Slaves of Allah?

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #30 - April 11, 2010, 08:48 AM

Do you mean "makes NO such claim" ??

In any case, good luck and I am happy that you have found your calling.

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #31 - April 11, 2010, 08:56 AM

Quote from: z10 on April 11, 2010, 08:48 AM
Do you mean "makes NO such claim" ??

Oops, corrected it just then

Quote
In any case, good luck and I am happy that you have found your calling.

Yeap, starting a new phase in my life should be interesting and joining a new community although funny enough some of my Muslim friends are confused; I guess they were hoping I would join 'team Islam' lol

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #32 - April 11, 2010, 09:07 AM

If it leads you to wisdom and enlightenment then please do return and share your secrets

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #33 - April 11, 2010, 09:20 AM

His posts don't suggest that's likely.

Quoted for posterity:

Quote from: kaiwai
Or just re-enforces what the Tanach describes the Arabs as in Gensis 16:11-12

11 "And an angel of Hashem said to her, "Behold, you will conceive, and give birth to a son; you shall name him Ishmael, for Hashem has heard your prayer."

12 "And he shall be a wild-ass of a man; his hand against everyone, and everyone's hand against him; and over all his brothers shall he dwell"

Which describes the Arab Islamic mind set quite well given the way Muslims behave - thousands of years before the rise of Islam a lone writer could see what an uncivilised cunt would rise forth out of the primordial ooze of Beduin tribes.

That the religion he wants to follow might have origins in that 'primordial ooze' and therefore the tanakh may well have been written by 'uncivilized cunts' [the ironing..] obviously hasn't occurred to him.

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #34 - April 11, 2010, 09:29 AM

Yes but, panoptic, everyone starts somewhere

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #35 - April 11, 2010, 10:01 AM

Quote from: z10 on April 11, 2010, 09:07 AM
If it leads you to wisdom and enlightenment then please do return and share your secrets

Most of the books I have are more along the lines of the orthodox Jewish tradition but they still hold value even for someone sitting on the liberal end of the spectrum; 'Radical then, Radical now' by Jonathan Sacks is a great starting point. Not all of it I agree with but it does provoke me to think about things deeper and from different angles.

Quote from: panoptic on April 11, 2010, 09:20 AM
His posts don't suggest that's likely.

Quoted for posterity:

That the religion he wants to follow might have origins in that 'primordial ooze' and therefore the tanakh may well have been written by 'uncivilized cunts' [the ironing..] obviously hasn't occurred to him.

The difference is that I don't see mainstream Jews practicing forced marriage, female genital mutilation, wife beating, calling for religious law, and so on. Yet I look at Muslim countries across the spectrum carrying out such behaviour. Notice the startling difference anyone? or is it apparently 'me' who doesn't get the 'subtle nuances' of 'muslim society'?

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #36 - April 11, 2010, 10:15 AM

Quote from: kaiwai on April 11, 2010, 10:01 AM
The difference is that I don't see mainstream Jews practicing forced marriage, female genital mutilation, wife beating, calling for religious law, and so on. Yet I look at Muslim countries across the spectrum carrying out such behaviour. Notice the startling difference anyone? or is it apparently 'me' who doesn't get the 'subtle nuances' of 'muslim society'?

(ohhh.. I see what you did there...)

FGM, wife beating, forced marriage, people who want religious law - all those exist in many different cultures, including Judaic culture.

But no amount of those things existing makes it ok for outright racist **** like you came out with.

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #37 - April 11, 2010, 11:14 AM

Quote from: panoptic on April 11, 2010, 10:15 AM
(ohhh.. I see what you did there...)

FGM, wife beating, forced marriage, people who want religious law - all those exist in many different cultures, including Judaic culture.

But no amount of those things existing makes it ok for outright racist **** like you came out with.

Please show me to the post where I made a racist comment.

btw, culture doesn't equal race and race doesn't equal culture.

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #38 - April 11, 2010, 05:35 PM

Quote from: kaiwai on April 11, 2010, 07:58 AM
Still plodding my way through the books; if I do convert (98.9% likelihood), it'll be reform or reconstructionist Judaism.

But you are an atheist at the moment? What lead you to be convinced that there is a God, and its not just a construct of human imagination?

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #39 - April 11, 2010, 05:40 PM

Quote from: kaiwai on April 11, 2010, 07:58 AM
Still plodding my way through the books; if I do convert (98.9% likelihood), it'll be reform or reconstructionist Judaism.

I don't think you should do it Kaiwai. I mean its your choice of course, but converting to reconstructionist Judaism is very stupid IMO. Why would you even want to do that? I believe the whole reform Judaism thing is watered down and dishonest.

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #40 - April 11, 2010, 05:49 PM

yep, also why are you so insistent needing to belong to a group. You seem to be always caught up in this loop.

And if you are are prepared to believe in reform Judaism, why dont you just believe in Kawaism or are you really after a book to believe in?

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #41 - April 11, 2010, 06:36 PM

All religions are BS! End of story..... at least for me.

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #42 - April 11, 2010, 07:38 PM

Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 05:49 PM
yep, also why are you so insistent needing to belong to a group. You seem to be always caught up in this loop.

And if you are are prepared to believe in reform Judaism, why dont you just believe in Kawaism or are you really after a book to believe in?

I had a basic glimpse at reform/reconstructionist Judaism and its so watered down its not even Judaism. Its such a pointless thing to do. I have a feeling this is going to be like when he converted to Alevi Islam for around 2 weeks then left. Kaiwai, do yourself a favour and don't do it.

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
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"I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #43 - April 11, 2010, 07:52 PM

whats their view on God, & heaven & hell?

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #44 - April 11, 2010, 07:55 PM

Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 07:52 PM
whats their view on God, & heaven & hell?

There is no heaven or hell in their belief. And if you don't believe in any God or anything supernatural, you can still be a member, and many reconstructionist Jews are atheists.

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
~Sir Richard Francis Burton

"I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #45 - April 11, 2010, 08:25 PM

what a waste of time

If there is no God, and the books are not necessarily seen as divinely inspired, then why bother, apart from some desire to garner a sense of belongingness?

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #46 - April 11, 2010, 08:27 PM

Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 08:25 PM
what a waste of time

If there is no God, and the books are not necessarily seen as divinely inspired, then why bother, apart from some desire to garner a sense of belongingness?

I think thats the only reason why one would want to join IMO. To belong with a group of people.

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
~Sir Richard Francis Burton

"I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #47 - April 11, 2010, 08:37 PM

why do you think, according to Maslow, that we have this innate desire for a sense of belongingness?

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #48 - April 11, 2010, 08:49 PM

Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 08:37 PM
why do you think, according to Maslow, that we have this innate desire for a sense of belongingness?

I dunno lol

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself."
~Sir Richard Francis Burton

"I think religion is just like smoking: Both invented by people, addictive, harmful, and kills!"
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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #49 - April 12, 2010, 12:05 AM

Quote from: Cool Canadian on April 11, 2010, 07:38 PM
I had a basic glimpse at reform/reconstructionist Judaism and its so watered down its not even Judaism. Its such a pointless thing to do. I have a feeling this is going to be like when he converted to Alevi Islam for around 2 weeks then left. Kaiwai, do yourself a favour and don't do it.

There is something wrong with experimenting? the only people who seem to get threatened by those who experiment are either hard core adherence to a given movement or people such as yourself. My interest in Judaism as been an on going thing for around 3-4 years, so it hardly something that came up at the last minute.

Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 07:52 PM
whats their view on God, & heaven & hell?

Well the obviously first one is yes to God's existence but there is debate as to the existence of heaven and hell. All but the hard core Christians believe in a hell of fire and brimstone in favour of the more benign 'separation from God' akin to solitary confinement.

Quote from: Cool Canadian on April 11, 2010, 07:55 PM
There is no heaven or hell in their belief. And if you don't believe in any God or anything supernatural, you can still be a member, and many reconstructionist Jews are atheists.

I don't know about reconstructionist but reform Jews have differing understands of the nature of God - so it isn't a black and white picture.

Regarding joining a group; for me it has less to do with joining a group and more to do spirituality - if 'joining a group' a was important then I've already signed up for so many groups at university I have to ask myself whether I have enough time for me. So 'I want to belong to a group' doesn't apply in my situation.

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Re: Slaves of Allah?
Reply #50 - April 12, 2010, 12:22 AM

Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 05:49 PM
But you are an atheist at the moment? What lead you to be convinced that there is a God, and its not just a construct of human imagination?

Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 05:49 PM
yep, also why are you so insistent needing to belong to a group. You seem to be always caught up in this loop.

And if you are are prepared to believe in reform Judaism, why dont you just believe in Kawaism or are you really after a book to believe in?

But you are an atheist at the moment? What lead you to be convinced that there is a God, and its not just a construct of human imagination?

And this?

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