy on March 17, 2010, 01:58 AM
    Do you think the unspoken homo erotic tension has something to do with it too?  whistling2

    Absolutely. In fact I'm hoping that Blackdog's idea realizes, you know the one about all of us meeting up for a weekend of sex and drugs. I suggest renting one of those FLDS compounds. Can't wait !
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #69 - March 17, 2010, 02:17 AM
    Quote from: billy on March 17, 2010, 01:58 AM
    Do you think the unspoken homo erotic tension has something to do with it too?  whistling2


    Yeah, sure, why not?

    There are times I really wish I was bi (not gay, though, I'd hate to give up women)-- my best friend here in Philly is bi and he's got it made. Unfortunately there's a certain level of attraction to men that has to outweigh your personal hang-ups about it, and I'm afraid it's jut not there for me.
    fuck you
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #70 - March 17, 2010, 06:21 AM
    Quote from: Iblis on March 16, 2010, 06:30 PM
    Because they aren't some dipshit white supremacist bigot who wants to kick all Muslims out of the west perhaps?


    Are there any of those around here?

    Quote
    But seriously, because they might want to remain cultural and ethnic muslims because thats what their heritage is. No different than why many Irish or Italians remain catholics or secular Jews still call themselves jews.


    Firstly "Jew", like "Arab",  does have an ethnic component. Although the Jewish national identity has always been intimately bound up with their religion it is not - unlike "Muslim" - entirely predicated on religious belief and practice. A jew can be an atheist and still plausibly call themselves a "Jew". This explains why the Jews have managed to do what Muslims have found so difficult ie create a secular society in the middle east. As far as Catholics are concerned it can be said that Roman Catholic doctrine is whatever the incumbent Pope says it is. Unlike the Koran it is not set in stone. If a particular pope asserted that his flock must live by Mosaic law and seek to impose it on non-catholics, his followers would have sound theological reasons for rejecting this position by referring to the writings of St Paul. Islam provides its followers with no such theological "get out clauses" from theocracy. This explains why Christianity in general has proved more successful than Islam in reconciling itself to secular government.

    Quote
    People hold contradictory beliefs all the time, why should Muslims be any different?


    Because the Koran says so.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #71 - March 17, 2010, 08:20 AM
    Quote from: Q-Man on March 17, 2010, 02:17 AM
    Yeah, sure, why not?

    There are times I really wish I was bi (not gay, though, I'd hate to give up women)-- my best friend here in Philly is bi and he's got it made. Unfortunately there's a certain level of attraction to men that has to outweigh your personal hang-ups about it, and I'm afraid it's jut not there for me.


     Cheesy

    It makes extra funny to read that when you have Iblis as your avatar.
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #72 - March 17, 2010, 08:20 AM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on March 17, 2010, 02:09 AM
    Absolutely. In fact I'm hoping that Blackdog's idea realizes, you know the one about all of us meeting up for a weekend of sex and drugs. I suggest renting one of those FLDS compounds. Can't wait !


    It will make a great novel! Like a modern day Red Room!
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #73 - March 17, 2010, 05:14 PM
    Quote from: DH on March 17, 2010, 06:21 AM
    This explains why the Jews have managed to do what Muslims have found so difficult ie create a secular society in the middle east.

    I don't think Israel is the best example of a secular country.

    The Hatikva says:
    As long as the Jewish spirit is yearning deep in the heart,
    With eyes turned toward the East, looking toward Zion,
    Then our hope - the two-thousand-year-old hope - will not be lost:
    To be a free people in our land,
    The land of Zion and Jerusalem

    Israel has the best record of human rights, press, personal, political and religious freedoms in the Middle East. But it is a Jewish state after all. Their laws state that anybody who is of the Jewish faith (even s/he had converted just years ago) has more rights and benefits than the non-Jewish Palestinian who has been living there all his/her life.


    Quote from: DH on March 17, 2010, 06:21 AM
    Because the Koran says so.

    And why do you expect every Muslim to follow the Quran to the fullest? do you expect every Catholic to be against gay marriage?
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #74 - March 17, 2010, 06:26 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on March 17, 2010, 05:14 PM
    Israel has the best record of human rights, press, personal, political and religious freedoms in the Middle East. But it is a Jewish state after all. Their laws state that anybody who is of the Jewish faith (even s/he had converted just years ago) has more rights and benefits than the non-Jewish Palestinian who has been living there all his/her life.

    I would have thought that would be illegal?
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  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #75 - March 17, 2010, 06:31 PM
    What would be illegal ?
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #76 - March 17, 2010, 07:06 PM
    "I would have thought that would be illegal?"

    In Israel there is the right of return, where any person of Jewish extraction can emigrate to it.  Alot of Russians did just that in the 90's and there even cases where some of these went around beating up orothdox Jews.  Lately they seemed to have discovered tribes who claim Jewish ancestry in the North East of India and they have started to emigrate as well.
    I read somewhere that  it's one of the ways, Israelis use to keep up population levels with the Israeli Arabs.
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #77 - March 17, 2010, 07:52 PM


    Quote
    "I would have thought that would be illegal?"

    In Israel there is the right of return, where any person of Jewish extraction can emigrate to it.  Alot of Russians did just that in the 90's and there even cases where some of these went around beating up orothdox Jews.  Lately they seemed to have discovered tribes who claim Jewish ancestry in the North East of India and they have started to emigrate as well.
    I read somewhere that  it's one of the ways, Israelis use to keep up population levels with the Israeli Arabs.


    It really doesn't matter how many millions of Jews you import from other countries it is just impossible to compete with Muslim Population of Israel

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

    Religion              Population                  Total
    Jewish                5,435,900                    76.0%
    Muslim                1,142,000                    15.9%
    Christian             120,000                        1.8%
    Druze                  115,200                            1.7%
    unclassified         302,400                       4.6%



    Year             Muslim Percentage
    1955        8.80%
    1972        11.58%
    1995             15.21%
    2000           16.73%
     
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html

    So by importing people in to Israel, They can not keep up with the demography..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #78 - March 17, 2010, 07:54 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on March 17, 2010, 07:52 PM
    Year             Muslim Percentage
    1955        8.80%
    1972        11.58%
    1995             15.21%
    2000           16.73%
     


    Someones been gettin it on.  whistling2
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #79 - March 17, 2010, 09:45 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on March 17, 2010, 06:31 PM
    What would be illegal ?

    to legally disciminate by religion
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  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #80 - March 18, 2010, 01:04 AM
    of course it exists. There are huge anti-muslim movements all over the world. However as someone mentioned earlier, it is not automatically "islamaphobia" when you are looking at Islam through a critical analysis 
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #81 - March 18, 2010, 01:09 AM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 17, 2010, 09:45 PM
    to legally disciminate by religion

    Of couuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurse (Cenk style  grin12)
    It is a Jewish state. Their constitution says so. And when it comes to immigration laws they really do discriminate. It's called Aliyah.
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #82 - March 18, 2010, 05:49 AM
    Quote from: iraqi atheist
    I don't think Israel is the best example of a secular country.


    Name a Muslim country that gives as good an approximation.

    Quote
    And why do you expect every Muslim to follow the Quran to the fullest?


    I don't. The Koran does. That is the problem. This would, of course, NOT be a problem if the Koran did not espouse the unpleasant doctrines that it does and no need for this site and others like it.

    Quote
    do you expect every Catholic to be against gay marriage?


    I am sure there are a minority of catholics, especially homosexual ones, who have managed to delude themselves that God is perfectly OK with sodomy. We also have people calling themselves "gay Muslims". Why people would want to continue to associate themselves with religions which are so fundamentally antagonistic towards their sexuality is beyond me.
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #83 - March 18, 2010, 08:32 AM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on March 18, 2010, 01:09 AM
    Of couuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurse (Cenk style  grin12)
    It is a Jewish state. Their constitution says so. And when it comes to immigration laws they really do discriminate. It's called Aliyah.

    So why havent the UN called on this :
    Quote
    Their laws state that anybody who is of the Jewish faith has more rights and benefits than the non-Jewish Palestinian who has been living there all his/her life

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  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #84 - March 18, 2010, 03:15 PM
    Quote from: DH on March 18, 2010, 05:49 AM
    Name a Muslim country that gives as good an approximation.

    As of now, none. Historically, you could argue for Turkey or Iraq 1957-1968.


    Quote from: DH on March 18, 2010, 05:49 AM
    I don't. The Koran does. That is the problem. This would, of course, NOT be a problem if the Koran did not espouse the unpleasant doctrines that it does and no need for this site and others like it.

    Again, we can't assume that all Muslim follow the Quran literally.


    Quote from: DH on March 18, 2010, 05:49 AM
    I am sure there are a minority of catholics, especially homosexual ones, who have managed to delude themselves that God is perfectly OK with sodomy. We also have people calling themselves "gay Muslims". Why people would want to continue to associate themselves with religions which are so fundamentally antagonistic towards their sexuality is beyond me.

    Agreed 100% but let's let people label themselves. If a gay individual wants to be recognized as a Muslim, it's up to them.


    Quote from: IsLame on March 18, 2010, 08:32 AM
    So why havent the UN called on this :

    On this particular note, I don't know. But generally, when it comes to condemning Israel, its always the US vetoes. 
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #85 - March 18, 2010, 05:20 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on March 18, 2010, 03:15 PM
    On this particular note, I don't know. But generally, when it comes to condemning Israel, its always the US vetoes. 

    Whether the US vetoes or not, its still openly contravenes UN conventions on All Forms of Racial Discrimination

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  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #86 - March 18, 2010, 05:35 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on March 16, 2010, 01:21 PM
    Is it real?
    What is it?
    Is it wrong?
    What is the reasoning behind your answer to the above question?



    The problem is that the word "Islamophobia" is not simply used for fear of/dislike of Islam. It is often used to cover all sorts of hate, bigotry and irrational fear towards Muslims.

    Of course one can argue that people who use the word in this way are technically wrong - and that is quite true. But it is the reality of the matter is that it is commonly used in this way.

    There is no doubt that many Muslims use it to stifle any criticism of Islam.

    But although linguistically the term is not used correctly - there is also no doubt that what some people used it for (bigotry, hate and irrational fear directed at Muslims) is very real.
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #87 - March 18, 2010, 05:52 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 18, 2010, 05:20 PM
    Whether the US vetoes or not, its still openly contravenes UN conventions on All Forms of Racial Discrimination

    But the UN can't do anything about it really. It's not just Israel, many countries still have fucked-up laws.
  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #88 - March 18, 2010, 06:01 PM
    Well they can start off my naming and shaming all the countries that violates its laws.  Then other nations could threaten with milary strikes in the worst cases, or begin sanctions or at very least we might be able to see who breaks the most laws, and countries might even start bartering their violations e.g. we'll fix ours if you fix yours - type of thing..
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  • Re: Islamophobia - what are your thoughts?
     Reply #89 - March 18, 2010, 06:13 PM
    They can't do that to Israel. It's backed by the blind support of the US.
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