Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Gaza assault
by zeca
Yesterday at 07:13 PM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
November 24, 2024, 06:05 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
November 22, 2024, 02:51 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
November 22, 2024, 06:45 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
November 21, 2024, 05:07 PM

New Britain
November 20, 2024, 05:41 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
November 20, 2024, 09:02 AM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
November 19, 2024, 11:36 PM

Dutch elections
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 10:11 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 08:46 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
November 07, 2024, 09:56 AM

The origins of Judaism
by zeca
November 02, 2024, 12:56 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Islame re-reads the Quran

 (Read 91697 times)
  • 12 3 ... 8 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Islame re-reads the Quran
     OP - March 27, 2010, 01:38 PM

    Following on from this thread, here goes..

    This thread has given me an idea - I am going to read the Quran front to back and take notes - i'll probably get bored a quarter of the way in though!

    Yeah, I started doing the same last week.  Its actually more interesting reading it this time.  There is so much in there that we rarely mention here.

    Also reading it in this fashion, along with out coem enlightened minds,  enables you to take far more out of it and understand what really was going on inside Mo's mind.

    What I am getting a real impression off reading it this time is a complete sense of "Life of Brian".

    Mo was a constantly harrassed soul by one person or another asking him about this & that.  In order to keep up the pretence, he would add into his long monologues irrelevent things just to look like a knowledgeable man, even if they were completely unrelated. 

    Also the lack of substance and the amount of times he repeatedly talks about telling you to believe, rather than why, beggars belief.

    Will start a thread on it after I finish it.


    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #1 - March 27, 2010, 01:42 PM

    I've been skim reading through the Pickthal translation (http://www.islam101.com/quran/quranPickthal/trans-pickthal.text) recently and am a sixth of the way through it.

    Here follows some passages that caught my eye..


    1)   Sounds like heaven only contains what Muhammad could see & lust for around him at that time & place.  Along with passages about Arabian fruits & vegetables (and water), here’s another

    Quran 003.014 Beautified for mankind is love of the joys (that come) from women and offspring; and stored-up heaps of gold and silver, and horses branded (with their mark), and cattle and land. That is comfort of the life of the world. Allah! With Him is a more excellent abode.

    2)   Sounds like predestination to me

    Quran 003.145 No soul can ever die except by Allah's leave and at a term appointed.

    3)   Why the repeated obsession with orphans rather than other unfortunate people e.g. disabled people?  Was it because you were an orphan per chance?

    Quran 004.010 Lo! Those who devour the wealth of orphans wrongfully, they do but swallow fire into their bellies, and they will be exposed to burning flame.

    4)   Allah (or more likely Muhammad as he was illiterate) has got their mathematics muddled up because the sums just don’t add up.  Grab a calculator & do it yourself. So again who wrote the Quran, Allah or Muhammad?

    Quran 004.011 Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male  the equivalent of the portion of two females, and if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one (only) then the half. And to each of his parents a sixth of the inheritance, if he have a son; and if he have no son and his parents are his heirs, then to his mother appertaineth the third; and if he have brethren, then to his mother appertaineth the sixth, after any legacy he may have bequeathed, or debt (hath been paid). Your parents and your children: Ye know not which of them is nearer unto you in usefulness. It is an injunction from Allah. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise. 004.012 And unto you belongeth a half of that which your wives leave, if they have no child; but if they have a child then unto you the fourth of that which they leave, after any legacy they may have bequeathed, or debt (they ma y have contracted, hath  been paid). And unto them belongeth the fourth of that which ye leave if ye have no child, but if ye have a child then the eighth of that which ye leave, after any legacy ye may have bequeathed, or debt (ye may have contracted, hath been paid). And if  a man or a woman have a distant heir (having left neither parent nor child), and he (or she) have a brother o r a sister (only on the mother's side) then to each of them twain (the brother and the sister) the sixth, and if they be more than two, then they shall be sharers in  the third, after any legacy that may have been bequeathed or debt (contracted) not injuring (the heirs by willing away more than a third of the heritage) .

    5)   Did you just say it’s ok to forcibly marry a women if she is ‘guilty of flagrant lewdness’.

    Quran 004.019 O ye who believe! It is not lawful for you forcibly to inherit the women (of your deceased kinsmen), nor (that) ye should put constraint upon them that ye may take away a part of that which ye have given them, unless they be guilty of flagrant lewdness. But consort with them in kindness, for if ye hate them it may happen that ye hate a thing wherein Allah hath placed much good.

    6)   I am not sure if I have ever heard of anyone who wants to marry their mother, but at the end we are given license to marry our sons wife?

    Quran 004.023 Forbidden unto you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your father's sisters, and your mother's sisters, and your brother's daughters and your sister's daughters, and your foster-mothers, and your foster-sisters, and your mothers-in-law, and your step-daughters who are under your protection (born) of your women unto whom ye have gone in - but if ye have not gone in unto them, then it is no sin for you (to marry their daughters) - and the wives of your sons who (spring) from your own loins.

    7)   So it’s ok to get drunk up to the point that you can put together a coherent verse?

    Quran 004.043 O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter.......  
    Women are dirty when they are menstruating (this is not the first time I have come across this suggestion in Islam)
    (it continues) Quran 004.043) ... nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying upon the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched women
    ,

    Cool   The "them & us" mentality is littered throughout the Quran.  Here's is an example

    Quran 004.092 It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood-money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity.

    9)   So if you know it is not possible to treat each wife equally, then why do you allow us to do it?  

    Quran 004.129 Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives, however much ye wish (to do so).

    10)   You talking about ALL Jews here Muhammad, if not then why not make the distinction if it’s a book for eternity? They are usurists and will all go to hell? Sounds presumptuous and racist.

    Quran 004.160 Because of the wrongdoing of the Jews We forbade them good things which were (before) made lawful unto them, and because of their much hindering from Allah's way,
    004.161 And of their taking usury when they were forbidden it, and of their devouring people's wealth by false pretences, We have prepared for those of them who disbelieve a painful doom
    .

    11)   Why didn’t you mention alcohol being banned here?

    Quran 005.003 Forbidden unto you (for food) are carrion and blood and swineflesh, and that which hath been dedicated unto any other than Allah, and the strangled, and the dead through beating, and the dead through falling from a height, and that which hath been killed by (the goring of) horns, and the devoured of wild beasts, saving that which ye make lawful (by the death-stroke), and that which hath been immolated unto idols. And (forbidden is it) that ye swear by the divining arrows. This is an abomination.

    12)   So it’s not just about defence & protecting yourselves when you fight. Here you openly accept you are the transgressor in Israel and taking a land that is not already yours.

    Quran 005.021 O my people! Go into the holy land which Allah hath ordained for you. Turn not in flight, for surely ye turn back as losers.

    13)   I was surprised to see this particular Sharia Law come directly from the Quran, and not the hadith

    Quran 005.038 As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.

    14)   Who said Muhammad was forgiving, kind & a pacifist?

    Quran 005.045 And We prescribed for them therein: The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation.

    15)   Not only idolaters go to hell, but Christians believing in the trinity -

    Quran 005.072 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.

    16)   Again no wine mentioned here:-

    Quran 006.145 Say: I find not in that which is revealed unto me aught prohibited to an eater that he eat thereof, except it be carrion, or blood poured forth, or swineflesh - for that verily is foul - or the abomination which was immolated to the name of other than Allah. But whoso is compelled (thereto), neither craving nor transgressing, (for him) lo! thy Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.

    17)   These are the Lot versus (so-called anti-homosexual ones)- In any case this is wrong, as homosexuality in animals is a well documented and known phenomenon.  Bonobos are our closest known relative, and males give each other oral sex to promote societal bonding

    Quran 007.080 And Lot! (Remember) when he said unto his folk: Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you ?
    007.081 Lo! ye come with lust unto men instead of women. Nay, but ye are wanton folk.
    007.082 And the answer of his people was only that they said (one to another): Turn them out of your township. They are folk, forsooth, who keep pure.
    007.083 And We rescued him and his household, save his wife, who was of those who stayed behind.
    007.084  We rained a rain upon them. See now the nature of the consequence of evil-doers!


    18)   This verse refers to the miracles of Christianity & calls them ‘conjecture’.  However the Islamic miracles of the prophet sitting on a flying donkey on your way to get the message from heaven (when nobody was around), and the solar eclipse (when you allegedly split the moon in half) could also be considered as thus?

    Quran 010.036 Most of them follow not but conjecture. Assuredly conjecture can by no means take the place of truth.

    19)   The Quranic challenge and so called proof of its divine origins – i.e. bring another Sura like it -

    Quran 010.038 Or say they: He hath invented it ? Say: Then bring a Sura like unto it, and call (for help) on all ye can besides Allah, if ye are truthful.
    Here is the same challenge adjusted to 10 Suras now
    Quran 011.013 Or they say: He hath invented it. Say: Then bring ten Suras, the like thereof, invented, and call on everyone ye can beside Allah, if ye are truthful! Two questions:
    Why would an omniscient Allah change his mind?
    Secondly why was it adjusted from 1 to 10 - is it possible to meet the challenge of one Sura?  If so, does that negate the earlier verse or is it a mistake by an all-seeing all-knowing creator?

    20)   Aren’t Muslims supposed to pray 5 times a day ?

    Quran 011.114 Establish worship at the two ends of the day and in some watches of the night. Lo! good deeds annul ill-deeds. This is reminder for the mindful.


    21)   A typical example of threat after threat, but haven’t bothered to list all of them here otherwise it would be almost the length of the Quran.  But here’s a typical example..

    Quran 012.041 O my two fellow-prisoners! As for one of you, he will pour out wine for his lord to drink; and as for the other, he will be crucified so that the birds will eat from his head.
    22)   I ask you again Allah, it’s too confusing for a message that is apparently clear, is wine ok to drink then?

    012.049 Then, after that, will come a year when the people will have plenteous crops and when they will press (wine and oil).
    23)   You heard it here first, wombs absorb babies.

    Quran 013.008 Allah knoweth that which every female beareth and that which the wombs absorb and that which they grow. And everything with Him is measured.
    24)   So Allah does punish in this life too.  Religionists are right in calling Tsuanami Allah’s punishment for disbelief in him? It says so right here..

    Quran 013.013 The thunder hymneth His praise and (so do) the angels for awe of Him. He launcheth the thunderbolts and smiteth with them whom He will while they dispute (in doubt) concerning Allah, and He is mighty in wrath

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #2 - March 27, 2010, 01:46 PM

    Two-thirds of the way through the Quran now.. Phew, it’s painful!


    25)   So Allah does answer prayers, not only for the next life, but this one also, contrary to what many liberals argue.  Like I have said many a time, so why are cancer survival statistics amongst Muslims, some of which who pray, amongst the lowest?

    Quran 013.014  Unto Him is the real prayer. Those unto whom they pray beside Allah respond to them not at all, save as (is the response to) one who stretcheth forth his hands toward water (asking) that it may come unto his mouth, and it will never reach it. The prayer of disbelievers goeth (far) astray.

    26)   Again prayers here is 2 times per day, not 5 times as per hadith.

    Quran 013.015 And unto Allah falleth prostrate whosoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, as do their shadows in the morning and the evening hours.

    27)   Heaven has a huge Arab bias, here’s an example with heaven offering shade and water – not much of incentive for those who already live in wet & dark European countries.   Was the Quran a message to people of all place & time, or just those belonging to the Arabic peninsula 1400 years ago?

    Quran 013.035 A similitude of the Garden which is promised unto those who keep their duty (to Allah): Underneath it rivers flow; its food is everlasting, and its shade; this is the reward of those who keep their duty, while the reward of disbelievers is the Fire.

    28)   What is so awful with loving & enjoying this life, if it’s the only one we have been granted?  Should an all loving merciful creator want this too?

    Quran 014.003 Those who love the life of the world more than the Hereafter, and debar (men) from the way of Allah and would have it crooked: such are far astray.

    29)   Again just Arabic fruit – The Quran is either predominantly a message to the Arabic people of the time.  If it’s for all man, then Allah was not aware of anything outside Arabia.

    Quran 016.011 Therewith He causeth crops to grow for you, and the olive and the date-palm and grapes and all kinds of fruit.

    30)   Hills acting as pegs to stop earthquakes

    Quran 016.015 And He hath cast into the earth firm hills that it quake not with you, and streams and roads that ye may find a way.

    31)   I’ve heard it all now – our shadows are prostrations to Allah!

    Quran 016.048 Have they not observed all things that Allah hath created, how their shadows incline to the right and to the left, making prostration unto Allah, and they are lowly ?

    32)   Again is alcohol haram – here it talks about it being a nourishing gift from God ?

    Quran 016.067 And of the fruits of the date-palm, and grapes, whence ye derive strong drink and (also) good nourishment. Lo! therein is indeed a portent for people who have sense.

    33)   Sounds like an observation from common man, not an almighty creator.  Bees don’t consume nectar from all fruits plants. They go to none fruits plants too.  They don’t even eat any fruit, just the nectar from the flowers.

    Quran 016.068 And thy Lord inspired the bee, saying: Choose thou habitations in the hills and in the trees and in that which they thatch;
    016.069 Then eat of all fruits, and follow the ways of thy Lord, made smooth (for thee
    ).

    34)   Again, still waiting to see if I can find a verse where alcohol is banned.  If the Quran was the final message of mankind, then why was alcohol only banned in the hadith?

    Quran 016.115 He hath forbidden for you only carrion and blood and swineflesh

    35)   It’s not just monotheists that are excused, anybody who doesn’t believe in the hereafter also get fried

    Quran 017.010 And that those who believe not in the Hereafter, for them We have prepared a painful doom.  

    36)   Another verse delivered especially for orphans (I wonder why Wink ) and still waiting to see if he care equally for others like disabled people

    Quran 017.034 Come not near the wealth of the orphan save with that which is better till he come to strength; and keep the covenant. Lo! of the covenant it will be asked.

    37)   The day of judgement will never happen.  When is it likely that every mother forgets about her kids, I mean EVERYone ?  This might be a reaction to his own sense of abandonment from childhood when he was rejected by his mother & was nursed by another woman.

    Quran 022.001 O mankind! Fear your Lord. Lo! the earthquake of the Hour (of Doom) is a tremendous thing.
    022.002 On the day when ye behold it, every nursing mother will forget her nursling and every pregnant one will be delivered of her burden
    .

    38)   Does this mean they're billions of souls just floating around or in limbo until they can go somewhere?

    Quran 022.007 And because the Hour will come, there is no doubt thereof; and because Allah will raise those who are in the graves.

    39)   100 whips for all adulterers

    Quran 024.002 The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes
    Yet, as expected by those who think the Quran is manmade, the prophets wives get double this punishment if they got involved with other men
    :

    33:30 O ye wives of the Prophet! Whosoever of you committeth manifest lewdness, the punishment for her will be doubled, and that is easy for Allah.      The wives of Muhammad will be punished double for lewdness. (And that is easy for Allah

    40)   However there is no such provision if a man accuses his wife of adultery, in which case his testimony is enough.

    Quran 024.006 As for those who accuse their wives but have no witnesses except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing) by Allah that he is of those who speak the truth;

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #3 - March 27, 2010, 01:47 PM

    41)   For those apologists that think the Quran is not anti-homosexual, this is in a separate section of the Quran to the Lot story, and points out exactly what abomination they were performing..
    Quran 027.054 And Lot! when he said unto his folk: Will ye commit abomination knowingly ?
    027.055 Must ye needs lust after men instead of women ? Nay, but ye are folk who act senselessly
    .

    42)   This one is interesting. Muhammad claims he married his adopted son’s wife because Allah decreed him to, so that it would no longer be a sin for people to marry their adopted sons wives.  A common problem that really needed to be addressed?  
    And it ends with “The commandment of Allah must be fulfilled” – so generous, always putting others first!

    Quran 033.037 And when thou saidst unto him on whom Allah hath conferred favour and thou hast conferred favour: Keep thy wife to thyself, and fear Allah. And thou didst hide in thy mind that which Allah was to bring to light, and thou didst fear mankind whereas Allah hath a better right that thou shouldst fear Him. So when Zeyd had performed that necessary formality (of divorce) from her, We gave her unto thee in marriage, so that (henceforth) there may be no sin for believers in respect of wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have performed the necessary formality (of release) from them. The commandment of Allah must be fulfilled.

    43)   Allah allowed the prophet to marry women as war booty?

    Quran 033.050 O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, ... a privilege for thee only not for the (rest of) believers

    44)   Does this mean it is a sin for a woman to talk to any other man?
    Quran 033.055 It is no sin for them (thy wives) to converse freely) with their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or the sons of their sisters or of their own women, or their slaves.

    45)   What about assexual reproductive species living in the animal/plant world, in which instance male/female pairs are not required?
    Quran 036.036 Glory be to Him Who created all the sexual pairs, of that which the earth groweth, and of themselves, and of that which they know not!

    46)   This gives the impression that the sun is orbiting the earth like the moon, and matches the pre-existing belief that the sun  was followed by the moon, so night followed day
    Quran 036.040 It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.

    47)   Perhaps Allah is serving tea & coffee hell (make that 1 sugar please)
    Quran 037.067 And afterward, lo! thereupon they have a drink of boiling water


    48)   We’ve had more than 8 breeds of cattle even in Mohammed’s time.  But you had to know that there was another world beyond the desert plains of Arabia that did not have the same natural environment.  If you had divine inspiration as you claim, you'd surely know that!
    Quran 039.006 He created you from one being, then from that (being) He made its mate; and He hath provided for you of cattle eight kinds.  

    49)   Oh merciful one, fine torture chamber you created
    Quran 047.015 are given boiling water to drink so that it teareth their bowels?

    50)   Again for those liberals who say Allah does not have an effect on this life, only on the hereafter.  Here is Allah protecting those on earth who believe in him.  If good muslims are better protected from evil, we should be able to get some figures on it e.g. psychosis, mental illness stats ?
    Quran 047.017 While as for those who walk aright, He addeth to their guidance, and giveth them their protection (against evil).

    51)   Allah knows before you die whether you are going to heaven or hell – so what’s the point?
    Quran 047.019 Allah knoweth (both) your place of turmoil and your place of rest.

    52)   Allah really is a nice guy, he rewards his followers with stolen goods.
    Quran 048.018 Allah was well pleased with the believers when they swore allegiance unto thee beneath the tree, and He knew what was in their hearts, and He sent down peace of reassurance on them, and hath rewarded them with a near victory;048.019 And much booty that they will capture. Allah is ever Mighty, Wise.
    048.020 Allah promiseth you much booty that ye will capture
    ,

    53)   The meaning of our lives according to our creator
    Quran 051.056 I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me.

    54)   This is a very good verse, and one that should be shown to every fanatic..
    Quran 060.008 Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers.

    55)   I feel uncomfortable with this idea about paying for women from rival clans
    Quran 060.010 O ye who believe! When believing women come unto you as fugitives, examine them. Allah is Best Aware of their faith. Then, if ye know them for true believers, send them not back unto the disbelievers. They are not lawful for them (the disbelievers), nor are they (the disbelievers) lawful for them. And give them (the disbelievers) that which they have spent (upon them). And it is no sin for you to marry such women when ye have given them their dues.  

    56)   Here is needy Allah again, wanting attention over children and wanting us to see them as a temptation rather than young beings who need time, attention & guidance.
    Quran 063.009 O ye who believe! Let not your wealth nor your children distract you from remembrance of Allah. Those who do so, they are the losers.
    Quran 064.015 your children are only a temptation, whereas Allah with Him is an immense reward
    .

    57)   Allah needs your money too..
    Quran 064.016 So keep your duty to Allah as best ye can, and listen, and obey, and spend; that is better for your souls. And whoso is saved from his own greed, such are the successful.
    064.017 If ye lend unto Allah a goodly loan, He will double it for you


    58)   Lo, Stop the Press: Allah turns informant & supergrass over petty wife gossip
    Quran 066.003 When the Prophet confided a fact unto one of his wives and when she afterward divulged it and Allah apprised him thereof, he made known (to her) part thereof and passed over part. And when he told it her she said: Who hath told thee ? He said: The Knower, the Aware hath told me.

    59)   It’s funny how the word “me” interchanges in the Quran to sometimes mean Muhammad e.g.
    Quran 003.183 Messengers came unto you before me with miracles
    and other times (like below) to mean Allah.  I wonder if the Prophet sometimes got a bit confused during his sermons as to who was supposedly the author of these words
    ..

    60)   I am getting tried up of this same pharaoh story. It has been repeated so many times in the Quran.  At least ten times, and not once has he told us to help the disabled or how to cure cancer (apart from treatments such as eating honey or black seeds).
    Quran 073.015 Lo! We have sent unto you a messenger as witness against you, even as We sent unto Pharaoh a messenger.

    61)   This one cannot be repeated enough as it’s a complete error.  Man is not created from a gushing fluid between the loins & the ribs, but from a fluid in the testicles and the female embryo
    Quran 086.005 So let man consider from what he is created.
    086.006 He is created from a gushing fluid
    086.007 That issued from between the loins and ribs.


    62)   This marks a typical example of the type of repeated paranoid rhetoric in the Quran. No surprise to me why believers today are obsessed with conspiracy theories for everything from the Holocaust to 911..
    Quran 086.015 Lo! they plot a plot (against thee, O Muhammad)
    086.016 And I plot a plot (against them). give a respite to the disbelievers. Deal thou gently with them for a while.
    088.004 Scorched by burning fire,
    088.005 Drinking from a boiling spring,
    088.006 No food for them save bitter thorn-fruit
    .

    63)   Anyone know anything more about this man, his uncle apparently– sounds like an interesting character, but what happened about the message that we must love all our family , including our uncles?  Or is it yet another rule that does not apply to prophets?
    Quran 111. 001 The power of Abu Lahab will perish, and he will perish.
    111.002 His wealth and gains will not exempt him.
    111.003 He will be plunged in flaming Fire,
    111.004 And his wife, the wood-carrier,
    111.005 Will have upon her neck a halter of palm-fibre
    .

    It may not surprise you to hear that after reading the Quran again, I am ever more surprised at how long this Quranic charade has lasted with whatever little substance it has.

    My review has mostly been negative, in order to add balance to otherwise sugar-coated areas amongst the Ummah.

    I have tried to be objective with my criticism, but I must add the Quran is not all bad. I came across some good verses too.  The freeing of slaves was the only new thing I came across in the Quran (despite the prophet owning a black slave called Bilal himself)

    Quran 090.013 (It is) to free a slave,
    090.014 And to feed in the day of hunger.
    090.015 An orphan near of kin,
    090.016 Or some poor wretch in misery
    ,

    THE END (for me & Allah)


    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #4 - March 27, 2010, 01:47 PM

    IsLame  says
    Quote
    I've been skim reading through the Pickthal translation.. Here follows some passages that caught my eye..

    what are you talking dear IsLame  ?  

    That guy Pickthal  was a PICKLE HEAD from England. Don't get that PICKLE in to your HEAD

    read real Translation Most modern...In the Name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate

    http://www.sublimequran.org/

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #5 - March 27, 2010, 01:51 PM

    IsLame  says what are you talking dear IsLame  ?  

    That guy Pickthal  was a PICKLE HEAD from England. Don't get that PICKLE in to your HEAD

    read real Translation Most modern...In the Name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate

    http://www.sublimequran.org/

    lol - this guy Laleh Bakhtiar is more disengenuous than Khalifa

    4:34 is transformed  from “to beat”  to  “to go away” Cheesy

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #6 - March 27, 2010, 01:56 PM

    .

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #7 - March 27, 2010, 01:57 PM

    .

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #8 - March 27, 2010, 02:02 PM

    .

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #9 - March 27, 2010, 02:03 PM

    .

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #10 - March 27, 2010, 02:06 PM

    004.043 O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye
    know that which ye utter...


    So its ok to get pissed up to the point that you can put together a coherent verse?

    .... nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying upon the
    road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from
    the closet, or ye have touched women,


    Women are dirty filthy creatures arent they mo?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #11 - March 27, 2010, 02:09 PM

    Islame
    Quote
    Cheers for the advice Mo.  I'll have to ask my mum to give me the engagement ring back.

     what?  why is your mom having YOUR engagement ring dear Islame? well that is o.k.  may be she is storing it safely.

    Or are you talking about Cousin marriages??  if that so., Be careful, it will be worse for you  if your Dad also need to worry about that.,

    couple of generations down, the  GENETICS kick in with all sorts complexities..  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #12 - March 27, 2010, 02:21 PM

    .

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #13 - March 27, 2010, 02:21 PM

    .

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #14 - March 27, 2010, 02:25 PM

    .

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #15 - March 27, 2010, 02:26 PM

    This is where I am up to so far..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #16 - March 27, 2010, 02:41 PM

    You reached the part where Allah says that the Christian Trinity is Mary, Jesus and God?
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #17 - March 27, 2010, 02:48 PM

    Who said Mo was forgiving, kind & a pacifist?

    005.045 And We prescribed for them therein: The life for the life, and the eye for the
    eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and
    for wounds retaliation.



    It says that it's better to forgive in 42:43:

    "But verily he who is patient and forgives — surely that is [true] constancy in [such] affairs."

    Which I thought was funny, because Allah doesn't seem to think that this virtue of forgiveness applies to him.

    Why didnt you mention alchohol here?


    Well, because Allah actually likes booze!

    16:67

    "And of the fruits of date-palms and vines from which you draw an intoxicant and goodly provision. Surely in that there is a sign for a people who understand."

  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #18 - March 27, 2010, 03:15 PM

    You reached the part where Allah says that the Christian Trinity is Mary, Jesus and God?

    Not yet, I think

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #19 - March 27, 2010, 03:18 PM

    16:67

    "And of the fruits of date-palms and vines from which you draw an intoxicant and goodly provision. Surely in that there is a sign for a people who understand."



    Wow, nice find.  Quran-onlies who are teetotal (the vast majority) should read this and weep! 

    Might be a good idea to raise this with AbuY & Debunker and see what they have to say, as I doubt either of them drink.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #20 - March 27, 2010, 03:30 PM

    Wow, nice find.  Quran-onlies who are teetotal (the vast majority) should read this and weep! 

    Might be a good idea to raise this with AbuY & Debunker and see what they have to say, as I doubt either of them drink.


    Well, this may be the loophole they're looking for!

    The Qur'an later on only explicity prohibits wine, so if a Qur'an-only wants to get pissed on cider or whiskey they can.  grin12
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #21 - March 27, 2010, 04:22 PM

    As well as a loophole (although according to a Quran-only its the truth), I think it points out Mohammeds constantly changing human state of mind..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #22 - March 27, 2010, 04:42 PM

    You might as well go the whole 9 yards, and bang out 101 contradictions while you're at it.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #23 - March 27, 2010, 04:50 PM


    I'm going to try and re-read too sometime soon.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #24 - March 27, 2010, 05:22 PM

    Personally, I think it's good to read the verses with the accompanying tafsir at altafsir.com so you know what the verse is actually talking about.

    I'm on suratul Hujurat, and boy, I can't wait til I'm finished.
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #25 - March 27, 2010, 05:25 PM

    I've never managed to read it cover to cover, partly because it get so boring after your eyes glaze over the words 'There is only one God and Muhammad is his messenger, obey them and you will prevail in the hereafter' for the 700th time.

    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #26 - March 27, 2010, 05:28 PM

    I thought that would happen to me too.  The trick is to skim read it, not to bother with those bits, and focus on the interesting stuff  Afro

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #27 - March 27, 2010, 05:34 PM

    I have read it (more like recited it) many times, specially during Ramadhan, but never really read it after my apostasy. Seems like a good idea.  Afro

    "In every time and culture there are pressures to conform to the prevailing prejudices. But there are also, in every place and epoch, those who value the truth; who record the evidence faithfully. Future generations are in their debt." -Carl Sagan

  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #28 - March 27, 2010, 06:00 PM

    Infidel says
    Quote
    I have read it (more like recited it) many times, specially during Ramadhan, but never really read it after my apostasy. Seems like a good idea.    Afro

    No..No dear friends., IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO READ QURAN agian whether you left Islam or not. And it is more important for all those who starts questioning Quran/Muhammad/Islam.. You must read Chapter by chapter .. Verse by verse..

    I went through that book number  of times and often I wrote in to FFI..

    http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42&start=0
    Before that I used to read the posts of mughal200 who is also here .
    http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=168
    http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=6360
    http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=3654

    Ha ! that was 8years back..

    Now I am actually reading that book with reference to its time frame? In other words which surah/ayah reveled when and why? As guys know that book is Jumbled up., Surah 2 comes out of Muhammad's mouth at the end of his life where as Surah 100 come in the beginning..

    Rascals who put together this silly book made more confusion and then all these Islamic Scholars run around in circles with never ending songs from it.


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #29 - March 27, 2010, 06:46 PM

    How did they, and how can we, ascertain the correct order?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • 12 3 ... 8 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »