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 Topic: You Can't Leave Islam!

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  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #180 - March 31, 2010, 02:53 AM
    No.. he filed it on the videos that contained clips from vfx's videos, but that's covered under 'fair use'. 'critisim, commentary, satire, etc' are covered under fair use.
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #181 - March 31, 2010, 03:34 AM
    Yes muslim can leave Islam,  people who say there is  death sentence for that are mistaken ...  Perhaps they themselves deserve death sentence more than anybody else.
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #182 - March 31, 2010, 04:13 AM
    Quote from: iffo on March 31, 2010, 03:34 AM
    people who say there is  death sentence for that are mistaken ...


    How so?

    Are you telling me the scholars of saudi arabia are mistaken? Are you saying this man, who is head of a muslim school organization in the UK, is mistake?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQzuFrMRA3M

    What makes you more qualified than all the great scholars of islam who assert death the penalty?
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #183 - March 31, 2010, 04:21 AM
    Quote from: iffo on March 31, 2010, 03:34 AM
    Yes muslim can leave Islam,  people who say there is  death sentence for that are mistaken ...  Perhaps they themselves deserve death sentence more than anybody else.


    Who is mistaken? The Muslims calling for death penalty or the ones that say there is a death penalty?

    If it is the latter then you must be completely brainwashed to think that
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #184 - March 31, 2010, 05:19 AM
    Of course iffo is totally brainwashed.
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #185 - March 31, 2010, 05:24 AM
    Quote from: iffo on March 31, 2010, 03:34 AM
    Yes muslim can leave Islam,  people who say there is  death sentence for that are mistaken ...  Perhaps they themselves deserve death sentence more than anybody else.


    Unfortunately, as Muhammad Asad noted in 'This law of ours', there is a tendency to elevate the opinions of classical jurists as the final say on Islamic law whilst ignoring that these were made in a specific context.

    Unfortunately in the post colonial world, the best reasoning I heard was how scholars are chosen today; those who are the smartest become doctors, then followed by lawyers, then so on and so on with the dregs of society being shipped off to the local religious school. So what you end up getting these days are over weight, long bearded people called 'scholars' whose only understanding of fiqh comes from rote learning of classical jurist writings. Imagine 200 years of that crap and you've got what you see today - the chap in the called 'Dr Muhammad Mukadam' (a doctorate of questionable quality) giving his five cents worth because he wasn't smart enough to be a real doctor or a lawyer or an engineer etc.
    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #186 - March 31, 2010, 06:35 AM
    Quote from: iffo on March 31, 2010, 03:34 AM
    Yes muslim can leave Islam,  people who say there is  death sentence for that are mistaken ...  Perhaps they themselves deserve death sentence more than anybody else.


    Excellent iffo - now please go and convince the "vast majority" of Muslim scholars around the world - then come back and proudly declare there is no death sentence in Islam.

    Until you do - your words are empty!


  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #187 - March 31, 2010, 06:50 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 31, 2010, 06:35 AM
    Excellent iffo - now please go and convince the "vast majority" of Muslim scholars around the world - then come back and proudly declare there is no death sentence in Islam.

    Until you do - your words are empty!

    (Clicky for piccy!)


    It is difficult to convince people who have a vested interest in the status quo just like it is difficult to tell the 55% of South East Asians who marry their cousins in the UK that incest is a bad idea.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4442010.stm

    I guess fucking your cousin is of greater importance than ensuring your off spring is healthy.
    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #188 - March 31, 2010, 01:25 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 31, 2010, 06:35 AM
    Excellent iffo - now please go and convince the "vast majority" of Muslim scholars around the world - then come back and proudly declare there is no death sentence in Islam.

    Until you do - your words are empty!



    (Clicky for piccy!)


    Actually I don't think vast majority approve killing for leaving Islam. You can not blame Islam for what some scholars are saying or some illetrate muslims say or believe .  There is ample proof that there is no such thing as killing for leaving Islam even in quran.

    To those who advocate killing screw them. These islamic scholars say lot of things, to hell with these scholars. In most of the Islamic countries there is no such thing as death sentence for leaving Islam.  Don't allow these mullahs to define Islam for you.
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #189 - March 31, 2010, 01:30 PM
    Quote from: Iblis on March 31, 2010, 04:13 AM
    How so?

    Are you telling me the scholars of saudi arabia are mistaken? Are you saying this man, who is head of a muslim school organization in the UK, is mistake?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQzuFrMRA3M

    What makes you more qualified than all the great scholars of islam who assert death the penalty?



    They are not qualified, they don't have any backdoor to heaven for their information. I say Fuck them if they advocate killing.
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #190 - March 31, 2010, 01:34 PM
    Quote from: iffo on March 31, 2010, 01:25 PM
    Actually I don't think vast majority approve killing for leaving Islam. You can not blame Islam for what some scholars are saying or some illetrate muslims say or believe .  

    To those who advocate killing screw them. These islamic scholars say lot of things, to hell with these scholars. In most of the Islamic countries there is no such thing as death sentence for leaving Islam.  Don't allow these mullahs to define Islam for you.


    We're not, its in the sahih hadith & shariah laws too.  Pretty succinct too, leaving little room for interpretation.  Here it is:

    Sahih Bukhari 4:260 The Prophet said, ‘If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.’ 
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  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #191 - March 31, 2010, 01:37 PM
    Predictable:

    turkmuslim4ever (58 minutes ago)

    well someone who accepts islam should know this before but i dont believe there is such thing as ex muslim Smiley they just became so called muslim to do this to let people think this is bad side of islam hypocrits
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #192 - March 31, 2010, 01:54 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 31, 2010, 01:34 PM
    We're not, its in the sahih hadith & shariah laws too.  Pretty succinct too, leaving little room for interpretation.  Here it is:

    Sahih Bukhari 4:260 The Prophet said, ‘If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.’ 


    This hadith is bogus, it contradicts head on with Quran.  I don't want to write all over again I wrote it before where qurans proves there is no such thing as kill the person who leaves Islam.  This hadith can go to garbage can.
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #193 - March 31, 2010, 01:55 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 31, 2010, 06:35 AM
    Excellent iffo - now please go and convince the "vast majority" of Muslim scholars around the world - then come back and proudly declare there is no death sentence in Islam.

    Until you do - your words are empty!


    (Clicky for piccy!)


    Hass, I think this is a little unfair. You cannot expect iffo, me or any other ordinary peaceful Muslims to go around the world trying to convince scholars and Imams that the death penalty for apostasy is wrong. First of all it's impractical and would not work - we are not scholars and have no authority in those countries, don't speak the language - it's totally impractical for these and a number of other reasons. You know as well as I do we'd be dismissed without a moments thought. If I thought that what I say or other Western Muslims said could make a difference to the policies in these countries I'm sure we'd at least try - but we all know it would be in vain.

    If the threat in this country ever became real, it would be much more practical for me and other Muslims to do something about it - even though we are not scholars we are citizens of this country and what we say could make an impact. It's always up to people in the countries themselves to make the change - otherwise it would just be inneffective.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #194 - March 31, 2010, 01:57 PM
    Quote from: iffo on March 31, 2010, 01:54 PM
    This hadith is bogus, it contradicts head on with Quran.  I don't want to write all over again I wrote it before where qurans proves there is no such thing as kill the person who leaves Islam.  This hadith can go to garbage can.



    Spot on. It's as clear as day to see.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #195 - March 31, 2010, 02:08 PM
    Quote from: iffo on March 31, 2010, 01:54 PM
    This hadith is bogus, it contradicts head on with Quran.  I don't want to write all over again I wrote it before where qurans proves there is no such thing as kill the person who leaves Islam.  This hadith can go to garbage can.



    Look at this verse:

    5:33: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

    You may have your interpretation of what "waging war against Allah" or "spreading mischief in the land" means, but I know that in the eyes of many Muslims what we are doing here with the forum, the wiki and the YouTube channels is to attack Islam, and thereby create fitnah in Muslim families or societies. An Islamic state would be justified by this verse to punish apostates who speak out against Islam and try to persuade Muslims away from their faith. Of course, you would object to that, but as far as I can see many Muslims (even so-called moderate ones) would support something like that.

    What do you think of freedom of speech? Would you like seeing this forum shut down? In your ideal Islamic state, would we be free to criticize, debate and even mock Islam publicly?
    German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
    Wikis: en – de – fr – ar – tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #196 - March 31, 2010, 02:09 PM
    Quote from: abuyunus2 on March 31, 2010, 01:55 PM
    Hass, I think this is a little unfair. You cannot expect iffo, me or any other ordinary peaceful Muslims to go around the world trying to convince scholars and Imams that the death penalty for apostasy is wrong. First of all it's impractical and would not work - we are not scholars and have no authority in those countries, don't speak the language - it's totally impractical for these and a number of other reasons. You know as well as I do we'd be dismissed without a moments thought. If I thought that what I say or other Western Muslims said could make a difference to the policies in these countries I'm sure we'd at least try - but we all know it would be in vain.

    If the threat in this country ever became real, it would be much more practical for me and other Muslims to do something about it - even though we are not scholars we are citizens of this country and what we say could make an impact. It's always up to people in the countries themselves to make the change - otherwise it would just be inneffective.


    So you've just admitted that Muslims are helpless to ever do anything about changing Islam because the scholars basically have Muslims in a vice like grip.



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #197 - March 31, 2010, 02:16 PM
    ''So you've just admitted that Muslims are helpless to ever do anything about changing Islam because the scholars basically have Muslims in a vice like grip.''


    No actually I was trying to get at the opposite. It's possible for Muslims to change the 'Islam' of radical scholars - but it needs to be done from within those countries themselves, otherwise it would be totally innefective and even counter-productive.
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #198 - March 31, 2010, 02:18 PM
    Quote
    No actually I was trying to get at the opposite. It's possible for Muslims to change the 'Islam' of radical scholars - but it needs to be done from within those countries themselves, otherwise it would be totally innefective and even counter-productive.

     

    How are you going to do it when you say that you can't reply to the mullahs and scholars because you're not qualified.

    Also, the Islam of other countries affects Muslims in Britain. The scholars of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia directly affects British Muslims and non Muslims alike. Saying its counter-productive seems like a cop out.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #199 - March 31, 2010, 02:31 PM
    ''How are you going to do it when you say that you can't reply to the mullahs and scholars because you're not qualified.''

    We can try and reply to the Mullahs and scholars in this country, just like ordinary citizens in Iran have been trying to respond to the Mullahs and scholars in their own country. What I'm saying it impractical for ordinary Muslims from Britain trying to go round convincing Mullahs and scholars in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia about their own policies - it wouldn't work would it?
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #200 - March 31, 2010, 02:34 PM
    Quote
    We can try and reply to the Mullahs and scholars in this country, just like ordinary citizens in Iran have been trying to respond to the Mullahs and scholars in their own country. What I'm saying it impractical for ordinary Muslims from Britain trying to go round convincing Mullahs and scholars in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia about their own policies - it wouldn't work would it?


    If Muslims want to address those issues address them at the root source where British mullahs and scholars take their cue from. Otherwise that is a recipe for not doing anything at all.

    The more that I think about it the more I do believe that a mass campaign of demands that every single scholar and Islamic organisation and mullah in Britain utterly denounces the apostacy idiocies of textbook Islam. They should be forced to address this through public pressure. Smoke them out.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #201 - March 31, 2010, 07:35 PM
    Wow! Only 48 hours and over 4000 views!

    How about making another co-operative video guys?

    Maybe clips of ex-Muslims dancing to a song! lol  grin12

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykT8OXsZoj4
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #202 - March 31, 2010, 07:57 PM
    Wow  dance  Have a look at the stats for the video and see where all these hits are coming from..
    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #203 - March 31, 2010, 08:01 PM
    Where?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #204 - March 31, 2010, 08:04 PM
    The comments are hilarious. 4101 views within a couple of days, that's impressive. I'm going to say this vid breaks 10,000 within the next 7 days.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #205 - March 31, 2010, 08:06 PM
    We should post up some of the best comments with the vid on our front page. parrot
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #206 - March 31, 2010, 08:08 PM
    According to stats its the #11 - Top Rated (This Week)) - People & Blogs

    Quote from: osmanthus on March 31, 2010, 08:01 PM
    Where?

    It was addressed to Hass as only he can see it

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  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #207 - March 31, 2010, 08:12 PM
    Yes I realise I can't see that stats, that's why I was asking where the hits are coming from. Tongue

    Not much point mentioning it in a public thread if the information is top secret. Tongue Tongue
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #208 - March 31, 2010, 08:23 PM
    Is this what you mean. IsLame?



  • Re: You Can't Leave Islam!
     Reply #209 - March 31, 2010, 08:24 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on March 31, 2010, 08:23 PM
    Is this what you mean. IsLame?

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    (Clicky for piccy!)


    It's most popular in Canada.  dance
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

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