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Theme Changer

 Topic: Top Ex-Muslim Myths

 (Read 48257 times)
  • 12 3 ... 14 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     OP - March 31, 2010, 01:26 AM

    Warning: This exercise is only for the brave.

    There is a great teaching in Islam that exhorts Muslims to constantly evaluate themselves, their intentions, their faith, and the truth of their words. This teaching is useful for Ex-Muslims as well.

    Have you ever heard an Ex-Muslim say something that is a bit 'off' about Islam? Do you find yourself hearing this same thing again and again? If so, you might have found an Ex-Muslim myth!

    Post your Ex-Muslim myths here!

    Here are a few I came across recently:

    ‘Muhammad was a Pedophile.’

    ‘Muslims live a hopeless desperate life.’

    ‘Islam has little relevance beyond being a sort of curiosity or amusement.’

    ‘There is little value in the original impetus and story of Islam.’

    ‘Muhammad is a blood thirsty murderer as exhibited by the slaughter of Banu Qurayza’.

    I would love to include 'Muhammad was possessed by a demon' but that is actually a Christian myth about Islam, that's a whole thread by itself lol.

    Assalamu alaykum : )
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #1 - March 31, 2010, 02:03 AM

    wrong forums.

    Maybe try www.ummah.com?

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #2 - March 31, 2010, 02:09 AM

    But Muhammad was a Pedophile Huh?
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #3 - March 31, 2010, 02:15 AM

    I also find it odd that a person who supposedly thinks Islam is simple mythology is also so defensive of it. When was the last time a Greek started getting bent out of shape over mischaracterisations of Zeus? Grin


    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #4 - March 31, 2010, 02:20 AM

    Clearly this guy is a Muslim in Disguise

    Quote
    There is a great teaching in Islam that exhorts Muslims to constantly evaluate themselves, their intentions, their faith, and the truth of their words.


    Nonsensical BS. Islam  only exhorts Muslims to evaluate themselves based on the boundaries it set. Another way to keep the Muslim in check.
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #5 - March 31, 2010, 02:22 AM

    Ummah.com Troll?

    But seriously, try harder next time. You pretty much sucked at it.  Roll Eyes

    Here, have some Zamzam water to refreshed yourself with its salty flavour.

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #6 - March 31, 2010, 02:24 AM

    Here, have some Zamzam water to refreshed yourself with its salty flavour.


     Cheesy


    I don't know what he was thinking though, this place is like a den of trolls. Silly musulman, lol.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #7 - March 31, 2010, 02:25 AM

    From a different Post you sad this
    Quote
    I believe that you guys simply hate Islam so much that you can't stand that someone like me has any kind of positive connection to it.


    You failed to realize that critical analysis of Islam doesn't equate to hating Islam. Exposing Islam for its evils isn't a hatred.
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #8 - March 31, 2010, 03:28 AM

    Most of his "myths" are subjective. Fail.

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    - 32nd United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #9 - March 31, 2010, 03:30 AM

    .
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #10 - March 31, 2010, 03:34 AM

    Oh yes...the "you are taking it out of context" argument.  Roll Eyes

    For a religion that INSISTS that Muhammad is the "Best Example for Mankind to follow for all eras", things as 'oh that was a different time and place' because of actions that frankly are disgusting today as per our own social evolution, Muhammad's holier-than-thou image takes a real battering.

    Best example for mankind? Fat chance, akhi.

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #11 - March 31, 2010, 03:36 AM

    .
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #12 - March 31, 2010, 03:41 AM

    You sound hurt.  Wink Aww.

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #13 - March 31, 2010, 03:44 AM

    If Muhammad was a pedophile can you imagine how many pedophile grandfathers you have? Muhammad's marriage to Aisha was an arranged marriage. It was arranged when she was 6 or 7 and they were married when she was 9 or 10. That is how they did things back then. Why? That is a question for cultural anthropology. I would guess that just about all of us have a number of ancestors who did this, as this wasn't specific to Arab culture alone. That brings up another point - Muhammad didn't invent this practice so why does he get the blame? He is just another Arab guy in 7th century Arabia getting an arranged marriage. Your real contention is with Arab culture and arranged marriages. Why do you expect Muhammad to act outside of his culture? You know he wasn't a prophet. I'm not saying this practice is ok, or that we should accept it for whatever practical reasons it originally served, but he wasn't a pedophile.

    His first wife was 15 years his senior and he was married to her for 25 years. His other wives were in their 20s, 30s, or older.

    Ok, fair points as far as they go but you are overlooking some things.

    1/ As far as I am aware none of our grandparents claimed to be prophets.
    2/ If they did make that claim I am fairly sure they were not taken seriously.
    3/ In any case, the morality or immorality of our grandparents is not the subject of discussion.
    4/ Mohammed did claim to be a prophet and was and still is taken seriously.
    5/ If, as claimed, Mohammed really is the perfect example for all men for all time then all men today should be screwing nine year old girls.
    6/ However, any man that screws nine year old girls these days is classified as a paedophile.
    7/ The fact that a paedophile may have also had sex with adult women is not enough to stop them being classified as a paedophile. That classification rests on what they do with children, not on what they do with anyone else.
    8/ It was not an arranged marriaqe in the normal sense, because Mohammed deliberately arranged it for himself over the protests of some of the other people around him.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #14 - March 31, 2010, 03:58 AM

    If Muhammad was a pedophile can you imagine how many pedophile grandfathers you have?

    Yea, I probably did. I probably also had many murderer, rapist, genocidial bastards amongst my ancestors. So did everyone else. So what? None of them claimed to be a prophet who is the best example for all times. If they did, and they had a following as big as mohammed, I wouldn't hesitate from calling them a pedophile as well.

    Quote
    Muhammad didn't invent this practice so why does he get the blame? He is just another Arab guy in 7th century Arabia getting an arranged marriage. Your real contention is with Arab culture and arranged marriages. Why do you expect Muhammad to act outside of his culture?

    When you knowingly have sex with a 9 year old when you are 60 years old, there's simply no other way to put it, you are a pedophile. I don't really give a rat's tail about the culturual traditions. Your individual actions are what count. Its my culture that I should suppress my sisters and nieces, try to make them wear a hijab, etc, or to consider the christians as unclean. And to marry girls younger than 18 as well. I don't follow any of these retarded cultural traditions. And I'm 20 years old. If I have the decency/common sense to not follow idiotic traditions, why should Mohammed not be held responsible for going along with that barbaric custom when he was 40 years older than me and presumably much more experienced as well?
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #15 - March 31, 2010, 04:00 AM

    8/ It was not an arranged marriaqe in the normal sense, because Mohammed deliberately arranged it for himself over the protests of some of the other people around him.

    Good point. And perhaps this guy is forgetting the other hadith where Mohammed asked a guy 'why don't you marry a young girl so that she may play with you' or something like that.
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #16 - March 31, 2010, 04:02 AM

    If you can't be critical of yourselves you are unable to do any kind of serious critical analysis. I see a lot of nonsense on the forum. Someone suggested I leave the forum and go elsewhere, I probably will. We'll see. I think it is interesting that not one of you assholes could take a second and look at yourselves. Whenever someone criticizes me I always look at myself. You have to learn to swallow your ego - another great teaching of Islam (and religion in general). Didn't you guys go through any kind of tarbiyah as Muslims? Didn't you learn anything? Really disappointing...


    No one is asking you to leave the forum. We were merely saying if you are a Muslim and wish to discuss Islam, you may do so freely without acting like a troll Ex Muslim here.

    Exactly what do I need to be critical of myself to do a critical analysis of Islam. I am not an ideology, Islam is

    Since Islam has all these good things like you state, then why did you leave Islam in the first place? Seem like you are having problems letting go of Islam and now are using illogical reasoning to rationalize yourself
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #17 - March 31, 2010, 04:06 AM

    I wont be surprised if this guy turned out to be tut, by the way..
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #18 - March 31, 2010, 04:09 AM

    Quote
    1/ As far as I am aware none of our grandparents claimed to be prophets.
    2/ If they did make that claim I am fairly sure they were not taken seriously.
    3/ In any case, the morality or immorality of our grandparents is not the subject of discussion.
    4/ Mohammed did claim to be a prophet and was and still is taken seriously.
    5/ If, as claimed, Mohammed really is the perfect example for all men for all time then all men today should be screwing nine year old girls.
    6/ However, any man that screws nine year old girls these days is classified as a paedophile.
    7/ The fact that a paedophile may have also had sex with adult women is not enough to stop them being classified as a paedophile. That classification rests on what they do with children, not on what they do with anyone else.
    8/ It was not an arranged marriaqe in the normal sense, because Mohammed deliberately arranged it for himself over the protests of some of the other people around him.


    - 1/2/3/4/5 Whether they were Prophet or not doesn't matter. We all agree here that Muhammad wasn't a Prophet, thus he was an Arab man of the 7th century. The question is whether he is a pedophile. I am saying that he did nothing different than many of your grandfathers. Are you ready to call your grandfathers pedophiles? Or is there perhaps more than meets the eye here?

    - 6/7 In the USA, we still have Gypsys who arrange their daughters for marriage at a very early age, as young (ironically) as 9 years old. We have some Christian religious groups who arrange their daughters at a very young age as well. Of course we all know Muslims and people in many of our home countries, in the Middle East or the Sub-Continent, still practice arranged marriage with children. Are all these people pedophiles? In the USA it is illegal to marry a child. A pedophile to us is usually a guy who kidnaps children and has sex with them, and might even kill them. That isn't what Muhammad did. That isn't what people around the world do. That isn't what many of our grandfathers did.

    - 8 Aisha was actually arranged to marry someone else before Muhammad. No one protested Muhammad's marriage to Aisha. Abu Bakr thought that since Muhammad was his 'brother', as Muhammad had been teaching them that they are all brothers, perhaps Aisha would then be somehow forbidden for Muhammad, he thought Muhammad was as a mahram to Aisha. Muhammad seems to have encouraged all of his closest Companions to intermarry into each other's families. I believe that this was a strategy on his part.

    You guys speak about Muhammad like he was prowling around parks in a trench coat or something. It was an arranged marriage and it isn't even so much an act of Muhammad as it is an act of 7th century tribal Arabia.

    Now I don't mean to say I think this is a good practice, I don't think it is. If it was pedophilia I would have no problem in recognizing that. It just isn't though. If you want to use this as a proof against Muhammad's prophethood I think that it works in the sense that you can point out that God should know that child marriage violates such and such. However, if Muhammad is a just another man of 7th century tribal Arabia, what do you expect him to know?



  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #19 - March 31, 2010, 04:10 AM

    I very much doubt he is Tut.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #20 - March 31, 2010, 04:10 AM

    IslamMythology, I will give you this. You are right, part of being an Ex Muslim doesn't mean we have to belittle Islam or Muhammad. When we do so, its usually in sarcasm and jokes

    But what you are trying to do is tell us that we have the wrong perception of what Islam is and we are not getting the correct message. This seems like you are a Muslim trying to persuade us your views or you are an Ex Muslim who is having a very difficult time leaving the grasp of Islam
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #21 - March 31, 2010, 04:13 AM

    Of course our ancestors, if they fucked children, were pedophiles too. No one here denies this, do we?  Huh?. Your attempt to appeal to emotions is not working.


    Os - the Datapacrat account was online just now as well, both that account and this being online at the same time?
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #22 - March 31, 2010, 04:14 AM

    .
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #23 - March 31, 2010, 04:16 AM

    IslamMythology this what a nine year old girl looks like




    I highly doubt any 9 year old understands the concept of Marriage
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #24 - March 31, 2010, 04:17 AM

    Go ahead. We "Takfeeris" (as you so eloquently put it) are all ears here.  Roll Eyes

    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #25 - March 31, 2010, 04:17 AM

    - 1/2/3/4/5 Whether they were Prophet or not doesn't matter. We all agree here that Muhammad wasn't a Prophet, thus he was an Arab man of the 7th century. The question is whether he is a pedophile. I am saying that he did nothing different than many of your grandfathers. Are you ready to call your grandfathers pedophiles? Or is there perhaps more than meets the eye here?

    If my grandfather had screwed a nine year old girl when he was in his fifties then yes, I would call him a paedophile.


    Quote
    - 6/7 In the USA, we still have Gypsys who arrange their daughters for marriage at a very early age, as young (ironically) as 9 years old. We have some Christian religious groups who arrange their daughters at a very young age as well. Of course we all know Muslims and people in many of our home countries, in the Middle East or the Sub-Continent, still practice arranged marriage with children. Are all these people pedophiles? In the USA it is illegal to marry a child. A pedophile to us is usually a guy who kidnaps children and has sex with them, and might even kill them. That isn't what Muhammad did. That isn't what people around the world do. That isn't what many of our grandfathers did.

    Paedophilia of itself has nothing whatsoever to do with kidnapping and murder. Those are separate topics. Paedophilia is simply a sexual interest in children.

    And yes, if the groups you mention are promoting adult men having sex with young girls then they are promoting paedophilia and/or the sexual abuse of children, however you wish to phrase it.


    Quote
    - 8 Aisha was actually arranged to marry someone else before Muhammad. No one protested Muhammad's marriage to Aisha. Abu Bakr thought that since Muhammad was his 'brother', as Muhammad had been teaching them that they are all brothers, perhaps Aisha would then be somehow forbidden for Muhammad, he thought Muhammad was as a mahram to Aisha. Muhammad seems to have encouraged all of his closest Companions to intermarry into each other's families. I believe that this was a strategy on his part.

    You guys speak about Muhammad like he was prowling around parks in a trench coat or something. It was an arranged marriage and it isn't even so much an act of Muhammad as it is an act of 7th century tribal Arabia.

    Now I don't mean to say I think this is a good practice, I don't think it is. If it was pedophilia I would have no problem in recognizing that. It just isn't though. If you want to use this as a proof against Muhammad's prophethood I think that it works in the sense that you can point out that God should know that child marriage violates such and such. However, if Muhammad is a just another man of 7th century tribal Arabia, what do you expect him to know?

    Ok, you can take that line if you want to but it has nothing to do with Islam as such, because it directly contradicts the tenets of Islam. Hence, it is hardly relevant to discussions about Islam or to conversations with Muslims.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #26 - March 31, 2010, 04:19 AM

    CAN I GET A DECENT FUCKING DISCUSSION ON ISLAM ANYWHERE ON THE INTERNET???

     grin12 It's difficult, but you've probably got as good a chance here as anywhere else.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #27 - March 31, 2010, 04:19 AM

    myths.. mm .. anyone else been told to say dastour before pouring hot water... u know .. to save the gins from getting burned .. even thou they're made of fire and all that jazz... Huh?
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #28 - March 31, 2010, 04:22 AM

    .
  • Re: Top Ex-Muslim Myths
     Reply #29 - March 31, 2010, 04:23 AM

    Pedophelia is NOT just kidnapping children and murdering them, pedophelia is a psychological disorder in which you feel sexual attraction towards under-developed children. The fact that someone was able to get a hard on at all for a 9 year old child means that he was a pedophile, and mohammed clearly did that since he fucked her when he was 58-60, and she was 9.

    A lot of other people having this tradition as well does NOT make it ok as well. Honor killings are also a cultural tradition, do the people who carry them out are not murderers now?
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