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Theme Changer

 Topic: Islame re-reads the Quran

 (Read 91794 times)
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  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #210 - December 19, 2010, 09:37 PM

    ^lulz basically you can't understand the Qur'an you fagots and whatnot, you need an expert guide to explain it to you in fancy ways. Read that link if you want epic lulz.
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #211 - December 19, 2010, 10:48 PM

    @Tut: Au contraire, I'm sure you are more of a Qur'anic authority than I am and hold the superior interpretation. I would imagine you don't "need" anything, least of all a teacher to tell you how to read the Qur'an.

    I don't believe in teachers, in that sense. Any spiritual teacher is just another form of mind control.

    I've just got a complicated Sufi/Kabbalic reading for myself (and myself alone) -- and it's personally fun for me to pick the "contentious" verses because that's where things get most interesting for me -- hence my original "challenge" to IsLame. The most fun I've had in this thread though was J&T's Mariam problem, because that allowed me to talk about transmigration/Jungian archetypes.

    And of course the social discussion aspect is also fun for me. I do this kind of thing with Muslims, ex-Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus and so on -- quite regularly. Not to teach, only for the fun.

    And I always stop the tafsir when someone says "stop". Because curiously someone, whatever crowd I am talking to, will always use that key word -- "stop".

    TT

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #212 - December 19, 2010, 10:58 PM

    No I am not an authority on the Qur'an, if anything... I find the Qu'ran to be boring and repetitive, that is just my personal opinion. However, if you actually read your own captivating bullshit blog, you might realize that most of the critique we have presented of the Qu'ran you like to push it away as our inability to read inbetween the lines of the Qu'ran, and see its esoteric and metaphysical truth, hence you will help us get rid of our misunderstanding of the Qu'ran.
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #213 - December 19, 2010, 11:01 PM


    is cool with me - hasnt got my name linked to it anyway

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #214 - December 19, 2010, 11:02 PM

    We are all just fags and political dissidents and whatnot, what do we know...
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #215 - December 19, 2010, 11:10 PM

    @Islame -- thanks, very appreciated dude

    No I am not an authority on the Qur'an, if anything... I find the Qu'ran to be boring and repetitive, that is just my personal opinion. However, if you actually read your own captivating bullshit blog, you might realize that most of the critique we have presented of the Qu'ran you like to push it away as our inability to read inbetween the lines of the Qu'ran, and see its esoteric and metaphysical truth, hence you will help us get rid of our misunderstanding of the Qu'ran.


    Oh yes -- but that's just meant utterly ironically. I don't believe I'm capable of changing anyone's mind about anything -- hence the ironic voice -- that is clear to my regular readers -- but ought to also be clear from that particular piece (where the Tailor is experiencing assault from the Citizens of the Religion and it is clear he is hanging out with the Wildmen as a "teacher" to make him forget how dire things have got in the City for his "authority").

    (That said, I read irony in most of what Moses, Jesus and Muhammed say and do. Almost every word the Prophet says to certain members of the Sahaba as heavily laced with irony -- given that we all know they are about to kick his daughter to death when he dies. That's just me and Harold Bloom though.)

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #216 - December 19, 2010, 11:16 PM

    ..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #217 - December 19, 2010, 11:17 PM

    @Tut: the homosexual and political dissident tag was also a kind of complement. The Hafiz of Shiraz, Alan Ginsberg and Hakim Bey are some of my favourite exile artist/Sufis -- all are homosexual and political dissidents through and through. And "homosexual" means something else to me anyway, in the Sufic/Kabbalic reading -- just as "wife" does.

    Apologies to people who were offended at that. I guess my references are quite obscure at times, though the regular Sufi readers ought to get it as a complement.

    (Cosmic homosexuality, in the Kabbalic sense employed by Issac Luria, has been proposed as the solution to the Israel-Palestine problem, here: http://thegoodgarment.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/a-political-solution/)

    The Divisions of Love, second album by my Cabbalacore band, the Friends of Design, out now:

    https://vimeo.com/110528857
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #218 - December 19, 2010, 11:47 PM

    @Winna

    So are you saying that existence is not a physical predicate or something? Or is it that even purely conceptual subjects would also be regarded as existing according to Kant's definition of existence? That is, a purely conceptual entity does actually exist but it simply does so in a non-physical way, and is completely dependent upon the person thinking about it for its existence?


    No, according to Kant's definition of "existence" you can only apply the predicate with meaning for objects in the sphere of our possible experience - i.e. those for which we can have empirical data.
    A non-contradictory concept created in our mind is simply theoretically possible (as opposed to logically impossible = auto-contradictory), but as long as we have no experience of it we cannot apply meaningfully the predicate of existence.

    Whatever is outside the possible experience is outside our means to make verifiable statements. Pure constructs of the mind (like the idea of God) are outside our means to make verifiable statements. We can make non-contradictory statements, but they are nothing but that.
    Since existence is not a real predicate (it doesn't add something to the object, it merely poses our relation to it), existence cannot be deduced from a concept. i.e. if I can have the concept of God as omnipotent etc, and perfect (better than anything else I can imagine) and I try to state from it that it has to exist (because, lets say, "something that exists is better than something that doesn't") I committed an error: it's an illusion that existence would add something to my concept; to state existence I need an empirical component - i.e. an experience or potential experience of the object - otherwise my concept is still just a theoretical possibility (logical non-contradiction, like an unicorn), not an object of my experience.
    I can construct a concept anyway you want (as long as it doesn't contradict logic), but I can never state or deduce existence of an object for it, unless I can have it in the sphere of my possible experience - which, for God, he denies it.

    There is something special about the concept of God (as compared to unicorn), though. It's that our reason needs (among others) to see a cause in everything, thus it tends towards posing a cause of a cause of a cause etc, and to see an end of the chain. But the end of the chain is outside our possible experience, thus we get fooled thinking that we can say it "exists" since: we can only have knowledge about what's in the realm of our (potential) experience, and the primal cause, as needed by our reason as it is, is not within it.

    i.e. I can think whatever I want (logically non-contradictory, I can't think of a squared triangle), but in order to state existence of an object for my concept, I need an empirical test.
    Basically, if I may put it this way, the entire development of criticizing religion by asking for a proof (= a proof submitted to the criteria of science, meaning empirically verifiable at least in principle), stems from it.
    (though, Kant quite denies it's useful to keep asking for that, since we already constructed the concept as outside the possible experience Smiley)

    The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #219 - December 20, 2010, 12:04 AM

    OTT

    @The tailor

    Have you read The Monstrosity of Christ?
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #220 - December 20, 2010, 03:44 PM

    @Winna

    I've started a new thread for this subject, in which I've responded to your last post.  Smiley

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=13791.msg381776;topicseen#new
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #221 - December 20, 2010, 05:00 PM

    @Tut: the homosexual and political dissident tag was also a kind of complement. The Hafiz of Shiraz, Alan Ginsberg and Hakim Bey are some of my favourite exile artist/Sufis -- all are homosexual and political dissidents through and through. And "homosexual" means something else to me anyway, in the Sufic/Kabbalic reading -- just as "wife" does.

    Apologies to people who were offended at that. I guess my references are quite obscure at times, though the regular Sufi readers ought to get it as a complement.

    (Cosmic homosexuality, in the Kabbalic sense employed by Issac Luria, has been proposed as the solution to the Israel-Palestine problem, here: http://thegoodgarment.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/a-political-solution/)

    Personally I am not one, a homosexual that is. I find being proud of homosexuality as silly as racism.
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #222 - January 07, 2011, 12:48 AM

    Might as well go out with a bang.

    Nope. You get to go out with a whimper as the wimp you are. -admins
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #223 - November 04, 2011, 01:57 PM

    I find that reading the Quran makes no sense unless you read it along with the tafsirs. Plus when you read the tafsirs it makes it easier to debate muslims because tafsirs give the context as well.

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Re: Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #224 - March 01, 2012, 02:15 PM

    Tafsirs usually give apologetic context based on the era tafsir was written. You can easily guess much better context by actual words of quran.

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #225 - April 28, 2015, 05:39 AM

    Quote
    TRUTH ABOUT THE KORAN AND ISLAM (ANCIENT LOST SECRET HISTORY DOCUMENTARY)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Hjw8zG610

    IT CONTAINS ANCIENT LOST SECRET HISTORY   ...............  Well Read Quran again.... All of  you guys...

    well they don't like to spread what they talk . that is all right we have plenty more ..

    The Holy Quran: Divine Revelation or Human Fabrication?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXGRJ84F7gI


    DECODING THE PAST: SECRETS OF THE KORAN - Documentary

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duEsJof50K0

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Islame re-reads the Quran
     Reply #226 - April 28, 2015, 08:07 PM

    Video is blocked!
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