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 Topic: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...

 (Read 5940 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     OP - April 06, 2010, 11:08 AM
    And if the afterlife is more important than mortal life...
    Then, killing babies is an altruistic act: you give them a sure ticket directly to heaven.

    Is there a way to escape such logic?
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #1 - April 06, 2010, 11:10 AM
    Nope. That is the most moral thing you could do. Some Christians have tried to get around it by saying they will face a different test.  Dunno the muslim excuse though.
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #2 - April 06, 2010, 11:11 AM
    Quote from: PeruvianSkies on April 06, 2010, 11:10 AM
    Nope. That is the most moral thing you could do. Some Christians have tried to get around it by saying they will face a different test.  Dunno the muslim excuse though.

    Technically, it doesn't work that well with Christianity.
    Unless you are sure the baby has been baptized.

    Not baptized -> Original sin is still there -> No guaranteed heaven.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #3 - April 06, 2010, 11:12 AM
    So it depends on what flavor of Christianity you're dealing with.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #4 - April 06, 2010, 11:12 AM
    The only problem is that you may sacrifice your own hereafter due to these unjustified killings. Who cares if anyone else is going to Heaven if your not?
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #5 - April 06, 2010, 11:13 AM
    Didn't the Catholic church drop the whole purgatory idea fairly recently due to the ethical problems with babies being too embarrassing for them?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #6 - April 06, 2010, 11:18 AM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on April 06, 2010, 11:08 AM
    And if the afterlife is more important than mortal life...
    Then, killing babies is an altruistic act: you give them a sure ticket directly to heaven.

    Is there a way to escape such logic?

    Actually I just realised that this would make Swift's "modest proposal" ethical as well as practical.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #7 - April 06, 2010, 11:19 AM
    No, purgatory still exists, (yes it really does  Smiley).  Its limbo that got dropped.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #8 - April 06, 2010, 11:23 AM
    Ok. Knew it was one of them. So limbo was where all the unbaptised babies went until recently (when the Vatican informed God that limbo had to go).
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #9 - April 06, 2010, 11:24 AM
    Quote from: IslamMythology on April 06, 2010, 11:12 AM
    The only problem is that you may sacrifice your own hereafter due to these unjustified killings. Who cares if anyone else is going to Heaven if your not?

    Exactly.

    But, if you couple this with the other notion that some Muslims have that "as long as you have some faith in your heart, you will eventually be pulled out of Hell to end up in Heaven"...
    TADA!
    You're trading some limited time in hell for you for an unlimited amount of time in heaven for every baby you kill.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #10 - April 06, 2010, 11:26 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 06, 2010, 11:23 AM
    Ok. Knew it was one of them. So limbo was where all the unbaptised babies went until recently (when the Vatican informed God that limbo had to go).


    That's right.  The Pope told God to let unbaptised babies into Heaven, and God had to play ball.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #11 - April 06, 2010, 11:28 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on April 06, 2010, 11:19 AM
    No, purgatory still exists, (yes it really does  Smiley).  Its limbo that got dropped.

    Are you sure the Catholic church claims purgatory exists, dogmatically?

    Both when I had to endure Catechism as a kid and when I studied medieval literature during high school (like Dante's Purgatorio), I was taught that the concept of Purgatory is not officially recognized by the Catholic church, but it was fruit of medieval mythology.

    I always forgot to dig out more info about it
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #12 - April 06, 2010, 11:30 AM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on April 06, 2010, 11:24 AM
    Exactly.

    But, if you couple this with the other notion that some Muslims have that "as long as you have some faith in your heart, you will eventually be pulled out of Hell to end up in Heaven"...
    TADA!
    You're trading some limited time in hell for you for an unlimited amount of time in heaven for every baby you kill.

    But does it work for other religions? I mean if you're Buddhist there is no hell anyway. You can kill shitloads of babies as long as you do your meditation and get to nirvana. It's all in what your attitude is while you are killing them.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #13 - April 06, 2010, 11:31 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on April 06, 2010, 11:26 AM
    That's right.  The Pope told God to let unbaptised babies into Heaven, and God had to play ball.

    Nobody fucks with teh pope.  cool2
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #14 - April 06, 2010, 11:32 AM
    @Tlaloc - Purgatory is still in the Catechism...

    Quote
    The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a "purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," which is experienced by those "who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified" (CCC 1030). It notes that "this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned" (CCC 1031).


    http://www.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #15 - April 06, 2010, 11:32 AM
    Oh, I wish I had the internet back then when I was a teenager.

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2N.HTM

    Quote
    The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.604  The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. the tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:


    I would have pwned my teachers!!!
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #16 - April 06, 2010, 11:36 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on April 06, 2010, 11:32 AM
    @Tlaloc - Purgatory is still in the Catechism...

    http://www.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp

    Yeah, they lied to me, as usual ^_^
    Like when they told me that Muslims go to heaven just cause they believed in the same God as the Christians Grin

    But maybe it's a good thing that they don't teach kids the REAL Catholic dogmas, so they don't grow up being a bunch of religious zealots :|
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #17 - April 06, 2010, 11:39 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on April 06, 2010, 11:19 AM
    No, purgatory still exists, (yes it really does  Smiley).  Its limbo that got dropped.

    By the way, how did they drop Limbo?

    If unbaptized people go to Hell, it's not fair.
    If unbaptized people go to Heaven, you have to drop the dogma of Original Sin otherwise Jesus dying for our sins is useless.
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #18 - April 06, 2010, 11:39 AM
    OMFG, I made the mistake of reading that drivel. So mortal sins are automatically forgiven, but you still have to be tortured a bit to get rid of the venial sins. Wouldn't it be more logical to forgive the venial sins automatically (hey, why sweat the small stuff) and require a bit of torture for the mortal sins?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #19 - April 06, 2010, 11:41 AM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on April 06, 2010, 11:39 AM
    By the way, how did they drop Limbo?

    If unbaptized people go to Hell, it's not fair.
    If unbaptized people go to Heaven, you have to drop the dogma of Original Sin otherwise Jesus dying for our sins is useless.

    Stop asking difficult questions, ok?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #20 - April 06, 2010, 11:43 AM
    They get around it by a bit of hand waving....

    http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=21542

     Roll Eyes
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #21 - April 06, 2010, 11:45 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 06, 2010, 11:30 AM
    But does it work for other religions? I mean if you're Buddhist there is no hell anyway. You can kill shitloads of babies as long as you do your meditation and get to nirvana. It's all in what your attitude is while you are killing them.

    Well, according to the "saved by deeds" denominations of Christianity, you'd likely end up in Hell by killing babies.
    According to the "saved by grace alone" ones, you'd end up in Heaven as long as you have faith when you die.
    According to Calvinists, you killing babies is the proof that you were not destined to Heaven since you were created.

    According to Scientology, you become Xenu's lieutenant ^_^
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #22 - April 06, 2010, 11:47 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on April 06, 2010, 11:43 AM
    They get around it by a bit of hand waving....

    http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=21542

     Roll Eyes

    Summarizing: "God knows best"!!!!!!!11111 ^_^
    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #23 - April 06, 2010, 11:50 AM
    Quote from: Tlaloc on April 06, 2010, 11:45 AM
    Well, according to the "saved by deeds" denominations of Christianity, you'd likely end up in Hell by killing babies.

    Not if you sincerely repent before you snuff it. As long as you get that bit right you can massacre all the babies you like.  Headsman


    Quote
    According to the "saved by grace alone" ones, you'd end up in Heaven as long as you have faith when you die.

    Even better. You don't even have to repent. You just have to believe. Awesome.  dance


    Quote
    According to Calvinists, you killing babies is the proof that you were not destined to Heaven since you were created.

    Ok, let's give Calvinism a miss then. Doesn't sound like any fun at all. Tongue


    Quote
    According to Scientology, you become Xenu's lieutenant ^_^

    plan
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #24 - April 06, 2010, 11:56 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on April 06, 2010, 11:43 AM
    They get around it by a bit of hand waving....

    http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=21542

     Roll Eyes

    Well that was a lot of fluff and nonsense. Beats me how anyone could take that crap seriously.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #25 - April 06, 2010, 11:58 AM
    The videogame Dante's Inferno is a good thing to reflect on. Droves of people being tortured in hell for eternity, unbaptised babies. "gawd damn God is a sadistic cunt."
    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #26 - April 06, 2010, 09:26 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on April 06, 2010, 11:50 AM
    Not if you sincerely repent before you snuff it. As long as you get that bit right you can massacre all the babies you like.  Headsman


    This emoticon does not seem to be among the ones we can choose from.

    Couldn´t you please import it or upload it or whatever the expression is ?

    TY in advance
    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #27 - April 06, 2010, 09:32 PM
    Paloma, if you click on [more] next to the smileys when you're posting, another page will open with a bunch of other smileys. That one is in there Smiley
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #28 - April 06, 2010, 09:49 PM

    Thank you Allat.

    Actually. before posting the above, I scrolled through the more page twice and could not see it, but I agree, it is there now.

    Weird !

    Like a compass needle that points north, a man?s accusing finger always finds a woman. Always.

    Khaled Hosseini - A thousand splendid suns.
  • Re: IF babies are "pure" and go to heaven...
     Reply #29 - April 06, 2010, 09:51 PM
    I might edit the template to make the [more] link bold. Smiley
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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