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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Do you consider Strip Clubs and Pornography are things that exploit women?
  • Yes - 3 (16.7%)
  • No - 15 (83.3%)
  • Total Voters: 18

 Topic: Pornography, and Strip Clubs: Is it the exploitation of Women?

 (Read 7555 times)
  • Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Pornography, and Strip Clubs: Is it the exploitation of Women?
     Reply #30 - April 06, 2010, 11:14 AM

    Pornography, and Strip Clubs: Is it the exploitation of Men?
  • Re: Pornography, and Strip Clubs: Is it the exploitation of Women?
     Reply #31 - April 06, 2010, 11:21 AM

    I dunno about porn but I've always felt that lap dancing clubs are pure exploitation of men.  Then again, if consenting adult males are stupid enough to pay for being teased and not allowed to touch, its their money to waste.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Pornography, and Strip Clubs: Is it the exploitation of Women?
     Reply #32 - April 06, 2010, 11:31 AM

    Do you consider Strip Clubs and Pornography are things that exploit women?

    That depends on case by case basis.
    I completely disagree!

    "Degrading" is a word that implies a moral judgement. It might be degrading to you but to some it might even be empowering. Also it's extremely patronising to a priori assume that somebody is degrading themselves.

    Have you ever heard of Danni Ashe - a successful businesswoman and a pornstar. Or even Ovidie - she is a radical feminist and a pornstar. Read her "Porno Manifesto" before you make moral judgements like you just did.



    They are degraded of course because they are seen as 'just a piece of ass'. I'm not saying that can't be profitable. A popular comedic style includes self-degradation, and that rakes in tons of money. Just because something is degrading doesn't mean it must be stopped, if it is freely entered in to.

    Kenan I think our continued differences, and I see it as a pattern in the forum, is that you guys are lumping separate issues together and moving for conclusion too quickly, and that usually involves some (false) assumptions.

    A great example is the pedophile issue. Determining whether Muhammad was an actual pedophile and whether or not child marriage should be allowed are two separate issues. Most of the responders couldn't wrap their heads around that.

    It is in the interest of Ex-Muslims to degrade/misrepresent Islam, only the best of them will escape the group mentality and become closest to objectivity.

    You asked me not to rush to judgment, but isn't that what you did? I think you were assuming that I had a conservative view on the issue perhaps? That is yet another symptom of being an 'Ex-Muslim', it is to be in rebellion against Islam and that often means rebellion against conservatism. I point these things out but I think that all I will get are fingers pointed back at me in a fit of 'Ex-Muslim cognitive dissonance'. : )

    Assalamu alaykum  
  • Re: Pornography, and Strip Clubs: Is it the exploitation of Women?
     Reply #33 - April 06, 2010, 11:35 AM

    But I recently met a Feminist (the hardcore, in your face type) who asked me that very question. I of course said no, and she pretty much lashed out on me.  Roll Eyes

    Next ime you meet her tell her about Ovidie:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovidie
  • Re: Pornography, and Strip Clubs: Is it the exploitation of Women?
     Reply #34 - April 06, 2010, 11:35 AM

    I think you should stop with your constant, and always negative, carping at any and everyone who has left their religion and/or doesn't agree with you, IM.  Its tiresome, and it invites the very response you decry.

    Just deal with the contents of people's posts and stop making personal judgements on the posters.  People are entitled to their opinions without you putting them into lazy pigeonholes.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Pornography, and Strip Clubs: Is it the exploitation of Women?
     Reply #35 - April 06, 2010, 11:42 AM

    I dunno about porn but I've always felt that lap dancing clubs are pure exploitation of men.  Then again, if consenting adult males are stupid enough to pay for being teased and not allowed to touch, its their money to waste.

    I meant the men who strip/act in porn. I'm fed up with people constantly asking whether it's degrading to women and completely ignore the fact that men are also involved. Of course there are those who make excuses that men enjoy it more but women are more vulnerable Roll Eyes

    Agree with your point about lap dancing. Same can be said for prostitution really. The exploitation works both ways.
  • Re: Pornography, and Strip Clubs: Is it the exploitation of Women?
     Reply #36 - April 06, 2010, 11:46 AM

    At least with prostitution the man is having sex in return for his money though.  Even with porn, he can either masturbate, or in some cases couples will be watching it together to spice up their sex life or whatever.  Lap dancing just seems completely pointless - like going into a restaurant, paying for a nice meal and not being allowed to eat it. 

    I agree with your point about porn actors/actresses, it is based on a double standard.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Pornography, and Strip Clubs: Is it the exploitation of Women?
     Reply #37 - April 06, 2010, 11:54 AM

    They are degraded of course because they are seen as 'just a piece of ass'.

    The whole point of my post was that this is untrue. Do you think Ovidie sees herself as a piece of meat only? Or Danni Ashe?
    The very basis of your assumption is flawed.
    You are mixing up particular and universal.
     
    And again you are using "they are seen" indicating some sort of consensus rather than "I see them".

    For example when somebody claims that old Mo is seen as a paedo by some that does not necessarily make him a paedo does it?

    This whole issue was in fact already debated here:
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=7052.msg178238#msg178238

    Tailor's response:
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=7052.msg178486#msg178486

    Do have a look please.

    Kenan I think our continued differences, and I see it as a pattern in the forum, is that you guys are lumping separate issues together and moving for conclusion too quickly, and that usually involves some (false) assumptions.

    First of all I am an individual and my point of view is my own. There is no "you guys".

    Also the problem I see with your reasoning is that you are too concerned with the obvious and are quick to disregard the underlying issues. These things are not simple.

    As far as your conclusion that I falsely though of you as having a conservative viewpoint goes. Well, this is precisely the issue I was referring to above.
    Your viewpoint is intrinsically problematic because it forces a moral judgment upon others.
  • Re: Pornography, and Strip Clubs: Is it the exploitation of Women?
     Reply #38 - April 06, 2010, 01:59 PM

    They are degraded of course because they are seen as 'just a piece of ass'. I'm not saying that can't be profitable. A popular comedic style includes self-degradation, and that rakes in tons of money. Just because something is degrading doesn't mean it must be stopped, if it is freely entered in to.




    So do you consider sex degrading? Pornography is just a sex tape. The same things women give consent to in the bedroom in their personal lives are the same things they give consent to in their career. They are getting paid - a female pornstar who's a highschool dropout will make more money than a doctor within her first year - and they are giving consent. What is so degrading here?




    A great example is the pedophile issue. Determining whether Muhammad was an actual pedophile and whether or not child marriage should be allowed are two separate issues. Most of the responders couldn't wrap their heads around that.



    It's not a separate issue in Mohammed's case. His religion promotes getting married to have sexual intercourse. If his religion allowed pre-marital sex then you may have a point, but since it doesn't, it's important to lump those together since they go hand in hand.

    And Mo. was def. a pedo.



    It is in the interest of Ex-Muslims to degrade/misrepresent Islam, only the best of them will escape the group mentality and become closest to objectivity.


    So I'm guessing you did a PHD on us ex-Muslims did ya?



    You asked me not to rush to judgment, but isn't that what you did? I think you were assuming that I had a conservative view on the issue perhaps? That is yet another symptom of being an 'Ex-Muslim', it is to be in rebellion against Islam and that often means rebellion against conservatism. I point these things out but I think that all I will get are fingers pointed back at me in a fit of 'Ex-Muslim cognitive dissonance'. : )

    Assalamu alaykum  


    What does Islam have to do with political conservatism, other than the fact that Islam is parallel to Fascism? If you mean that we as ex-Muslims are against Fascism, then I believe most would agree, but you don't have to be an ex-Muslim to jump on that wagon.

    At least with prostitution the man is having sex in return for his money though.  Even with porn, he can either masturbate, or in some cases couples will be watching it together to spice up their sex life or whatever.  Lap dancing just seems completely pointless - like going into a restaurant, paying for a nice meal and not being allowed to eat it.  

    I agree with your point about porn actors/actresses, it is based on a double standard.


    You have an excellent point about lap dances Cheetah, but strip clubs really just serve as a place to get together with your male friends (mostly) and just socialize. I don't take it as the exploitation of Men, if they choose to get lap dances. I say this because of the fact that they make that choice. But I do agree that it's a waste of money - precisely why I stopped going to strip clubs.

    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Pornography, and Strip Clubs: Is it the exploitation of Women?
     Reply #39 - April 06, 2010, 05:31 PM

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    A Ladies underwear shop opened recently in Saudi Arabia

    good stuff.. good pictures..



    OMFG!!!

     Cheesy Cheesy

    JOTM!!!

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Pornography, and Strip Clubs: Is it the exploitation of Women?
     Reply #40 - April 06, 2010, 05:49 PM

    What is JOTM?

    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: Pornography, and Strip Clubs: Is it the exploitation of Women?
     Reply #41 - April 06, 2010, 05:51 PM

    jester of the month

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Pornography, and Strip Clubs: Is it the exploitation of Women?
     Reply #42 - April 06, 2010, 05:51 PM

    Makes sense. Thanks.

    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Previous page 1 2« Previous thread | Next thread »