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Theme Changer

 Topic: About your videos

 (Read 57637 times)
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  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #240 - March 17, 2010, 07:38 PM

    Quote
    quite reconciled thanks

     

    If you're reconciled then you will deem Mohammad to be insaan al kamil and consider a 50 year old man fucking a 9 year old girl an exemplary act. You will consider it to be eveidence of his being beyond criticism, and of being the perfect man towards whom all Muslims must aspire to be, and you will consider child sex to be an immutable act beyond criticism.

    Which means you are an apologist for that act of paedophilia, and all your relativising is just sophistry and lies. Or you're a liar and you just can't bring yourself to admit in front of kuffar, how disgusting the Prophet Mohammad was when he took a nine year old girl as his bride and raped her.

    Which is it?


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #241 - March 17, 2010, 07:54 PM

    Perhaps Muhammad didn't penetrate her, I think he might have just "thighed" her and molested her. Perhaps Muhammad also had some form of erectile dysfunction and thats why he preffered molesting Aisha over his other more mature wives?

    In any case, what a fucking creep. In modern society this man would have been locked away for life. Wouldn't you agree LightRays and AbuYunus?

     Just do it


    You know my position Iblis. I don't trust hadiths and feel it's probably likely Aisha was a lot older than most people think.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #242 - March 17, 2010, 07:54 PM



    If you're reconciled then you will deem Mohammad to be insaan al kamil and consider a 50 year old man fucking a 9 year old girl an exemplary act. You will consider it to be eveidence of his being beyond criticism, and of being the perfect man towards whom all Muslims must aspire to be, and you will consider child sex to be an immutable act beyond criticism.

    Which means you are an apologist for that act of paedophilia, and all your relativising is just sophistry and lies. Or you're a liar and you just can't bring yourself to admit in front of kuffar, how disgusting the Prophet Mohammad was when he took a nine year old girl as his bride and raped her.

    Which is it?




    I think I have given my argument enough times.  I accept that there are calls in the UK for sexual activity to be permitted from 13 on and whilst not my position It actually means that in reality we are effectively talking about sexual activity being permissible from the age of sexual maturity.   Global that is pretty much the standard in fact.  Certainly across time but even in present times spatially we see most regions in the world considering sexual maturity, puberty, to be the time from which sexual activity can occur.  In many cases this occurs earlier re: a case of a 9 yr old girl pregnant recently in Brazil and interestingly by a similarly aged boy (13 i think).  I therefore have no problem with Aisha reaching that  age when she did.  The age difference is massive and I would suggest indicates a limit.  Admittedly the maturity both sexual and mental was greater in such societies than in our mollycoddled contemporary society.  So whilst I dont chose it for myself or my daughter or our times if you must.... I genuinely have no problem understanding that it is permissible, under the right conditions.  The prophets example was exemplary of course and showed both the upper and lower limits. Khadija his first wife with a man half her age and a monogamous relationship of 20 years.  

    As I have said a serious discussion is not simple and bleating yes/no's say more for the insecurities of those baying so please dont insult my intelligence or yours for that matter.  

  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #243 - March 17, 2010, 07:56 PM

    You know my position Iblis. I don't trust hadiths and feel it's probably likely Aisha was a lot older than most people think.


    It boils down to either trusting a nice British Bangladeshi Muslim guy's gut instinct or 1400 year old chain of narration of hadiths that have been authorized and acknowledged by the great Islamic scholars of the past.

    Who do you think I'm going to believe?  whistling2

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #244 - March 17, 2010, 07:56 PM

    Thanks for the vid rationaliser but can you answer my questions:

    cheers, but seriously, do you beleive that group survival accounts for the (sometimes beautifal) morality that humans posess? In addition what made me almost cry when my son was born. Where does that feeling of humilitly when I look up at the stars or when I learn about the beauty of the universe come from? What makes me feel pain that some people will end up in hell (according to my beliefs)? Are these also explained by group survival?

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #245 - March 17, 2010, 07:58 PM

    I think I have given my argument enough times.


    Yes, your long drawn out copy/paste answer about social morality etc clearly states that you would not let your 9 year old daughter marry a man in his 50's, however you are simply not brave enough to state it as a fact.

    Allah knows what is in your heart, so there is no point hiding what you really think.  If *I* know it, I am sure it is obvious to "Allah".

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #246 - March 17, 2010, 08:00 PM

    It boils down to either trusting a nice British Bangladeshi Muslim guy's gut instinct or 1400 year old chain of narration of hadiths that have been authorized and acknowledged by the great Islamic scholars of the past.

    Who do you think I'm going to believe?  whistling2


    So you know that most if not all hadiths were only passed down by word of mouth for over a hundered years before they were actually doccumented (don't you think this would have made them totally unreliable). You know there is obvious corruption in the hadith. But you're still willing to trust them just because other humans centuries ago happened to beleive in them?

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #247 - March 17, 2010, 08:02 PM

    In addition what made me almost cry when my son was born.


    If your ancestors didn't form such a strong emotional attachment to their offspring they would have defended them against predators a lot less.  


    Where does that feeling of humitly when I look up at the stars or when I learn about the beauty of the universe come from?


    That's not a moral.


    What makes me feel pain that some people will end up in hell (according to my beliefs)? Are these also explained by group survival?


    Empathy.  Neanderthals probably died out because they weren't social enough, our ancestors had a greater ability to communicate verbally and therefore socialised more; sharing new technologies, and also passing on illnesses + their immunities.

    Species which kill their own are not as successful as those who protect their own.  Therefore the have more offspring and the trait is passed on.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #248 - March 17, 2010, 08:03 PM

    I think I have given my argument enough times.  I accept that there are calls in the UK for sexual activity to be permitted from 13 on and whilst not my position It actually means that in reality we are effectively talking about sexual activity being permissible from the age of sexual maturity.   Global that is pretty much the standard in fact.  Certainly across time but even in present times spatially we see most regions in the world considering sexual maturity, puberty, to be the time from which sexual activity can occur.  In many cases this occurs earlier re: a case of a 9 yr old girl pregnant recently in Brazil and interestingly by a similarly aged boy (13 i think).  I therefore have no problem with Aisha reaching that  age when she did.  The age difference is massive and I would suggest indicates a limit.  Admittedly the maturity both sexual and mental was greater in such societies than in our mollycoddled contemporary society.  So whilst I dont chose it for myself or my daughter or our times if you must.... I genuinely have no problem understanding that it is permissible, under the right conditions.  The prophets example was exemplary of course and showed both the upper and lower limits. Khadija his first wife with a man half her age and a monogamous relationship of 20 years. 

    As I have said a serious discussion is not simple and bleating yes/no's say more for the insecurities of those baying so please dont insult my intelligence or yours for that matter. 




    Thanks for making my point  Afro


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #249 - March 17, 2010, 08:03 PM

    So you know that most if not all hadiths were only passed down by word of mouth for over a hundered years before they were actually doccumented (don't you think this would have made them totally unreliable). You know there is obvious corruption in the hadith. But you're still willing to trust them just because other humans centuries ago happened to beleive in them?


    Most of Shariah law is based on hadith.  The Quran doesn't even say Muhammad was the LAST messenger of God, only hadith say that.  If you are going to discount hadith then you have to drop almost everything you believe about Islam.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #250 - March 17, 2010, 08:04 PM

    Message sent to me today - I have directed the guy here for a response - please feel free to comment:

    ........

    Oh my Allah! There are soooo many things wrong with this letter. I'm gonna be posting a better reply soon when I'm caught up with with my college shit.

    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

    https://twitter.com/AlharbiMoe
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #251 - March 17, 2010, 08:05 PM

    @AbuYunus

    Who says I trust them? Huh?

    I'm just bringing into doubt your motives for discarding them, and doing so selectively. If I was Muslim, I would either reject them entirely or accept them entirely. Your selective use of the hadiths is hypocritical. But you can't help it because Islam, in all practicality, ceases to have any meaningful purpose without the hadith. Quran-only Islam is no different than killing Islam and I commend you for that! Reality is that rejecting the hadiths is rejecting Islam. So you're an apostate of sorts anyways. Smiley

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #252 - March 17, 2010, 08:06 PM

    If you are going to discount hadith then you have to drop almost everything you believe about Islam.

    Take it or leave it, that's what I always say! Afro

    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

    https://twitter.com/AlharbiMoe
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #253 - March 17, 2010, 08:07 PM

    rationaliser, cool. If you want to believe that all the morality and a lot of the more beautiful emotions that humans posess is due to evolutionary pressure for group survival, that's up to you. I find it very difficult to believe.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #254 - March 17, 2010, 08:08 PM

    cool. If you want to believe that all the morality and a lot of the more beautiful emotions that humans posess is due to evolutionary pressure for group survival, that's up to you. I find it very difficult to believe.


    It's usually difficult to understand things you have not researched.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #255 - March 17, 2010, 08:08 PM

    I don't know I hadnt thought too much about what I would say to them.  I don't know any personally.


    OK but on what basis do you decide what conditions/context etc mean you must ignore particular examples the prophet set - and what conditions mean you should follow them?
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #256 - March 17, 2010, 08:09 PM

    @abuyunus look at the morality and emotions in the animal kingdom then. Watch National Geographic...

    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

    https://twitter.com/AlharbiMoe
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #257 - March 17, 2010, 08:12 PM

    I actually subscribe to the timeless applicability of the sharia, in striving to change society, following the example of the prophet


    Yet you consider some parts of this "timeless Shari'ah" inapplicable at certain times/contexts. So how do you decide when and what parts of this "timeless Shari'ah" should be applied and what parts are not to be applied?


  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #258 - March 17, 2010, 08:12 PM

    @AbuYunus

    Who says I trust them? Huh?

    I'm just bringing into doubt your motives for discarding them, and doing so selectively. If I was Muslim, I would either reject them entirely or accept them entirely. Your selective use of the hadiths is hypocritical. But you can't help it because Islam, in all practicality, ceases to have any meaningful purpose without the hadith. Quran-only Islam is no different than killing Islam and I commend you for that! Reality is that rejecting the hadiths is rejecting Islam. So you're an apostate of sorts anyways. Smiley


    You're right perhaps I am a bit selective. I'd rather disregard them altogether, but I know that probably isn't possible - I tend to cling on to the ones for prayer, zakaat etc.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #259 - March 17, 2010, 08:15 PM

    You're right perhaps I am a bit selective. I'd rather disregard them altogether, but I know that probably isn't possible - I tend to cling on to the ones for prayer, zakaat etc.


    Exactly, you pick and choose what you want to believe.  That's called social morality.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #260 - March 17, 2010, 08:19 PM

    ''Exactly, you pick and choose what you want to believe.  That's called social morality.''

    No they are things that the Quran doesnt go into detail on how to perform - but maybe that was actually the point. Maybe we should pray as often and in the manner to Allah in the way we feel comfortable. And maybe we should give charity in the amount that we feel comfortable. The only thing the Quran says is to do them regularly.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #261 - March 17, 2010, 08:20 PM

    You're right perhaps I am a bit selective. I'd rather disregard them altogether, but I know that probably isn't possible - I tend to cling on to the ones for prayer, zakaat etc.


    So the hadiths are a-okay to follow if it involves wudu, salat, zakat but they are untrustworthy and suspect when it comes to doing a 9 year old girl?

    Geez, I wonder what made you make that distinction.  whistling2

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #262 - March 17, 2010, 08:22 PM

    ''Exactly, you pick and choose what you want to believe.  That's called social morality.''

    No they are things that the Quran doesnt go into detail on how to perform - but maybe that was actually the point. Maybe we should pray as often and in the manner to Allah in the way we feel comfortable. And maybe we should give charity in the amount that we feel comfortable. The only thing the Quran says is to do them regularly.


    And so you give it as much as you can sustain over a long term, which is exactly what I do and I am an atheist expecting no reward at all.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #263 - March 17, 2010, 08:28 PM

    No, it was one of the arguments that made me reach the conclusion that Atheism was a bit silly.

    I beleive that every single human being was given a soul and that our soul is responsible for our morality. Some keep their soul more pure than others.

    Are you saying that atheists have less pure souls and are less morally pure than theists?  You really need to think a little more about the arguments you make.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #264 - March 17, 2010, 08:30 PM

    There is no soul, so his argument doesn't matter either way.  Afro

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #265 - March 17, 2010, 08:31 PM

    A message to you all from the guy in the original post:


    mx399   
    Re: Re: about your videos
    Re: Re: about your videos
    ---PLEASE KINDLY POST THIS IN YOUR FORUM TOO---

    I went to your ex-muslims forum. It is funny to see you all support each other and make each other feel better. You have FREE WILL, so it is nice to know that it works well. LOL Whatever you want to do is your perogative. You answer to God.

    Please post this in the forum too (i'll verify), because I have asked about 50 non muslims, and they do not have an answer as to why Muhammad (pbuh) would put restrictions on himself. One of your ex muslims posted "it was a good way to brainwash"... LoL.. typical answer when you don't have an answer! There are 2 billion muslims in the world today with Islam being the fastest growing religion. No way that 2 billion people would be brainwashed. You brainwash a CULT, not humanity. You can lie to some people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time. Sorry, you guys have no answers but to QUOTE people and be sarcastic in a means to support one another. If you think this forum will stop Islam from expanding, think again!

    Have you ever asked yourself that what if this life IS a test? Have you given the Quran the benefit of the doubt or do you just bash it without reading it carefully? What if God, who created the heavens and the earth, actually did put certain laws down as well? Afterall, He is the creater (he beget not, nor is begotten), so He can do whatever He wants. Who can stop Him? Now read my comments below and think for a few moments afterwards...

    The Quran came down to earth in parts by the angel Gabriel to Muhammad (pbuh) over about 23yrs. God did not send the Quran all at once because it would be too much to digest by humans. It needed to be done in phases. Muhammad memorized the Quran as the chapters were revealed by Gabriel. He then passed the message to his followers. The Quran since its revelation has been MEMORIZED by millions word for word. If any Quran is printed that is not correct, it can easily be recognized by muslims. Do you understand that so far?

    God has claimed to protect the Quran till the Day of Judgement. Do you see how it is protected by memorization over so many centuries? It is the MOST read book in the world and memorized word for word. This has been going on since its revelation. The Bible is the most PRINTED book. But the Quran is the most recited book. Do you understand it is memorize in FULL word for word!! It has never been changed since it came down because it is in the minds of so many. If you go and burn all Qurans today, it will still be there because it is fully memorized. Every day someone new memorizes it. It is protected. Only God can empower someone to memorize a holy book word for word for so many centuries, thus also protecting its contents through the test of time. It is exactly in the mind of people today, as it was 1400 yrs ago, because it was passed down generation to generation.

    Now, do you know the Quran is entirely poetic? It makes it easier to memorize. I will give you guys the benefit of the doubt now. Are you telling me Muhammad (pbuh), being way smarter than Einstein, wrote the entire Quran in a poetic form (how brilliant), got millions of his followers to memorize it for centuries so that it can never be changed since it was revealed, then pray 5 times a day to God (not to Muhammad) so that at any given moment (worldwide) someone is worshipping God, fast 30 days (lunar)(in scorching sun with no food or water), lower his gaze from opposite sex, ask the beautiful women to hide their drop dead gorgeous bodies, forbid the consumption of alcohol, forbid the consumption of pork, demand to give charity, demand to WUDU before any prayers, demand to wash (privates) after bathroom usage, forbid adultery, theft, lies, any disobedience to parents, demand to worship ONE God, and never wanted his picture to be taken or made?? You mean, Muhammad (pbuh) was that convincing that his masterplan is still carried out today by 2 billion people? Come on, you have to give it up to him! He is therefore the smartest man to ever walk on earth. WoW! Poetic holy book? Who would have thunk it?

    I have fasted for 30 days, and people at my work are shocked. My coworker suggested he will do it for 1 day because he claimed it was so easy. And within 1 hour he ate a bagel. hahaha.. Imagine stopping everything that goes in your mouth for a full summer day (6am to 8pm), let alone 30days. That just sounds crazy!!! And then to get billions to do the same. Holy Crap. Ingenious! Come on people- at least applaud Muhammad (pbuh) for being so creative! And then to ask NOTHING in return. Not even a pic of himself? Shit, I would have had photos of me placed everywhere if I made a religion.

    Lets continue. So why would a MAN do this? WHY?Huh? How did he deploy such a masterplan?Huh? What does a mortal gain from this? Please explain... Everything so thoughtfully planned out. So seamless... I could not even get my coworker to fast for 3 hours. Forget 30 days. And to get someone across the globe to always bow down worshipping me since Muhammad (pbuh) followed a lunar calendar. Wouldn't it be so much easier to just pray on Sundays? Or to fast say just from Dec 1st to Dec 10th, every year at the same time? And how about just one drink to ease stress? No? And how did Muhammad (pbuh) know about embryology and talk about it in the Quran? He probably invented the xray machine.

    Look the fact is we can argue for days, years, but there is a God, there is only ONE religion. Use process of elimination. The religion HAS to be WORLDLY, and not pertain to ONE region. So automatically it narrows down to JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY and ISLAM (because they are spread in every color and race). Islam came into existance because the other two were destorted by man. Islam was Gods final message. It is too PERFECT for a MAN to make up. TRUST ME! Christians say Jesus (pbuh) died for their sins. Come on? Seriously? So then if I go drink all my problems away, or commit adultery, you will let me go? So Tiger Woods gets forgiven that easily? Shweeeettttt!!! I guess Christianity is the religion to be in! Everything you do is forgiven, because Jesus(pbuh) died for us all. Come on guys. Jusus (pbuh) was one of the best prophets of God. He was there just to re-convey the original message of Moses(pbuh). After he was not around, the new testament was written by mortals and distorted. Islam finally came and the Quran has been protected since. Know that. If you want to choose not to believe it, that is your call. But you cannot deny it.

    Don't wait till it is too late.... Like i said, NO MAN would make this relgion. Why the restrictions?Huh?? How the perfection?
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #266 - March 17, 2010, 08:32 PM

    hassan, could you please reply to him with:

    tl;dr



    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #267 - March 17, 2010, 08:32 PM

    Yet you consider some parts of this "timeless Shari'ah" inapplicable at certain times/contexts. So how do you decide when and what parts of this "timeless Shari'ah" should be applied and what parts are not to be applied?



    [/quote
    only insofar as any legal systems provides for that.

  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #268 - March 17, 2010, 08:33 PM

    Quote
    A message to you all from the guy in the original post:


    tl;dr.  

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: About your videos
     Reply #269 - March 17, 2010, 08:35 PM

    A message to you all from the guy in the original post:


    mx399   
    Re: Re: about your videos
    Re: Re: about your videos
    ---PLEASE KINDLY POST THIS IN YOUR FORUM TOO---

    ...


    is he wrong?

    Mod-edit: Shortened the quote.
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