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Theme Changer

 Topic: About your videos

 (Read 57979 times)
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  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #210 - March 17, 2010, 05:27 PM

    i'll leave simple questions for simple folk then!


    So you refuse to answer? Is that because you are fully aware of the implications of your reply?  Yes or no, would you allow your own 9 year old daughter to marry a man in his 50s? Not 1300 years ago, TODAY.

    If you cannot be open enough to answer a simple question regarding your religion then you are not being honest to yourself about your faith.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #211 - March 17, 2010, 05:35 PM

    I'll answer for you....

    No, you would not let your 9 year old daughter marry a man in his 50's because the idea of a 9 year old girl experiencing an adult penis inside her body repulses you.  You are however willing to push it to the back of your mind and reassure yourself "things were different back then" in order to excuse the behaviour of your "prophet", and yet you aren't able to explain to yourself HOW things were different back then in order to make it acceptable.

    How's that?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #212 - March 17, 2010, 05:45 PM

    complexity is life a simple yes and no shows you are not really grappling with the complexity of human society, behaviour, responsibilities, emotional impulses etc etc.  In the UK right now...there are probably many aspects of Islam that could be incorporated.  This would not be the first I would select.  Though if you wish a mature discussion of ideas.  Let me say that sexual maturity is a physical feature, emotional maturity closely related but not contingent.  our rule of thumb here is legally children can be sexually active from 13 although by law we adopt 16.  Sexual activity into ones twilight years may extend into the 90's.  Again as a rule of thumb we rarely object to sexual activity from and to these ages.  A woman of 40+ marrying a boy barely out of his teens is regarded negatively and almost predatory whereas a man of 40+ and a teenage girlfriend less so.  Personally I favour some greater degree of equality.  The older female is of course the case of Khadeja.  So coming close to your demand for a yes or no.  In the UK under present social conditions I would favour a range of 16-60 as a sexually active category and suggest that whilst the norm will inevitably bunch around unions in the 20-40 age group (ie 20 year gap maximum norm) the anomalies could be loving unions and needn't be and indeed are not illegal under present UK law.    


    OK so you would not approve a 53 year old man marrying a 9 year old girl in the UK today and one can selectively choose when a particular example of the prophet is to be followed or not depending on the circumstances?

    Who decides when the circumstances/context/time etc... are right or wrong to accept or reject a particular example of the prophet?

    What would you say to the very many Muslims who say time/conditions/context - particularly related to the Kuffar - are irrelevant and the prophet's example must be followed  wherever and whenever - and one should strive to change/overthrow any society that does not allow following the example of the prophet in every way - or does not rule according to the Qur'an and Sunnah?
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #213 - March 17, 2010, 05:50 PM

    an agnostic doesnt know if there is a God or not is that so?

    look it up if you dont know, I am not here to as your dictionary..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #214 - March 17, 2010, 05:57 PM

    Zebedee what morality have you derived from your philosophical enquiries?


    Well, pertaining to what may be called 'legal ethics' rather than virtue ethics; an objectively applicable basis for morality.

    It's not a new idea. The default 'state of nature' has been talked about by the Enlightenment philosophers.

    But just to clarify: I am not committing the naturalistic fallacy and asserting that simply because this is or may be the natural state of humans that therefore it is moral. I'm saying that it is a valid basis for morality as, for one thing, it is the state in which no individual has committed any infraction against any other and so no recompense is owed by one party to another. It is a state of moral equilibrium, which is the default state between all individuals within society.

    A key premise of this framework is that it is only in response to an infraction committed against another person that justifies the abridgement of a person's rights or freedom.  For example, if you steal someone and get caught, then you have to pay financial reparations.    For example, according to my argument, a person or authority cannot arbitrarily dictate that all or certain people have to pay some portion of their own wealth to others.

    That is another key premise, the moral injunctions may not be arbitrary. A good example of such an arbitrary moral standard is the permissibility of slavery. The slave in question has done nothing wrong, committed no infraction against any person's rights and yet they themselves have had their freedom of movement, property rights, etc., violated in being taken as a slave. According to my moral standard, slavery is not morally permissible.

    That's the essential basis of it. This, I believe, precludes the assertion of arbitrary and unjust moral injunctions which, in fact, permit violations of the rights of others: e.g., the right to take a person as a slave.

    I'd also like to clarify what I mean by 'rights.' The term really just refers to certain freedoms which cannot be abridged without justification. You see, it is not the freedom to live or to own property that requires justification, it is only the curtailment of these freedoms that needs to be justified.

    All 'rights' are simply aspects of the same thing; i.e., the right not have one's freedoms arbitrarily dissolved or restricted.

    I may well have missed a thing or two but that's the basic outline. Feel free to ask me about it or challenge me on it.
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #215 - March 17, 2010, 05:57 PM

    look it up if you dont know, I am not here to as your dictionary..


    Are you an afairyist and asmurfist too? Smiley

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #216 - March 17, 2010, 06:11 PM

    yep

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #217 - March 17, 2010, 06:13 PM

    Hey Zaebedee - have you done an intro post yet?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #218 - March 17, 2010, 06:22 PM

    Hey Zaebedee - have you done an intro post yet?


    Nope.

    I'll get round to it eventually. Smiley
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #219 - March 17, 2010, 06:24 PM

    Just do a quick one, and expand on it later.  What you waiting for? Eid?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #220 - March 17, 2010, 06:36 PM

    an agnostic doesnt know if there is a God or not is that so?


    A silly thing to say...

    No one knows if there is a God.

    An agnostic does not know that there is a God anymore than a Muslim does. Knowing comes from knowledge, knowledge comes from evidence. A Muslim does not know by evidence but by speculation; he does not know but only assumes.

    I thought I'd clarify that as your use of words makes it sound as if Muslims or religious people have the market-corner on knowledge of God or his existence. No one really does.
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #221 - March 17, 2010, 06:46 PM

    Just do a quick one, and expand on it later.  What you waiting for? Eid?


    Ok, done. : )
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #222 - March 17, 2010, 06:53 PM

    lakum dinukum billy. 


    lakum dinukum, 'You religion is for you and mine is for me"

    I always found that to be such a platitude, with with that undertow of the obvious claiming profundity, a quintessentially Islamic piece of rhetoric. Its also a bit of disingenuity, because the speaker often really thinks, underneath it all, 'My religion for me, and my religion for you too", especially when they posit that British society could do with a dose of it to solve all their problems.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #223 - March 17, 2010, 07:03 PM

    Yes, but that'd be the naturalistic fallacy right there.


    Morality isn't derived from evolution, any more than theistic morality is derived from the process by which God allegedly created humans. Evolution is just the process by which we came into being. It doesn't really have much to say regarding what is moral.

    Morality is derived from philosophical inquiry. The natural process by which we came about is not and can not form the basis of ethics.


    How did morality come about then - please give a detailed description. I honestly really want to know. What enabled us to be capable of philosophical enquiry. Was it evolution or was it something else? Everything we are made of comes from evolution from an Atheists standpoint. Are you saying evolution is not responsible for our capability of philosophical enquiry? And if it is, why would/should I live my life by anything other than what evolution is about - survival of the fittest and a propagation of my genes?

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #224 - March 17, 2010, 07:05 PM

    You should know better, you used to be an atheist.  Is that what you did?  


    No, it was one of the arguments that made me reach the conclusion that Atheism was a bit silly.

    I beleive that every single human being was given a soul and that our soul is responsible for our morality. Some keep their soul more pure than others.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #225 - March 17, 2010, 07:13 PM

    lakum dinukum, 'You religion is for you and mine is for me"


    "Revealed" in Mecca when Mo only had a few followers.
    Once he got to Medina and had an army it changed to "No other religion will be tolerated" etc Smiley

    How did morality come about then - please give a detailed description. I honestly really want to know.


    Morality DID evolve, it is just group survival.


    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #226 - March 17, 2010, 07:14 PM

    So you refuse to answer? Is that because you are fully aware of the implications of your reply?  Yes or no, would you allow your own 9 year old daughter to marry a man in his 50s? Not 1300 years ago, TODAY.

    If you cannot be open enough to answer a simple question regarding your religion then you are not being honest to yourself about your faith.

     wtf
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #227 - March 17, 2010, 07:14 PM

    No, it was one of the arguments that made me reach the conclusion that Atheism was a bit silly.

    I beleive that every single human being was given a soul and that our soul is responsible for our morality. Some keep their soul more pure than others.


    Atheism is merely accepting that we have no evidence for God, and just like Godzilla we should not assume it exists without evidence.  I don't believe in anything else I have no evidence for, why should God be an exception?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #228 - March 17, 2010, 07:15 PM


    Morality DID evolve, it is just group survival.



    cheers, but seriously, do you beleive that group survival accounts for the (sometimes beautifal) morality that humans posess? In addition what made me almost cry when my son was born. Where does that feeling of humitly when I look up at the stars or when I learn about the beauty of the universe come from? What makes me feel pain that some people will end up in hell (according to my beliefs)? Are these also explained by group survival?

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #229 - March 17, 2010, 07:22 PM

    Wow, it never fails to amaze me how desperate and in denial the true believer is. Sad.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #230 - March 17, 2010, 07:22 PM

    So you refuse to answer? Is that because you are fully aware of the implications of your reply?  Yes or no, would you allow your own 9 year old daughter to marry a man in his 50s? Not 1300 years ago, TODAY.

    If you cannot be open enough to answer a simple question regarding your religion then you are not being honest to yourself about your faith.


    I have actually stated what i think best suits uk society today and it fits what is legally sanctioned... dont get your problem.  I certainly do not have one.  Perhaps if I state it again nice and slow this time please

    A simple yes and no shows you are not really grappling with the complexity of human society, behaviour, responsibilities, emotional impulses etc etc.  In the UK right now...there are probably many aspects of Islam that could be incorporated.  This would not be the first I would select.  Though if you wish a mature discussion of ideas.  Let me say that sexual maturity is a physical feature, emotional maturity closely related but not contingent.  our rule of thumb here is legally children can be sexually active from 13 although by law we adopt 16.  Sexual activity into ones twilight years may extend into the 90's.  Again as a rule of thumb we rarely object to sexual activity from and to these ages.  A woman of 40+ marrying a boy barely out of his teens is regarded negatively and almost predatory whereas a man of 40+ and a teenage girlfriend less so.  Personally I favour some greater degree of equality.  The older female is of course the case of Khadeja.  So coming close to your demand for a yes or no.  In the UK under present social conditions I would favour a range of 16-60 as a sexually active category and suggest that whilst the norm will inevitably bunch around unions in the 20-40 age group (ie 20 year gap maximum norm) the anomalies could be loving unions and needn't be and indeed are not illegal under present UK law.
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #231 - March 17, 2010, 07:23 PM

    Wow, it never fails to amaze me how desperate and in denial the true believer is. Sad.


    So terribly sad.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #232 - March 17, 2010, 07:25 PM

    Atheism is merely accepting that we have no evidence for God, and just like Godzilla we should not assume it exists without evidence.  I don't believe in anything else I have no evidence for, why should God be an exception?


    so from where do you personally derive your morality if I may ask
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #233 - March 17, 2010, 07:29 PM

    OK so you would not approve a 53 year old man marrying a 9 year old girl in the UK today and one can selectively choose when a particular example of the prophet is to be followed or not depending on the circumstances?

    Who decides when the circumstances/context/time etc... are right or wrong to accept or reject a particular example of the prophet?

    What would you say to the very many Muslims who say time/conditions/context - particularly related to the Kuffar - are irrelevant and the prophet's example must be followed  wherever and whenever - and one should strive to change/overthrow any society that does not allow following the example of the prophet in every way - or does not rule according to the Qur'an and Sunnah?

    I don't know I hadnt thought too much about what I would say to them.  I don't know any personally.
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #234 - March 17, 2010, 07:31 PM

    I have actually stated what i think best suits uk society today and it fits what is legally sanctioned... dont get your problem.  I certainly do not have one.  Perhaps if I state it again nice and slow this time please

    A simple yes and no shows you are not really grappling with the complexity of human society, behaviour, responsibilities, emotional impulses etc etc.  In the UK right now...there are probably many aspects of Islam that could be incorporated.  This would not be the first I would select.  Though if you wish a mature discussion of ideas.  Let me say that sexual maturity is a physical feature, emotional maturity closely related but not contingent.  our rule of thumb here is legally children can be sexually active from 13 although by law we adopt 16.  Sexual activity into ones twilight years may extend into the 90's.  Again as a rule of thumb we rarely object to sexual activity from and to these ages.  A woman of 40+ marrying a boy barely out of his teens is regarded negatively and almost predatory whereas a man of 40+ and a teenage girlfriend less so.  Personally I favour some greater degree of equality.  The older female is of course the case of Khadeja.  So coming close to your demand for a yes or no.  In the UK under present social conditions I would favour a range of 16-60 as a sexually active category and suggest that whilst the norm will inevitably bunch around unions in the 20-40 age group (ie 20 year gap maximum norm) the anomalies could be loving unions and needn't be and indeed are not illegal under present UK law.


    lightrays simply can't reconcile the supposed timeless immutability of Islam and the fact that the Prophet Mohammad sexually penetrated a nine year old girl when he was in his 50's like a common, grubby paedophile.

    Hey lightrays, if you are willing to relativise the prophet's behaviour, aren't you denying that he is insaan al kamil, the perfect man for eternity towards whom all else must aspire to emulate? Surely then all of Islam can be relativised, including the Quran and hadith?


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #235 - March 17, 2010, 07:33 PM


    What would you say to the very many Muslims who say time/conditions/context - particularly related to the Kuffar - are irrelevant and the prophet's example must be followed  wherever and whenever - and one should strive to change/overthrow any society that does not allow following the example of the prophet in every way - or does not rule according to the Qur'an and Sunnah?


    however i have read into what you say that these are narrow minded and their interpretation includes lots of pain.  If however you actually mean something more subtle well then I actually subscribe to the timeless applicability of the sharia, in striving to change society, following the example of the prophet/  So I would probably say to myself....Damn you look good, just for fun
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #236 - March 17, 2010, 07:33 PM

    cheers, but seriously, do you beleive that group survival accounts for the (sometimes beautifal) morality that humans posess?


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyd6om8IC4M

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #237 - March 17, 2010, 07:34 PM

    I don't know I hadnt thought too much about what I would say to them.  I don't know any personally.


    Then think. It is not hard to imagine you have a 9 year old daughter. Be honest with yourself, because you are not fooling anyone here.  It's not okay to "not think about it", THINK!

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #238 - March 17, 2010, 07:34 PM

    lightrays simply can't reconcile the supposed timeless immutability of Islam and the fact that the Prophet Mohammad sexually penetrated a nine year old girl when he was in his 50's like a common, grubby paedophile.

    Hey lightrays, if you are willing to relativise the prophet's behaviour, aren't you denying that he is insaan al kamil, the perfect man for eternity towards whom all else must aspire to emulate? Surely then all of Islam can be relativised, including the Quran and hadith?



    quite reconciled thanks
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #239 - March 17, 2010, 07:35 PM

    Prophet Mohammad sexually penetrated a nine year old girl when he was in his 50's like a common, grubby paedophile.


    Perhaps Muhammad didn't penetrate her, I think he might have just "thighed" her and molested her. Perhaps Muhammad also had some form of erectile dysfunction and thats why he preffered molesting Aisha over his other more mature wives?

    In any case, what a fucking creep. In modern society this man would have been locked away for life. Wouldn't you agree LightRays and AbuYunus?

     Just do it

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

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