Men

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Re: Men
Reply #60 - April 11, 2010, 11:54 PM

Quote from: thinkfree on April 11, 2010, 11:41 PM
It affects men differently because another set of pressures are applied to coerce them into marriages they do not want. I don't accept the false dichotomy inferred by your question that because many issues faced by men in islam are also faced by women that they should automatically be amalgamated under the category of women in islam.

lol - You are presenting the false dichotomy, and then saying I am supporting it. I didnt say this issue should be put under women in Islam. You can put these under religion if it doesnt specifically apply to women. Islam is an all inclusive ideology. It treats everyone shittily.

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It's not very different from arguing that UK news is still news and technically the UK is part of the rest of the world so it should all be part of the same sub-forum.

This is because this forum disproportinately gets news from UK, and some might not be interested in hearing it. But nevertheless I agree with a separate section on the basis thats its not exclusive to men because its a niche and might generate more interest in this forum.

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The point is that they are experienced from a male perspective, with which other males can relate. It's nice that there is now an area where ex-muslim (or muslim) men can easily access information and ideas relating to their experience of islam without having to sift through countless threads relating to the mistreatment of women. I think that makes it a useful resource, regardless of popularity.

+1

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Re: Men
Reply #61 - April 12, 2010, 12:20 AM

Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 11:54 PM
lol - You are presenting the false dichotomy, and then saying I am supporting it. I didnt say this issue should be put under women in Islam.

I apologise if that is not what you inferred.
Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 11:54 PM
You can put these under religion if it doesnt specifically apply to women. Islam is an all inclusive ideology. It treats everyone shittily.

If islam "treats everyone shittily" then there is no point in the women in islam sub-forum, unless you arbitrarily consider the issues experienced by one gender as more deserving of consideration than the other. To be honest I think we could split hairs for a while longer about whether you or I think there should be a sub-forum for both genders, each gender or one gender. However, since neither of us seem to be in a position of responsibility in this regard, I think it would be a waste of both our time and energy. I agree to disagree on this point.

Quote from: IsLame on April 11, 2010, 11:54 PM
This is because this forum disproportinately gets news from UK, and some might not be interested in hearing it. But nevertheless I agree with a separate section on the basis thats its not exclusive to men because its a niche and might generate more interest in this forum.
+1

Let's hope it does create that interest and hopefully even gets a few muslim guys considering a different perspective.

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Re: Men
Reply #62 - April 12, 2010, 12:33 AM

Why can't people just say "sex" these days? We are talking about two sexes. Gender is a grammatical term that does not relate to physical sexuality. Nobody talks about gender in relation to any other species.

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Re: Men
Reply #63 - April 12, 2010, 12:35 AM

Sex!

Sexy!

Sexy time!
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Re: Men
Reply #64 - April 12, 2010, 07:24 AM

Quote from: thinkfree on April 11, 2010, 08:24 PM
The problem is that they project these ideas onto the entire male gender within free societies where they are in a minority.

And they influence the thinking of those non muslim males around them. or at least that is the way it is appearing to me.

In their effort to control my teenage sister before she ran away, it wasn't only my brothers muslims friends dragging her home if they caught her out, the non muslim boys who hang around with them, were also conscripted into the duty of controlling her, and having spoken to these guys, I know their mind has now leaned towards seeing good girls, as ones who stay at home wearing hijabs, and stay purer than the non muslim "slags" they like to view the world in.

I even got into a debate with my brothers british carribean friend, who was bemoaning how slutty girls dressed, and how they lacked modesty. All of this, because he spends far too much time with muslim males.

This attitude spreads and infects people, who let's face it, weren't entirely educated away from a way of thinking that wasn't so long ago, the way every male thought in this country anyway.

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Re: Men
Reply #65 - April 12, 2010, 08:45 AM

Being a man raised by a single, feminist mother, i cant relate to men who want an obedient wife or women.

Whats the point of a relationship, if one half is not allowed to speak its mind? I want my girlfriend/wife to tell me when im talking bullshit, or i am about to make a mistake.

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Re: Men
Reply #66 - April 12, 2010, 05:39 PM

^ that. I can't stand submissive, do whatever I want and never talk back to me women. Boring.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
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Re: Men
Reply #67 - April 12, 2010, 06:31 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on April 12, 2010, 07:24 AM
And they influence the thinking of those non muslim males around them. or at least that is the way it is appearing to me.

In their effort to control my teenage sister before she ran away, it wasn't only my brothers muslims friends dragging her home if they caught her out, the non muslim boys who hang around with them, were also conscripted into the duty of controlling her, and having spoken to these guys, I know their mind has now leaned towards seeing good girls, as ones who stay at home wearing hijabs, and stay purer than the non muslim "slags" they like to view the world in.

I even got into a debate with my brothers british carribean friend, who was bemoaning how slutty girls dressed, and how they lacked modesty. All of this, because he spends far too much time with muslim males.

This attitude spreads and infects people, who let's face it, weren't entirely educated away from a way of thinking that wasn't so long ago, the way every male thought in this country anyway.

That's interesting.

I think that might be worthy of a whole thread for discussion, if there are ways that proximity to Islam changes or coarsens attitudes in response, without actual acts of conversion.

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Re: Men
Reply #68 - April 12, 2010, 06:48 PM

I've heard from a couple of sources that even areas of Europe that were once under Islamic control exhibit a number of cultural traits (arguably) derived from this.
Basically southern Spain (but not Northern Spain) and Sicily.

This means a macho honour culture - with the Mafia being an example of this
(even up to killing "apostates", requiring a jizya)

Also, it is more common to call people by the name of the principle character of the religion (Jesus).
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Re: Men
Reply #69 - April 16, 2010, 01:42 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqXi8WmQ_WM&feature=player_embedded#!

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