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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Your position on prostitution is that we should....?
  • Ban it
  • Legalize it but keep procuring (pimping and brothels) illegal
  • Legalize both prostitution and procuring but with no regulation
  • Legalize it and regulate it

 Topic: Prostitution

 (Read 19424 times)
  • 12 3 ... 5 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Prostitution
     OP - March 31, 2010, 08:29 AM
    The news that Iceland has banned prostitution and strip clubs prompted me to start this thread. Here is a report on it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHIpSFR4NlY


    If you can't or don't want to watch the video, they're basically saying that this should be the feminist position. They pride themselves in having the highest proportion of female MPs of any other country and in having an elected lesbian head of government.


    Anyway, I think prostitution should be fully legalized. The first argument is the freedom of choice but even if that is not sufficient for you then I think one could make a strong case that the prostitutes' welfare and health would be enhanced if it is legalized. Just ask a hooker in Holland or Germany and another one in the States.


    Not only that but also, I genuinely believe that advocating legalization should be the feminist position specially in high-income countries with a social safety net. Yes some are abused and forced to this by pimps but if we legalize it and remove the stigma we can tackle these issues more effectively.

    I agree that it objectifies women but almost every other job does this to a certain extent. In the literal sense of the word, even a construction worker is being reduced to an object (machine).
    It also gives women a leg up on men. Because of our biological nature and social conventions (in developed countries at least)  the women have the upper hand when it comes to dating and I think women have the right to make use of that.
    Just like men dominate certain job sectors owing to their physical power, women can use their sexuality.

    Of course many of you will protest (and rightly so) and say that renting your body as a manual laborer is not the same as renting your body as a prostitute. I partially agree with that but only because of the social stigma around prostitution. 
    Once we legalize it we can remove the stigma and look at prostitutes as contributing members of our society who provide a needed service, same as a construction worker, a masseur/masseuse, or a pedicurist.

    My final argument is that a ban is not gonna solve the problem, it'll only drive it underground.


    Lastly, to make the discussion a little more specific and well-defined, I'll outline my arguments. So please feel free to challenge/mock any of them.

    1/Freedom of choice
    2/Welfare and health of prostitutes
    3/Feminist position (I have a feeling the ladies are gonna grill me on this one  whistling2)
    4/Removing the social stigma
    5/Unfeasibility of a ban
    6/Forgot to say that it's not just women I'm talking about, men can be prostitutes. And this includes straight as well LGBT folks.
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #1 - March 31, 2010, 08:44 AM
    They are simply providing a service for lonely and/or fun-seeking people for cash. I dont see what exactly is the problem with prostitution; bear in mind both men and women partake in this business on both sides.

    The only moral objections are often from religious sides, who ironically have always have had various forms of prostitution as well at one time. To say that prostitution 'destroys' society, is both an over-simplification as well as a gross misunderstanding of this practice.

    Of course most people would not willingly take part in this business, mainly because of the stigma and taboo it has cumulated over the centuries because of religious self-righteous propaganda. Another irony is that the religious establishment have had their fair share in such practices despite public condemnation of it. Same with politicians.

    That said, the best way to deal with prostitution is to simply LEGALISE & REGULATE. The importance of medical, financial, social support for people in this line of work is VERY important for the benefit for all parties. The abuse and maltreatment of prostitutes by customers and pimps needs to be controlled.

    But unfortunately, this can only be accomplished in significantly secularised countries where religious clergy has no business or influence in public affairs.

    p.s. the dyke-looking sexually frustrated and bitter feminist activists need to get laid.  grin12
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #2 - March 31, 2010, 09:27 AM
    Quote from: atheist.pk on March 31, 2010, 08:44 AM
    The importance of medical, financial, social support for people in this line of work is VERY important for the benefit for all parties. The abuse and maltreatment of prostitutes by customers and pimps needs to be controlled.

     Afro

    BTW, I voted "legalize it and regulate it".
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #3 - March 31, 2010, 09:46 AM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on March 31, 2010, 09:27 AM
    Afro

    BTW, I voted "legalize it and regulate it".


    Same as.   Afro
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #4 - March 31, 2010, 09:47 AM
    Quote from: atheist.pk on March 31, 2010, 08:44 AM
    Of course most people would not willingly take part in this business, mainly because of the stigma and taboo it has cumulated over the centuries because of religious self-righteous propaganda.

    No. The reason most people would not willingly take part is because it feels like sexual abuse.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #5 - March 31, 2010, 10:10 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on March 31, 2010, 09:47 AM
    No. The reason most people would not willingly take part is because it feels like sexual abuse.

    You are quite right there, but that usually depends on the circumstances and terms between the two parties being crossed or not. Even in prostitution, CONSENT is a must in all cases. Hey if someone is into BDSM and has found someone who can provide that service, good for him/her.

    Reminds me of the South Park episode where Butters becomes a pimp.  Cheesy
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #6 - March 31, 2010, 10:13 AM
    You're missing the point. It's not so much a question of consent in the legal sense. The problem is that selling yourself feels like sexual abuse. That is the reason most people aren't prepared to do it unless they're in dire circumstances.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #7 - March 31, 2010, 10:15 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on March 31, 2010, 10:13 AM
    You're missing the point. It's not so much a question of consent in the legal sense. The problem is that selling yourself feels like sexual abuse. That is the reason most people aren't prepared to do it unless they're in dire circumstances.


    Would the same go for porn stars?  Like the ones who talk about how great it is when they are being interviewed? 
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #8 - March 31, 2010, 10:17 AM
    Dunno. Probably doesn't apply to everyone, but it applies to a hell of a lot of people. Most whores don't enjoy their work at all. They usually hate it.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #9 - March 31, 2010, 10:17 AM
    I understand what you mean. I respect such people who are willing to sell their bodies for others in search of some decent income. Rather than be regarded as the rejects of society, they are as part of the mainstream as the rest of us, only that they are braver to do what they do.
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #10 - March 31, 2010, 10:21 AM
    Quote from: BerberElla on March 31, 2010, 10:15 AM
    Would the same go for porn stars?  Like the ones who talk about how great it is when they are being interviewed? 

    Porn is different in the sense that everyone involved is essentially doing it as a performance for an audience rather than for themselves alone. Plus that given the fact that most people in porn are usually cool and smart folks (esp. the European girls) and since work in the industry is strictly regulated to keep in mind the personal health of each star, it is usually a lot safer than actual prostitution. Of course, for the benefit of the audience, one has to be really into the sex act to really make it as good as possible.

    For more info, I suggest to look at two very good porn industry documentaries "9to5 Days in Porn" and "Euro Porn Exposed".
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #11 - March 31, 2010, 10:21 AM
    The ones I knew, ended up selling themselves for crack, so I know they didn't enjoy it, all they wanted was the drugs.  Cry  Shame really.

    Wonder if the girl who made all the money selling her virginity online not so long ago felt sexually abused after though, or is the fee enough to take away that feeling?

    What makes the porn star selling sex feel better than the regular prostitute selling sex? 

    (just wondering if it's all a money thing)

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #12 - March 31, 2010, 10:23 AM
    Quote from: atheist.pk on March 31, 2010, 10:21 AM
    Porn is different in the sense that everyone involved is essentially doing it as a performance for an audience rather than for themselves alone. Plus that given the fact that most people in porn are usually cool and smart folks (esp. the European girls) and since work in the industry is strictly regulated to keep in mind the personal health of each star, it is usually a lot safer than actual prostitution. Of course, for the benefit of the audience, one has to be really into the sex act to really make it as good as possible.

    For more info, I suggest to look at two very good porn industry documentaries "9to5 Days in Porn" and "Euro Porn Exposed".


    So if regular prostitution was strictly regulated, could that in turn bring about women who are happier with prostitution as a valid career choice......should they want it?
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #13 - March 31, 2010, 10:27 AM
    It's regulated over here, and the vast majority of them still hate it. Does make it safer though.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #14 - March 31, 2010, 10:36 AM
    I dont know about that Berbs.

    At least in porn, all the action on camera is done between performers and artists (well...sex IS an art grin12 ) themselves. They know each other before hand, they are medically tested, and are often good professionals with each other. Plus they often have a say on who the porn star wants to perform a scene with. So there is definitely a degree of autonomy and comfort in a still challenging industry. I pity the men though, they always have to be ready and alert for as long as the scene is. I can imagine most new men to get 'stage fright' because of the camera and crew around. Its tough for the girls as well.

    Porn may be more controlled, but its not for the weak hearted.

    In prostitution, it all depends on how the customer is and behaves with the sex workers. There is always potential of the lonely/horny fellow getting too hyper and making a mess of things.
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #15 - March 31, 2010, 10:40 AM
    It's not just the threat of violence. There's also the fact that stalking is a common problem. Not to mention just general assholish behaviour making the whole thing more of a downer.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #16 - March 31, 2010, 11:37 AM
    Doesn't Holland have one of the highest rates of sex trafficking? I'm all for giving women the choice and making it safer but if it makes sex trafficking worse then I don't think the benefits are worth it at all. Any one have any good statistics on this subject?
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #17 - March 31, 2010, 02:15 PM
    atheist.pk, you know a lot about the porn industry   Wink I've heard that foreign students in the UK can work part time  whistling2


    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on March 31, 2010, 11:37 AM
    Doesn't Holland have one of the highest rates of sex trafficking? I'm all for giving women the choice and making it safer but if it makes sex trafficking worse then I don't think the benefits are worth it at all. Any one have any good statistics on this subject?

    I've heard that too. it's not a good argument for criminalization though. I don't see how a ban can halt trafficking.
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #18 - March 31, 2010, 02:26 PM
    My problem is whether legalising is actually increasing it, in which case we have a huge problem.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #19 - March 31, 2010, 02:27 PM
    I've always wanted to be a jigolo. Fat chicks need love too, but they gotta pay.
    Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 07:58 PM
    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #20 - March 31, 2010, 02:30 PM
    As long as all the participents are mentally capable adults who are there by their own will, then I don't have a problem with it. Might as well force them to try and prevent the spread of desease and tax them.
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #21 - March 31, 2010, 02:39 PM
    Why did we ban forms of consentual sex anywhere to begin with anyway? Legalize it. Though regulate it.

    I am against regulations normally, but when it comes to prostitution, I start leaning neolibertarian simply because I have to be pragmatic. USA already has a sex slavery and on top of the labor slavery problem, we don't need to legalize this form of slavery and make it be invisible like labor slavery is in this country.
    It is not the way you live your life that is important, it is how well you enjoy it that matters.
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #22 - March 31, 2010, 05:44 PM
    Its ok to have sex. Its ok to give a gift composed of money. Why is it wrong to exchange the two?

    Legalize it and regularize it.
    Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #23 - March 31, 2010, 05:52 PM
    I am for legalization with no regulation.

    Consenting adults should be able to do what they want with their bodies and they should be able to give money to whoever they want.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #24 - March 31, 2010, 06:17 PM
    I've always been a bit sceptical about prostitution, simply because I feel a lot of the women there are being exploited by pimps and truly do not enjoy their work but have no other choice. However the circumstances vary according to different individuals.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #25 - March 31, 2010, 06:55 PM
    Quote from: Iraqi Atheist on March 31, 2010, 02:15 PM
    atheist.pk, you know a lot about the porn industry   Wink I've heard that foreign students in the UK can work part time  whistling2

    dance
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #26 - March 31, 2010, 07:18 PM
    and while we are at the subject, here are streaming links for Euro Porn Exposed [NSFW because of nudity]

    http://www.movie-forumz.org/showthread.php?p=413327
    Pakistan Zindabad? ya Pakistan sey Zinda bhaag?

    Long Live Pakistan? Or run with your lives from Pakistan?
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #27 - March 31, 2010, 07:19 PM
    The problem with banning it is that you are attacking the supply side of the equation.  The demand for prostitutes has always existed and banning them won't make them go away it will only drive them to the shadows. I saw legalize it, regulate it if you need to, but definitely don't ban it.
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #28 - April 02, 2010, 03:35 PM
    Quote from: Heyjustlooking on March 31, 2010, 06:17 PM
    I've always been a bit sceptical about prostitution, simply because I feel a lot of the women there are being exploited by pimps and truly do not enjoy their work but have no other choice. However the circumstances vary according to different individuals.

    I don't see how that is a reason to oppose legalization. If you legalize and regulate it, prostitutes will be able to contact law enforcement without fearing getting arrested.
  • Re: Prostitution
     Reply #29 - April 02, 2010, 03:40 PM
    I didn't say I opposed it, I am kind of still sitting on the fence regarding the issue. I agree, if we legalise and regulate the service then prostitutes will have the law to protect them. I think I am more concerned on how strongly it will be regulated and with the safety of the workers than anything else.
    "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
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