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Theme Changer

 Topic: Another story

 (Read 8835 times)
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  • Another story
     OP - March 25, 2010, 03:16 PM

    So here is my story. I’ve been meaning to write it even before I sign up to this forum, but procrastination got in the way.

    As I had said in my introduction thread, I am female, aged 27, born, raised and living in a North African country where Islam is religion of state. I hold a university degree, have a full-time job in a multinational company, and for the first 25 years of my life, I was a muslim.

    Like every kid around me, I was taught from early childhood that God is the creator of everything, that Mohammed is His Prophet and that I must be a good girl in order to go to heaven. What is heaven? Would I ask. “it’s a place where you can get EVERYTHING you ever wanted”. To me that meant all sorts of pastries/sweets, so it was rather exciting. Also, I had formed this image of God in my head: a huge, kind-looking centipede that would give presents to good people using its multiple hands. I was taught to recite Surat al Fatiha even before I started going to school, and learned how to pray at around the age of nine. It didn’t seem like a big deal because I liked imitating my parents. After puberty, though, it became a chore. I wasn’t very regular in my prayers, and would sometimes just pretend to do them. All in all, religion never seemed too complicated. I learned about it in school, had to memorize surat there, and also started memorizing surat on my own, without having anyone telling me to. The thing was: I didn’t really understand them. I never gave much thought to my beliefs in my teens. I was just content to be a muslim, just like my parents and everyone around me. When I turned 17, things began to slowly change. I started paying more attention to Islamic lectures, started reading books, made the resolution of being more assiduous in my prayers, even considered wearing hijab, when my own mother didn’t wear it.

    At the same time, contradictorily, I developed a huge interest in heavy metal music, and was known to spend hours on various forums (not local, though, they were mostly frequented by Europeans and Americans) and to talk online with the people I met there. This is how I came to know a European young man and started a long distance relationship with him. It was naïve and stupid, I realized it later, but at that time I was so passionate about everything, I thought he was the one and all that. We had never met (we planned to meeting eventually, of course) and would mainly chat online and talk on the phone, and yet it got serious to the point that there were talks of marriage. The main issue (or so I thought) was that he was agnostic. Since I was very much convinced that Islam is the true word of God and that it is impossible for him not to see it, I undertook my mission of converting him. At first he was cooperative because he wanted to please me, but eventually he told me that it wasn’t possible for him to believe in my religion, that the Quran was filled with contradictions and too hateful for his peaceful nature. I was appalled, horrified that he would say such things about the most sacred and perfect of texts. I tried to discuss it with him but my arguments were weak. I thought it was because I wasn’t knowledgeable enough. Eventually I gave up and decided that the man just wasn’t meant for me. I thought it was all the work of the devil, who was preventing him from seeing the light, so after a while I moved on and decided that I was better than that, that I deserved a true muslim for a significant other and that God had better plans for me anyway. It was painful at the time, but I turned to religion even more fervently for solace. My mother had heard about that relationship and told me that if I thought that my parents would allow me to marry a foreigner, I was deluded. I argued that I had tried to get him to convert, but she said that “Western” converts could not be trusted, and proceeded with telling me stories about this and that woman who married a foreigner and ended up miserable, and ended by telling me that I should praise Allah for guiding my way back to reason. I didn’t question her words then, and did just what she said. After that life became simpler. I started immersing myself even further into religion. I started rethinking my vision of life and was quite convinced that my fate was to be a good muslim housewife, to have several kids and raise them to be good muslims. Most of all I wanted God to be happy with me and to grant me a loving marriage.

    So I just went on with life. I wouldn’t say there weren’t any doubts, but I was pretty good at sweeping them under the carpet. They would mostly arise when reading particular topics in internet forums. I have talked about my love for metal music, and for several years I’ve been a member of this particular message board that was filled with very interesting people and where all sorts of subjects were discussed. Religion was very often discussed, as well as science and evolution. I was in the tiny minority of believers, and the people (mostly Christians) who would be too vocal about their beliefs would be systematically annihilated with the help of logical and reasonable arguments. I didn’t like that at all, so I would keep quiet about my religiosity, and even avoid reading those topics. But I gradually started being interested in them. I couldn’t say exactly how or when that change happened. I have a particular recollection, though, during the summer of 2007, of reading a book about various mythologies and ran into several mentions of virgin births and floods. I was baffled. It sounded like Abrahamic religions had copied legends that predated them. So I turned to my then best friend, who is a very intelligent person, yet (at the time I wouldn’t use the word “yet”, of course) deeply religious. The sort of person who makes you think “If he believes that religion is right, then it must be” and I asked him about that. His only response was “well, did it occur to you that those mythologies came up with the concepts of virgin births and floods after being inspired by Abrahamic religions?” I didn’t say anything, but I was far from being convinced. I questioned him about evolution and how does it sit with our religious beliefs, and he said that science hasn’t yet proved that God didn’t exist. That wasn’t convincing either. I ran some google research about the subject and read article written by Harun Yahya and decided it was mainly bullshit.

    I tried to push it all away in the back of my mind and just focus on my life and seek distraction with music and books and movies, but I could feel the doubt gnawing at me, day after day. I started shying away from religious talks with my relatives because I felt like arguing with every point they were making. I thought I could start reading Quran all over again, surely I would find answers and solace there, but I just couldn’t bring myself to do it because I knew (having read it several times before) it would only make things worse. To be honest, the more doubt grew, the lighter my conscience became. I could almost physically feel the fear of hell fading away, and the guilt for not doing things the right Islamic way just disappeared.

    It really felt like that seal that the Quran talks about was lifted off my heart, and made me to see the light, but in the opposite way that Allah intended. Suddenly I was able to think critically of things I used to see as scared and granted. I didn’t have to make up excuses anymore for verses or teachings that were fishy. When I admitted to myself that Mohammed was probably the author of Quran, it all made sense. For some reason, unlike many ex-muslims (well, the ones whose stories I’ve read, at least), Aisha’s marriage never really troubled me. Probably because when I was taught religion, emphasize was never put on how old the prophet was then. And I was also fed a lie: He married Aisha when she was nine and consummated the marriage when she was eleven. That was acceptable to me, because eleven was the age my grandmother married (her husband was fourteen, though). As for the issue of 4:34, I had somehow come to term with the idea that hadith contradicted the verse, so it was all ok. I swallowed the crap about how verses ordering to kill the kuffar were taken out of historical context (and regurgitated it, too). And now I saw all that what it was: the ravings of a sadist and misogynist with a god complex.

    I thought this was all fine and dandy because I could just get on with my life the way it is, without pressure of the afterlife and an eternity of burning and torture (that was a huge relief because physical pain is one of my greatest phobias), and nothing needs to change because of it… that is, until I realized that I didn’t want this life, after all. As a muslim woman, having finished my university degree, gotten a decent, well-paid job and having my eldest sister getting married (I’m the second), the natural step for me was to get married and start a family. Now I realized I wasn’t sure I wanted that. Not that I didn’t want a family, but not in the environment I was raised in, and definitely not with a muslim man. My elder sister married her boyfriend of seven year, a young man who is a muslim in name, but doesn’t pray, barely fasts, doesn’t seem to care about religion and yet is very decent (I said ‘yet’ because we all know muslims’ opinions about the immorality of non-believers). She is very happy with him and I envy her freedom (well, you can’t really call it freedom in an Islamic society, but it’s still better than what I have), but my mother sometimes complain to me about how they made a poor decision in allowing them to marry because she would have liked a devout muslim for a son-in-law, and she talks about how she won’t make that mistake with me, and how it is important that I marry someone who knows his deen and sticks to it. I find that prospect scary. My parents will never force me to marry anyone, but they are the sort who will not let me marry someone they don’t approve of. Thankfully I haven’t had many “suitors” so far. A cousin of mine tried to set me up with a coworker’s brother, who was supposedly very attractive, very religious and who has an engineering degree (which was just perfect for my mother), but I refused to even meet him. I talked to him on the phone once and was just appalled at how little communication there was, because he simply didn’t understand my questions, and was very shy, and didn’t have any interest in books, movies, music, or anything at all. I simply told him I wasn’t the right person for him and left it at that. My mother threw a fit, saying I was being shallow, and I will end up a spinster and regret it bitterly. I just told her I couldn’t even consider being with a person like that.

    And that’s where I introduce my current boyfriend. He is Scandinavian and is a member of that internet message board I mentioned earlier, and I have been talking to him online for three years. A year ago the nature of our relationship shifted to something romantic. I was still a muslim when I knew him, and he is the first person I came out to with my change of beliefs. But even then, I didn’t think what we had was serious since we had never met, and since my parents would never approve of such a relationship anyway. The plan was to enjoy it while it lasts and to meet as soon as possible to see how we fared in real life. It didn’t happen until ten months afterwards, because there are very few countries that I can visit without a visa, and applying for them is a long and uncertain process. So last December I did something I thought I never would do. I lied to my parents, told them my job was sending me on a training abroad (I forged papers to make it seem real), to a different country, and instead flew to my boyfriend’s city and spent two weeks in his apartment.

    I had never really been in a relationship before him, save for that aborted long-distance thing. I was raised to believe that my reputation was important, that boys were perverts who just wanted to use me for their pleasure and that if someone really loved me, he’d go straight to the engagement stage and not fool around with me. I was already a very insecure person (mostly about my physical appearance) so if someone showed interest I would get scared and push them away. So I was completely innocent to “being with” someone. Those days spent with my boyfriend were a shock to me. I never thought being so close to someone, both physically and emotionally, could feel so intense.

    Also, I wasn’t used to the freedom of being out of my parents’ sight and control, of doing anything I wanted and go where I wanted. Another thing that came like a shock to me was that people simply didn’t care about what people around them do with their private lives. That’s an alien concept to me. At home, wherever I go, people watch, people listen and people judge. I felt none of that in that country. And of course, the economic and social advancement was attractive to me. So I have been entertaining the thought of moving out of the country (and in with my boyfriend) ever since. It doesn’t sound very realistic from where I stand. My parents are somewhat conservative people. Both have university degrees and are retired from long careers; my father as an engineer, and my mother as a teacher. When compared to many parents around me, even in my own extended family, they were open minded and ‘cool’. My sisters and I were always encouraged to pursue studies and careers, never pressured into wearing hijab (my mother only started wearing it about five years ago herself) and in general were never bugged about religion that much, except with the occasional “have you done your prayers yet?” or “change your shirt, it’s too short and too revealing”.

    And then my mother retired from her teaching job and just stayed at home all day watching religious tv networks (particularly Iqraa, my personal plague), reading Quran all day, and she just changed. I don’t recognize the woman who raised, the rational (as rational as religious can be) woman who would question the veracity of this and that hadith. She just swallows everything now. She has become a bigot, and a racist, too. Calling anyone who isn’t a muslim an animal. I just can’t speak to her anymore. I remain silent. Whenever she goes on her religious rants, I hold my tongue and swallow my anger and frustration, because I have a short temper and if I start arguing with her I might let it all out.

    So right now I feel trapped. I don’t want to live and raise my future children in this country anymore, I want to be with my boyfriend, I do not want to have religion shoved down my throat wherever I turn, I do not want to live all my life under the authority of a man (father or husband), I don’t want my private life to be controlled by the whims and views of a mother-in-law, because almost ever Algerian man is a mama’s boy. I want to be my own person. I want to enjoy my life, since I only get this one shot at it. I want to raise happy, mentally healthy children who will also enjoy their lives and hopefully leave a positive trace in this world. But I can’t, because my parents won’t allow it (though I’m determined to fight them for it), and I can’t just grab my stuff and leave because, whatever their faults, they are still my parents and I love them, and I don’t want to cause them pain.

    I don't know where to go from here.

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #1 - March 25, 2010, 03:29 PM


    Naerys - do you have the ability to get out of town and be with your fella? You work for a multinational, get a posting abroad, or look into doing some kind of university course. Try to get out. You only have one life. You can always return. But you have to do what makes you happy.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Another story
     Reply #2 - March 25, 2010, 03:29 PM

    Thanks for sharing.

    Marry your boyfriend, move to his country. Just do it.

    fuck you
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #3 - March 25, 2010, 03:30 PM

    Thanks for sharing your story Naerys. 'almost every Algerian man is a mama’s boy'  Cheesy lol.
    A tricky situation indeed, I hope things work out for you and your family.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #4 - March 25, 2010, 04:08 PM

    Thanks for sharing your story naerys, feels good to know more about you and where you are at right now. hugs

    I'm with Billy, what are you realistic options for immigrating away?

    Is there a plan you can put into action to make it happen?

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #5 - March 25, 2010, 04:18 PM

    Nice story, I hope you do what makes you happy and at least try to maintain good relations with your family.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #6 - March 25, 2010, 04:18 PM

    Fascinating story.

    I hope everything works out for you. Smiley
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #7 - March 25, 2010, 04:31 PM

    A great story. Smiley

    I know it is very much easier said than done, but you did say so yourself that you only get this one chance to live your life. Eventually I think you might get to a point where you realize that this life is your life and not their life, and I hope it works out.

    I thought this was appropriate...

    There came a time when the risk to remain tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.  ~Anaïs Nin
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #8 - March 25, 2010, 05:06 PM

    OMG, that's my story, minus the scandinavian boyfriends, and I got more freedom cos I live away from my parents since I graduated high school, but the rest is the same as mine, I can relate to you, the mother story, the process of how you changed your mind and perception about Islam, it's almost like reading my own story, I also think about how to raise my future children (I don't have children yet)

    Your option is to work oversea, don't get married yet, it might be too fast, you should make sure that you would be an independent women out of your country, I mean you only tried living with this boyfriend for two weeks, but if it the last option, and if you think you should go for it, just go for it, you could always visit your parent anyway, you'll come up with something eventually, you know what's best for you in this kind of situation.
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #9 - March 25, 2010, 05:14 PM

    They would mostly arise when reading particular topics in internet forums. I have talked about my love for metal music, and for several years I’ve been a member of this particular message board that was filled with very interesting people and where all sorts of subjects were discussed. Religion was very often discussed, as well as science and evolution. I was in the tiny minority of believers, and the people (mostly Christians) who would be too vocal about their beliefs would be systematically annihilated with the help of logical and reasonable arguments. I didn’t like that at all, so I would keep quiet about my religiosity, and even avoid reading those topics. But I gradually started being interested in them.




    To be honest, the more doubt grew, the lighter my conscience became. I could almost physically feel the fear of hell fading away, and the guilt for not doing things the right Islamic way just disappeared.

    It really felt like that seal that the Quran talks about was lifted off my heart, and made me to see the light, but in the opposite way that Allah intended. Suddenly I was able to think critically of things I used to see as scared and granted.

    I can totally relate to that. The forum stuff (though not Metal forums), the lifting off of the seal. All the same   Wink

    Great story BTW.  Afro

    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: Another story
     Reply #10 - March 25, 2010, 07:43 PM

    Quote
    A cousin of mine tried to set me up with a coworker’s brother, who was supposedly very attractive, very religious and who has an engineering degree (which was just perfect for my mother), but I refused to even meet him. I talked to him on the phone once and was just appalled at how little communication there was, because he simply didn’t understand my questions, and was very shy, and didn’t have any interest in books, movies, music, or anything at all. I simply told him I wasn’t the right person for him and left it at that. My mother threw a fit,

    what  a person you are dear Naerys.,

    That guy appears like   a TYPICAL Muslim just came out of college with  a degree from Indian subcontinent., How on this earth he is going to level talk with a FIREBRAND like you? Huh??   he was indeed a lucky guy., very lucky guy,  Thanks to Allah he escaped the den of  lion... lol..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #11 - March 25, 2010, 08:30 PM

    Fascinating story Naerys!
    Looks like you are concerned about the happiness of your parents but they aren’t concerned about your happiness and what is best for you at all.
    Remember that your parents are free to make their own choices and so are you.
    You are not a bad person for following your heart, quite the opposite.
    Your parents should be happy that you are happy - its not you who is forcing anything on them; the opposite is true. And they should be mature enough to realize that. Fuck the cultural expectations – it’s your life and your happiness at stake here.
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #12 - March 25, 2010, 08:34 PM

    Naerys - do you have the ability to get out of town and be with your fella? You work for a multinational, get a posting abroad, or look into doing some kind of university course. Try to get out. You only have one life. You can always return. But you have to do what makes you happy.


    I'm afraid it isn't so easy, Billy. My parents will just never let me settle abroad. I might have been able to convince them to let me go finish my studies in a European country a few years ago, but at the time I was very religious and nationalist and thought I just could never live in an another country.  Now I regret it bitterly. And my company is not the sort that would facilitate moving out. If I told my parents NOW that I want to live somewhere else (now that I am done with university and that I have a career going on) they would find it suspicious and would object. They simply don't see anything in my future but marriage and babies.

    Marry your boyfriend, move to his country. Just do it.


    That's a possibility, but a very difficult one. I'm not against marrying him, even though (like virav5 said) having only lived with him for two weeks, I can't know for sure if we're in it for the long haul. I love him and he loves me and we make each other happy, but yeah. We have discussed marriage from an administrative point of view (to get me a residence permit and eventually citizenship) but that's difficult. It's a long bureaucratic process and there are several visa applications involved (those are very tricky) so I'll have to plan it carefully.

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #13 - March 25, 2010, 08:37 PM

    what  a person you are dear Naerys.,

    That guy appears like   a TYPICAL Muslim just came out of college with  a degree from Indian subcontinent., How on this earth he is going to level talk with a FIREBRAND like you? Huh??   he was indeed a lucky guy., very lucky guy,  Thanks to Allah he escaped the den of  lion... lol..

    with best wishes
    yeezevee



    haha my dear yeezevee, I honestly have no idea how to interpret your post. It does seem like you're calling me arrogant Tongue I want to make clear that I have nothing against that type of guy, that I don't see myself as being superior to him. It's just that there's no compatibility and marriage is serious business. And I really mean it when I said that I'm not the right girl for him. He's probably looking for someone sweet and nice and innocent. Which I'm not.

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #14 - March 25, 2010, 08:38 PM

    Fascinating story Naerys!
    Looks like you are concerned about the happiness of your parents but they aren’t concerned about your happiness and what is best for you at all.
    Remember that your parents are free to make their own choices and so are you.
    You are not a bad person for following your heart, quite the opposite.
    Your parents should be happy that you are happy - its not you who is forcing anything on them; the opposite is true. And they should be mature enough to realize that. Fuck the cultural expectations – it’s your life and your happiness at stake here.



    Thank you, Kenan. I know we have discussed this in another thread, and I agree with you. I want to give my parents the benefit of doubt first. I'll try to convince them as best I can, before taking drastic measures.

    Thank you all for your positive response.

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #15 - March 25, 2010, 08:39 PM

    So here is my story...


    Wow! Awesome story Naerys - thanks you so much for sharing - amongst other things it confirms (once again) how the internet is really killing religion.

    When stripped of the family/social/peer group pressures, and exposed to the strong spot light of reason - religious bullshit just can't survive!

    I hope things work out for you!  far away hug
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #16 - March 25, 2010, 09:33 PM

    I want to give my parents the benefit of doubt first. I'll try to convince them as best I can, before taking drastic measures.

    Smart move. I would have done the same. Just make sure you do it tactfully and slowly and scout the terrain first before you bring out the heavy artillery. You don’t want to get ambushed.
    Good luck and may the force be with you.

    When you go to Finland could you say hi to Mika Häkkinen for me pls?

    And I envy you on being freshly in love. It kicks ass.

    Having said that your bf sure is a pretty girl.  aloofandbored0


  • Re: Another story
     Reply #17 - March 26, 2010, 12:35 AM

    Great read Naerys. You're a cool person.

    Having familiarized myself with immigration laws of most Western countries, I think it's extremely difficult for you to immigrate on your own without a sponsor/partner in that given Western country.

    My advice is, try to get closer to your boyfriend just to make sure that 1)you're really compatible with him 2)he really loves you. If that's the case then you should both start researching immigration procedures instantly.

    Life is short and as ungrateful and hurtful as it maybe to your parents, you have to be selfish on this one. I've had given this a lot of thought myself. I haven't fallen in love or though about marriage yet, in fact I don't think I will get married any time soon, but I just thought of it in case I do want to settle down with a non-Muslim girl. My conclusion is, I would do it.
    I've been blessed with a loving family and awesome caring parents, specially my dad. They've done everything in their power to make me happy. But you know what? this is my whole life we're talking about here. And even though it would be a classic dickhead move on my part, I would still marry a girl my parents don't approve of even if I knew it'd hurt them. This is the cycle of life and I'm not willing to live a life of misery and lying just to please my mum and dad.
    Needless to say, I will reason with them and beg them to consider. I might even tell them that I have returned to Islam and I would ask the girl to pretend to convert but that's all I can do.
    In your case, since your parents don't know you're an apostate, it would be easier. Just ask your BF to pretend to convert and tell them there's nothing haram in what you're doing. Give em a kiss and a hug and tell that you still love them and that you'll always be grateful for what they have done for you but they can't control your life.


    Like I said, it depend on how close and into each other you guys are.


    All the best  Smiley
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #18 - March 26, 2010, 01:05 AM

    That's a possibility, but a very difficult one. I'm not against marrying him, even though (like virav5 said) having only lived with him for two weeks, I can't know for sure if we're in it for the long haul. I love him and he loves me and we make each other happy, but yeah. We have discussed marriage from an administrative point of view (to get me a residence permit and eventually citizenship) but that's difficult. It's a long bureaucratic process and there are several visa applications involved (those are very tricky) so I'll have to plan it carefully.


    Yeah, what I'm saying is get married as an administrative matter if he's cool with it-- you guys are legitimately in love so if you end up staying together, great. If you don't, oh well, and send me those naked pictures. It just seems like if you can elope with him and get the paperwork started, it's probably a good idea, that way if your parents don't relent, you feel you need to get out of Dodge, and you can't make it happen any other way, that option is there for you.

    Unless you have an incredible amount of personal wealth that he could take from you in a divorce, it's hard to see a downside to it. As far as your parents are concerned-- you can tell them if you want (once your immigration stuff is in order) or not tell them, your call. Again, I don't see the downside. They will look at you and your relationship carefully of course, but I'm sure you can muster more than enough evidence to show your relationship with him is legit and not just a ruse to commit immigration fraud.

    If your boyfriend ain't down with it, pay me 5 grand and I'll be glad to marry you and you can move to the US*

    ------




    *Attention, law enforcement, this is a joke

    fuck you
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #19 - March 26, 2010, 01:21 AM

    What Q-Man said.
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #20 - March 26, 2010, 04:44 AM

    Thanks for sharing your lifestory in more details, Naerys. Smiley

    I have to agree with Q, Iraqi Atheist and others here who are advising you to take the opportunities you have to build a life for yourself on your own terms, at least more on your terms than the current path in the country and environment you are in would permit you to be on.

    Lots of people, men and women, are in similar situations - stuck in hyper-religious countries, being pressured by their families to get married to people they don't want to spend their lives day in and day out with, etc. You are lucky to have an advantage because you already have someone in a secular country who is in a loving relationship with you. I know long distance relationships are tricky, but it sounds like you and your bf are pretty close and that's a great thing. If you can work things out with him (logistically, economically, practically speaking), then I'd advise you to get on that boat and get the heck out of the situation/place you're in while you still have that opportunity.

    You have a good head on your shoulders, and it sounds like your mother is committed to ensuring you end up in a lot more religious relationship than you would ever want to be in. I have a similar dynamic with my mother (or at least I did, until I stood up for myself). She was always the more religious one than my dad. Anyway, as everyone said, your biological family may not like it at first, or ever, but you have to decide who gets to decide what you are going to do with your life, them or you. It's tough to stand up to those who you love, but for most people, it's part of really growing up in the world, taking responsibility for your life and learning to accept the positive and negative consequences of our choices.

    The question that comes up is: are you willing to live your own life, or someone else's? I think you already know the answer.

    Glad that you're here, you can always find support here and I hope to see you around more often.  far away hug

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #21 - March 26, 2010, 05:25 AM

    I think there's little need to add to the advice that has already been given. I think Naerys knows this too. There really isn't any option unless you are prepared to live someone else's life instead of your own.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #22 - March 26, 2010, 05:30 AM

    I sincerely wish you would come up with the solution soon  Smiley
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #23 - March 26, 2010, 12:14 PM

    Yeap, just read your post and its clear that you will never be happy with the status quo.  You have to move out for your own sake.

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  • Re: Another story
     Reply #24 - March 27, 2010, 09:34 AM

    Thank you so much for the positive feedback, guys. It helps more than you can imagine. 

    Here's to all of you  far away hug

    I would have a question to people who might have researched immigration and marriage procedures, though. In my boyfriend's country, in order for him to marry me (a foreigner), I'll have to provide papers that prove that I am unmarried. Now, that should be easy, if only for the fact that those papers have to have our Ministry of Foreign Affairs stamp on it (this shouldn't be so difficult, since there are many countries' embassies who ask for such stamps on documents for visa application), but also, after having the papers certified by the ministry, I'll have to get a stamp and signature from the embassy of my bf's country of origin. That is scary to me. If I request such a thing, I'm sure they'll know I want to marry a national, and I know that they are trying to limit immigration, and I'm scared they will refuse me or ignore me on that basis.

    I'm saying this because a few months ago I applied for a short stay visa to that country (Schengen) and they never even gave me a feedback about my application status. The lady who works there said that, since I had an invitation from my boyfriend, a young single man, they wouldn't grant me a visa for fear that I would get married with him and move out. And that's what happened. So I had to apply for a visa from another Schengen country and that's how I managed to travel to visit him.

    So if the same thing happens when I ask them to certify the papers necessary to apply for a marriage license (without necessarily telling them that it's my plan, but it's pretty obvious), I'm pretty much screwed. Unless I fly with my boyfriend to Vegas, but how likely is that?

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #25 - March 27, 2010, 10:37 AM

    Tell your boyfriend to contact a solicitor and get some advice. In order to get a visa you don't even have to get married - theoretically all you have to do is prove that you are in a relationship.
    That could be tricky though. Here is a forum I used: http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewforum.php?f=13&sid=cdb3d24d82928381f90d76f47926fb6a
    For a start you could present your problem there and get some advice.
    To circumvent all this crap my wife and I got married in her country of origin and after we were married she applied for a EU Family Permit which is valid for 6 months and after that Home Office granted her a Temporary Residence Permit which is valid for 5 years on condition that we stay married.
    After that she will be able to apply for Permanent residence on her own.

    Good luck!
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #26 - March 30, 2010, 10:07 PM

    but also, after having the papers certified by the ministry, I'll have to get a stamp and signature from the embassy of my bf's country of origin. That is scary to me. If I request such a thing, I'm sure they'll know I want to marry a national, and I know that they are trying to limit immigration, and I'm scared they will refuse me or ignore me on that basis.

    I don't think they can deny you this service simply because you intend to marry a national. I say go for it and if they do make it difficult, have your boyfriend assign an immigration attorney/representative to contact the Embassy on his behalf.


    I'm saying this because a few months ago I applied for a short stay visa to that country (Schengen) and they never even gave me a feedback about my application status. The lady who works there said that, since I had an invitation from my boyfriend, a young single man, they wouldn't grant me a visa for fear that I would get married with him and move out. And that's what happened. So I had to apply for a visa from another Schengen country and that's how I managed to travel to visit him.

    This is not news to me. Many countries refuse visit visa applications if the suspect the applicant intends to overstay his/her visa. But applying for visa and having documents legalized/certified are two entirely different things.


    So if the same thing happens when I ask them to certify the papers necessary to apply for a marriage license (without necessarily telling them that it's my plan, but it's pretty obvious), I'm pretty much screwed. Unless I fly with my boyfriend to Vegas, but how likely is that?

    Like I said give it a go and if it doesn't work out I suggest you meet your bf in a third country to get a marriage certificate. Some countries such as Denmark have pretty lax marriage regulation laws, whereas other countries such as Germany only allow foreign nationals with a residence visa (or another specific category) to get a certificate. So make sure you research the laws of that country in case you opt for this option.

    In all cases, your boyfriend must provide evidence of income and accomodation (payslips, tax returns...etc) along with the completed application form.
    The difficulty varies from country to another but if you are over 18 (in some countries the age is higher) and your bf has a good enough income to support you I don't think there should be a problem.
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #27 - March 30, 2010, 10:15 PM

    Going to a 3rd country is an option yes. Also, Naerys, is there a chance your bf could come to the country you're in and get a civil marriage with you done there?

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #28 - March 30, 2010, 10:21 PM

    Going to a 3rd country is an option yes. Also, Naerys, is there a chance your bf could come to the country you're in and get a civil marriage with you done there?

    I don't think the officials in her country will issue a certificate unless he convinces them or provides evidence that he has converted.
  • Re: Another story
     Reply #29 - March 30, 2010, 10:47 PM

    So right now I feel trapped. I don’t want to live and raise my future children in this country anymore, I want to be with my boyfriend, I do not want to have religion shoved down my throat wherever I turn, I do not want to live all my life under the authority of a man (father or husband), I don’t want my private life to be controlled by the whims and views of a mother-in-law, because almost ever Algerian man is a mama’s boy. I want to be my own person. I want to enjoy my life, since I only get this one shot at it. I want to raise happy, mentally healthy children who will also enjoy their lives and hopefully leave a positive trace in this world. But I can’t, because my parents won’t allow it (though I’m determined to fight them for it), and I can’t just grab my stuff and leave because, whatever their faults, they are still my parents and I love them, and I don’t want to cause them pain.

    I don't know where to go from here.

    I can completely relate to that. I'm in a very similar situation with the same choice as you; either move out and live with bf or stay at home and become a baby-making machine.  I cant choose the latter, it will tear me apart. I love my bf and I cant live without him. But the guilt of hurting my parents is so strong! No matter how right I am to move away and choose my own path, I don't think I could ever forgive myself for causing them pain.

    My advice on dealing with the guilt is to remind yourself of what your kids will have to go through if you stay at home. And what effect it will have on you. Even though both our parents just want what's right for us, it doesn't mean they know what's right for us and it certainly doesn't give them the right to force it on us.

    Can you not pretend to have another business trip overseas and use that as an excuse to move out?
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